Mcginn/scouts on 2023 DL

[locked&loaded]

Clips from Golong McGinn DL column...

In the days leading up to an NFL draft almost 40 years ago, Dick Steinberg and his peers in the NFL scouting community were coming to grips with the exhausting uncertainty of evaluating defensive linemen.

From the first round of 1985, Bruce Smith and Chris Doleman made the Hall of Fame, Ray Childress was a perennial Pro Bowler, Ron Holmes and William “The Refrigerator” Perry were solid players and Kevin Brooks and Darryl Sims were busts.

“There’s been more mistakes made in the defensive line than any other position in the last 15 years,” said Steinberg, at the time director of player development for the New England Patriots. “The biggest reason is inconsistent competitiveness.”

Nothing much has changed. Other than quarterback, one could argue that a defensive tackle with dominant traits might be the most difficult to find and the hardest to evaluate. Because their value is extreme, teams always have and probably always will loosen their grading criteria and reach on big people.

...Carter lied to police about his proximity to the crash. In mid-March, he pleaded no contest to two misdemeanor charges of reckless driving and racing. He was sentenced to 12 months on probation and ordered to pay a fine, perform community service and attend a safe-driving course.

“That was all about half lies, half-baked truths,” said an executive in personnel for an NFL team. “The championship is over so he’s out from under their purview and he’s racing on the streets of Athens and people get killed. He had to lie like a dog at the combine. And there’s not one person there at Georgia that will endorse him. What are the red flags here?”

...Another scout said Carter had demonstrated to him during his three-year career hat he didn’t love football and didn’t love the weight room. His conditioning became such an issue at Georgia that the coaches put him on the treadmill almost daily.

In March, Carter showed up at pro day weighing 323 pounds, nine more than at the combine. After Joe Cullen, the defensive line coach for the Kansas City Chiefs, orchestrated drill work for the assembled NFL audience, Carter ran out of gas and abruptly quit.

“He put him through the ringer,” said an executive. “They were trying to break him, and he broke. No, it’s not a black mark. It’s a question mark, not a black mark.”

...Another personnel chief gave Carter a 70-30 chance to succeed in the NFL.

“I don’t trust that he likes football,” he said. “Supremely talented, immature, does it on his pace. … If he loved football, I mean really loved it, he’d be a f--king beast.

“He’ll wind up being like an average NFL guy. It’ll be like (the) dumb *** from Tennessee. What was his name? Haynesworth.”

...My poll of 16 evaluators saw Carter emerge as a unanimous choice. He totaled the maximum 80 points in 1-2-3-4-5 balloting.

Eleven others received votes, including Bryan Bresee (38), Keeanu Benton (28), Mazi Smith (26), Calijah Kancey (24), Keion White (19), Adetomiwa Adebawore (seven), Gervon Dexter (five), Zacch Pickens (five), Siaki Ika (three), Tyler Lacy (three) and Byron Young (two).

 

[locked&loaded]

2. BRYAN BRESEE, Clemson (6-5 ½, 302, 4.91, 1-2): Third-year sophomore. “He’s one of the hardest guys to do all year,” said one scout. “To really watch him, the ACC Championship Game, he was pretty good. Then you’ve got to go back to 2020 to really feel him. The talent’s there. Just watch the Tennessee game. Tennessee’s got a pretty good offensive line. There’s a history of injuries. The unknown is, is he breaking down or is it just bad luck? He’s a 3-technique and a 5-technique. He goes 25 to 40.” Suffered a sprained left knee in February 2020 shortly after enrolling and a torn left ACL in Game 4 of 2021. Missed four more games in ’22 with a kidney infection brought on by strep throat. In 2022, his younger sister died after a long battle with cancer. “He started to look like himself at the very end of the season,” said a second scout. “Then he had a good combine and a good pro day. He might end up being OK now that all this is over and can maybe get back on his feet again.” Short arms (32 ½), hands were 10 1/4. “He’s explosive, strong and powerful,” said a third scout. “I liked his effort. I also thought he played too high, which is also of concern.” Finished with 50 tackles (15 for loss) and nine sacks. “I’m not a big Bresee guy,” a third scout said. “By the way, he’d play two plays and have to come off the field and take a knee.” Tallied 16 on the Wonderlic. “Just a try-hard, limited guy,” a fourth scout said. “He got knocked around. Stiff and limited. I guess because he was the No. 1 recruit in the country people are trying to make something out of him. Hit or miss. I didn’t see it.” From Damascus, Md.

