Manchester Derby - FA Cup edition

[SA_Gunslinger]

I know there's some other soccer fans on here....anyone get up to watch this morning? That match had lots of drama! Rooney stepping up in a week of rumors about him, the return of Scholes (did NOT see that one coming), a straight red card (harsh....probably should have been yellow), City putting on one heck of a fight in the second half (aided greatly by a huge Lindegaard blunder), someone for city with a massively bloodied face thanks to an errant Evra elbow.... shoot, it even had ex-United legends Beckham and Keane in the crowd.

What a match! Can't wait for these two to go at it again in the EPL.

 

[csirl]

United looked like a relegation zone team in the Newcastle and Blackburn games. FA Cup has lost its prestige in recent years - not sure that the PL teams put much effort into it, so I dont know how much you can read into the result.

I think the United era is over - City will win the PL this season (P.S. I'm not a City fan). As United are having difficulties in replacing some of their aging players and Ferguson is close to retirement, I think the future is bleak for United.

 

[Phoenix]

I saw the second half of the fixture and greatly enjoyed it.

But how about Thierry Henry yesterday with Arsenal? WOW!

 

[SA_Gunslinger]

When you are the richest sports franchise in the entire world, the future is never bleak.

:starspin

 

[csirl]

When you are the richest sports franchise in the entire world, the future is never bleak.

:starspin

Manchester United = Tampa Bay.

They are essentially the same franchise now. Its no coincidence that neither has been spending cash on players recently. Their fortunes will rise and fall in tandem.

 

[SA_Gunslinger]

Manchester United = Tampa Bay.

They are essentially the same franchise now. Its no coincidence that neither has been spending cash on players recently. Their fortunes will rise and fall in tandem.

Just b/c they are owned by the same people doesn't make them even close to the same. How those two sports operate are not even remotely similar. And you don't need to buy players all the time when you have a youth pipeline like United does. That being said, I guess you missed the signings of say Young and Jones this summer.

Not to mention, United was raising a trophy 8 months ago, as opposed to a decade ago. They're in second place by 3 points with a half a season to go, for pete's sake. I'm pretty sure the other powerhouse clubs like Arsenal or Liverpool, or even Chelsea for that matter would trade places with them in a heartbeat. If this is what a downward trend looks like, then bring it on.



Get a clue man.

 

[daschoo]

Just b/c they are owned by the same people doesn't make them even close to the same. How those two sports operate are not even remotely similar. And you don't need to buy players all the time when you have a youth pipeline like United does. That being said, I guess you missed the signings of say Young and Jones this summer.

Not to mention, United was raising a trophy 8 months ago, as opposed to a decade ago. They're in second place by 3 points with a half a season to go, for pete's sake. I'm pretty sure the other powerhouse clubs like Arsenal or Liverpool, or even Chelsea for that matter would trade places with them in a heartbeat. If this is what a downward trend looks like, then bring it on.



Get a clue man.

the pipeline can't be that great if they're having to bring a 37 year old out of retirement and he gets on the park a day later. doesn't say much for the young midfielders at the club

 

[csirl]

Just b/c they are owned by the same people doesn't make them even close to the same. How those two sports operate are not even remotely similar. And you don't need to buy players all the time when you have a youth pipeline like United does. That being said, I guess you missed the signings of say Young and Jones this summer.

Not to mention, United was raising a trophy 8 months ago, as opposed to a decade ago. They're in second place by 3 points with a half a season to go, for pete's sake. I'm pretty sure the other powerhouse clubs like Arsenal or Liverpool, or even Chelsea for that matter would trade places with them in a heartbeat. If this is what a downward trend looks like, then bring it on.



Get a clue man.

You may have missed United getting knocked out at the group stages of the Champions League thus meaning they will have no top class competitive football until next season (assuming they qualify).

I live in Europe so I get to see all the major CL & PL games. I've seen a lot of Man U games - Jones looks like a complete bust and this is not just my opinion - it is the opinion of most of the TV pundits and journalists in Europe who cover the CL/PL. Ashley Young has always been and always will be an average PL player. Neither Jones or Young have become regular starters in competitive International games. Due to Jones particularly poor run of form in recent weeks, a lot of the commentators are saying he has no chance of making Englands preliminary squad for Euro 2012.

One of the reasons I am predicting the demise of Man U over the next couple of years is the lack of new talent coming into the club. They are still over reliant on certain players who are in their mid-30s. There are no replacements for these players and Man U doesnt seem to have the funds to compete for world class players any more. I also see Man U having a poor finish to the season as they do not have enough depth (in talent terms rather than numbers) to cope with losing a number of players to injury.