3. KEEANU BENTON, Wisconsin (6-3 ½, 311, 5.13, 1-2): Four-year starter at nose tackle in a 3-4 defense. “He’s done well for himself since the end of the season,” one scout said. “He’s not going to be a pass-rushing, penetrating 3-technique but he’s got long enough arms (33 7/8) that he could play across the front for a 3-4 team. He showed a little more athleticism than I gave him credit for.” Finished with 80 tackles (19 for loss) in 45 games and nine sacks. “More of a flash guy but he did improve on that this year,” said a second scout. “Just (more) willing to work on his endurance. He’s quick and can initiate contact. Uses his length well. Does have some pass-rush value just because of his athleticism off the snap. He could ascend to be a starter. Arrow up.” Forged a record of 127-8 as a prep wrestler. “Really strong lock-out,” said a third scout. “Just jack people up and throw ‘em and make plays. At the Senior Bowl he showed better lower-body flexibility, better initial quickness, more disruptive up-field ability. His best football is ahead of him.” Wonderlic of 18. Added a fourth scout: “The lights went on midseason. He’s got a unique skill set, the combination with his hands and his feet to rush the passer from the interior. He’s stout enough to hold the point. He’ll do nothing but get better, and he is a good dude. He’s not a nose. He’s got to be a 3-tech in a four-man line. He goes late first; I don’t think there’s a maybe attached to that.” From Janesville, Wis.

4. MAZI SMITH, Michigan (6-3, 319, no 40, 2): Labeled as “the best true nose in the draft” by one scout. Made just three tackles in 2019-’20 before starting all 28 games in 2021-’22. “Very gifted athlete-size combination,” a second scout said. “Doesn’t necessarily play as hard as he should all the time. He’ll go second round because those big bodies with that athleticism are nearly impossible to find. Obviously, the character concerns could play into that. Playing (the run) requires a lot of discipline and toughness and grit. I don’t think he’s wired that way. Just going off the physical component … well then, absolutely. But that’s when people make mistakes.” Avoided jail time in January. Sentenced to 12 months on probation for a misdemeanor weapons charge. “The gun issue was a stupid thing on his part that he let happen,” said a third scout. “He had already applied for his damn (gun) permit.” Finished with 88 tackles (six for loss) and one-half sack. “Disruptive player,” said a fourth scout. “My concerns would be his motor and strain consistently throughout the game. He’s got a lot of physical tools to play nose on early downs. He can collapse the pocket, but I don’t know if he can burst and close on a guy. But with those noses, ****, if you can get anything in the pass game that’s a plus.” Arms were 33 ¾, hands were 9 ¾. “I wasn’t impressed,” a fifth scout said. “He’s stiff. He doesn’t shed blockers or move to the ball very well. I thought his instincts and his natural strength and explosion were poor for an inside guy. He is not a good football player and I don’t think he’s a good athlete. He’s just a bull in a china shop. Those guys get stalled easy up here. He’s really wide. He just doesn’t play with his arms or his elbows in tight.” Wonderlic of 22. From Grand Rapids, Mich.