As for youth systems - the days of throwing 18 year old rookies into CL or PL games are long gone. To win the CL (or even the PL) you need a full squad of world class players who are regular starters for their country in competitive Internationals.

 

[daschoo]

You may have missed United getting knocked out at the group stages of the Champions League thus meaning they will have no top class competitive football until next season (assuming they qualify).

I live in Europe so I get to see all the major CL & PL games. I've seen a lot of Man U games - Jones looks like a complete bust and this is not just my opinion - it is the opinion of most of the TV pundits and journalists in Europe who cover the CL/PL. Ashley Young has always been and always will be an average PL player. Neither Jones or Young have become regular starters in competitive International games. Due to Jones particularly poor run of form in recent weeks, a lot of the commentators are saying he has no chance of making Englands preliminary squad for Euro 2012.

One of the reasons I am predicting the demise of Man U over the next couple of years is the lack of new talent coming into the club. They are still over reliant on certain players who are in their mid-30s. There are no replacements for these players and Man U doesnt seem to have the funds to compete for world class players any more. I also see Man U having a poor finish to the season as they do not have enough depth (in talent terms rather than numbers) to cope with losing a number of players to injury.

As for youth systems - the days of throwing 18 year old rookies into CL or PL games are long gone. To win the CL (or even the PL) you need a full squad of world class players who are regular starters for their country in competitive Internationals.

I've actually been pretty impressed with Jones, particularly his versatility. Youngs a good player as well, he's not in the elite group at the very top but he's certainly not average. I agree with you about United's short term future unless they are able to bring in a creative midfielder like say Goetze from Dortmund but I'd disagree with you regarding playing youths at the top level, look at the Barca team, Dortmund, Germany etc. If a player is good enough then he's old enough. I'm a Celtic fan and arguably our most important player this season has been the 20 year old James Forrest. I appreciate that the SPL is not the best league in the world but the boy was excellent for us against Udinese who were at the time top of Serie A.

 

[SA_Gunslinger]

I certainly agree about lacking in the midfield, but shoot, even the best of teams aren't perfect top to bottom. I expect them to make a move in this window, and if not they probably trust Scholes enough to be a stop gap until summer. You mention the injuries, and they have been widespread for United this season, but Vidic is the one that truly hurts. Take a look at their GA avg with him and without. It's night and day. Again, depth can only take you so far. Sooner or later, if your top guys aren't there, you're going to suffer. And that is happening at United this season, to be sure. And yet.... here they sit in second place.

And certainly CL was a disappoint, but again.....you can't win it every year. They've been the winner or the runner up 3 of the last 4 years. Many of the top clubs in the world can only dream of such successes. So they crashed out this year. It happens. And you make it sound like they are a longshot from qualifying for next year. Again.....have you see the table recently? :laugh2:

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think the proclaiming of United's demise is awfully premature.

 

[Alumni2k11]

I see Arsenal is somewhat struggling compared to how they normally do. Hope they pick it up in the 2nd half of the season.

 

[csirl]

The success of the United team is down to Fergusons talent as a coach/manager. However, there are limits to the miracles he can work and without significant investment the team will slide. I do think that if and when Ferguson retires, the team will be in serious difficulties as the squad is very average. Another big issue with United is that they need a new modern stadium to raise more money from games (I know they've done a lot of work over the years, but its being making the best of an old stadium on a limited site). I've heard from a reliable source that they were seeking assistance from the city of Manchester, but it wasnt forthcoming - understandable due to the stake the city has in Man City's stadium.


I think Arsenal have struggled for financial reasons - they recently built a new stadium which used up a lot of resources and I think they decided to pay off one of the loans early due to the implications of NAMA's control over the business plans of borrowers (google the financial crisis in Ireland - the stadium was financed with an Irish loan). They've had a change of owner, so I expect their funding situation to improve in the coming years. [Incidently NAMA has some control over at least 2 other PL teams].

For the record I'm a Liverpool fan. Dont think Liverpool will do much over the next couple of seasons. I am disgusted at the amount of money they have wasted on second rate players ala Carroll, Henderson, Adam etc. The proceeds of the Torres sale were wasted. My hope is that the new owners are thinking more long term - for PR reasons they needed to appoint Dalglish now (and have him fail) before clearing out the place and bringing in new management.

 

[joseephuss]

David de Gea has been a slight disappointment for Man U. He has been questioned for some of the goals they have given up this season. Part of that is because the bar has been set so high for that franchise.

 

[Longboysfan]

United will not slide that far unless they gut the team - sell players in the transfer window - of everyone. They could still easily hang in the mid table for many years. Look at the Villa.