...5. CALIJAH KANCEY, Pittsburgh (6-1, 283, 4.73, 2): Had a great combine; led the position in the 3-cone (7.00). “Who’s the most intriguing guy?” one scout said. “Calijah Kancey. He’s a whirling dervish. Heck of a football player. I think of John Randle. Played a little bit on the edge but I liked him inside. He splits double teams from time to time.” The obvious comparison would be Rams nonpareil DT Aaron Donald (6-1, 286, 4.66), a first-round pick from Pitt in 2014. “He’s not Aaron Donald,” another scout said. “He struggles when they get the big bodies on with the double teams and combination blocks. But he’s got some inside pass rush. Plays hard. Just small.” Fourth-year junior, three-year starter at 3-technique in a 4-3 defense. “He’s got value because teams throw the football and he can take advantage of any guard in the league based on his burst and athleticism,” a third scout said. “But just knowing the way these offensive lines are built, those big guys with length, he’ll have problems with them if you want to stop the run. He’s the best 3-technique sub rusher in the draft this year. There are no character flaws.” Finished with 92 tackles (34 ½ for loss) and 16 sacks. “Thirty-inch (30 5/8) arms,” a fourth scout said. “We’re not going to take a guy that small unless it’s Aaron Donald.” Wonderlic of 14. “People are hot to trot on him,” said a fifth scout. “Fun to watch but he’s so small that he’s going to be a package player, not a full-time starter. I don’t know how you take a part-time player in the first round. He’s got some pass rush. Can he get to Josh Allen? Yeah, but can he get him on the ground? I don’t know.” From Miami.

 

[visionary]

Benton or Mazi at 58 for me

 

[Aven8]

These are great. It sounds like Carter is lazy which would be very scary pick for me

 

[My3Sons]

Benton or Kancey in the 2nd would be ideal.

Low motor fat guys are huge risk.

 

[Cowboyny]

Not glowing endorsements for the positional group. Still believe if you don't get Benton, Mazi, Ika, best not to draft one at all.

 

[gtb1943]

These are great. It sounds like Carter is lazy which would be very scary pick for me

despite his agents best effort, more is coming out that makes Carter a very risky pick

To me the part where some flat out say he does not really love Football is the worst black mark; even more so then lying to police and trying to dodge the responsibility he had for that accident.

 

[Bigdog]

Benton or Mazi at 58 for me

I’ll take Benton. Like his upside but I don’t think either one will make it to 58 but I hope I am wrong

 

[AsthmaField]

Benton or Kancey in the 2nd would be ideal.

Low motor fat guys are huge risk.

Benton very easily could go in the late first. I don’t think there is much of a chance that he’ll fall to 58.

But yeah, if Dallas could get him in the second round, sure.

IMO Golston will play the undersized nickel pass rush 3-tech role. If you want a quick, undersized interior rusher, then Golston is probably who Quinn will use. The main difference is that Golston has a hell of a lot more length and already has experience in Quinn’s scheme.

Golston hadn’t done much last year and then, it must have started clicking for him because he really started playing pretty well right at the end of the season and into the playoffs. He looked like a different player then, compared to the first half of the season playing 3T. He started getting good penetration and applying pressure to the QB.

It makes sense that it would take some time considering the position change. Frankly, I’m a lot more excited for what Golston will do than I would be for Kancey coming here.

 

[beware_d-ware]

I don't really care if a guy likes football. I care if he has the discipline to go out and do his job.

There's a lot of good players in the NFL who plainly don't love ball. Look at Amari Cooper. He frankly looks like he doesn't care about 80% of the time, but he still shows up and executes. Dude is a professional about it. He's getting paid $20M a year to play wide receiver... I guarantee you that at some point, everyone on this board has shown up to a job they don't love for less than 1% of that.

Frankly, I think Tony Romo is another guy who didn't really love ball. I think he would've been happier being a pro golfer than a pro quarterback. But the way his talents fell, he could either be the planet's 10th best QB or the planet's 1000th best golfer. So Romo chose a $100M check from Jerry Jones rather than a $50k check from the Korn Ferry tour.

Same deal with Carter. I don't care if he has a passion for the sport, I'm way more concerned that he's lazy and doesn't think ahead about consequences.

 

[Majic]

2. BRYAN BRESEE, Clemson (6-5 ½, 302, 4.91, 1-2): Third-year sophomore. “He’s one of the hardest guys to do all year,” said one scout. “To really watch him, the ACC Championship Game, he was pretty good. Then you’ve got to go back to 2020 to really feel him. The talent’s there. Just watch the Tennessee game. Tennessee’s got a pretty good offensive line. There’s a history of injuries. The unknown is, is he breaking down or is it just bad luck? He’s a 3-technique and a 5-technique. He goes 25 to 40.” Suffered a sprained left knee in February 2020 shortly after enrolling and a torn left ACL in Game 4 of 2021. Missed four more games in ’22 with a kidney infection brought on by strep throat. In 2022, his younger sister died after a long battle with cancer. “He started to look like himself at the very end of the season,” said a second scout. “Then he had a good combine and a good pro day. He might end up being OK now that all this is over and can maybe get back on his feet again.” Short arms (32 ½), hands were 10 1/4. “He’s explosive, strong and powerful,” said a third scout. “I liked his effort. I also thought he played too high, which is also of concern.” Finished with 50 tackles (15 for loss) and nine sacks. “I’m not a big Bresee guy,” a third scout said. “By the way, he’d play two plays and have to come off the field and take a knee.” Tallied 16 on the Wonderlic. “Just a try-hard, limited guy,” a fourth scout said. “He got knocked around. Stiff and limited. I guess because he was the No. 1 recruit in the country people are trying to make something out of him. Hit or miss. I didn’t see it.” From Damascus, Md.

3. KEEANU BENTON, Wisconsin (6-3 ½, 311, 5.13, 1-2): Four-year starter at nose tackle in a 3-4 defense. “He’s done well for himself since the end of the season,” one scout said. “He’s not going to be a pass-rushing, penetrating 3-technique but he’s got long enough arms (33 7/8) that he could play across the front for a 3-4 team. He showed a little more athleticism than I gave him credit for.” Finished with 80 tackles (19 for loss) in 45 games and nine sacks. “More of a flash guy but he did improve on that this year,” said a second scout. “Just (more) willing to work on his endurance. He’s quick and can initiate contact. Uses his length well. Does have some pass-rush value just because of his athleticism off the snap. He could ascend to be a starter. Arrow up.” Forged a record of 127-8 as a prep wrestler. “Really strong lock-out,” said a third scout. “Just jack people up and throw ‘em and make plays. At the Senior Bowl he showed better lower-body flexibility, better initial quickness, more disruptive up-field ability. His best football is ahead of him.” Wonderlic of 18. Added a fourth scout: “The lights went on midseason. He’s got a unique skill set, the combination with his hands and his feet to rush the passer from the interior. He’s stout enough to hold the point. He’ll do nothing but get better, and he is a good dude. He’s not a nose. He’s got to be a 3-tech in a four-man line. He goes late first; I don’t think there’s a maybe attached to that.” From Janesville, Wis.

4. MAZI SMITH, Michigan (6-3, 319, no 40, 2): Labeled as “the best true nose in the draft” by one scout. Made just three tackles in 2019-’20 before starting all 28 games in 2021-’22. “Very gifted athlete-size combination,” a second scout said. “Doesn’t necessarily play as hard as he should all the time. He’ll go second round because those big bodies with that athleticism are nearly impossible to find. Obviously, the character concerns could play into that. Playing (the run) requires a lot of discipline and toughness and grit. I don’t think he’s wired that way. Just going off the physical component … well then, absolutely. But that’s when people make mistakes.” Avoided jail time in January. Sentenced to 12 months on probation for a misdemeanor weapons charge. “The gun issue was a stupid thing on his part that he let happen,” said a third scout. “He had already applied for his damn (gun) permit.” Finished with 88 tackles (six for loss) and one-half sack. “Disruptive player,” said a fourth scout. “My concerns would be his motor and strain consistently throughout the game. He’s got a lot of physical tools to play nose on early downs. He can collapse the pocket, but I don’t know if he can burst and close on a guy. But with those noses, ****, if you can get anything in the pass game that’s a plus.” Arms were 33 ¾, hands were 9 ¾. “I wasn’t impressed,” a fifth scout said. “He’s stiff. He doesn’t shed blockers or move to the ball very well. I thought his instincts and his natural strength and explosion were poor for an inside guy. He is not a good football player and I don’t think he’s a good athlete. He’s just a bull in a china shop. Those guys get stalled easy up here. He’s really wide. He just doesn’t play with his arms or his elbows in tight.” Wonderlic of 22. From Grand Rapids, Mich.

...5. CALIJAH KANCEY, Pittsburgh (6-1, 283, 4.73, 2): Had a great combine; led the position in the 3-cone (7.00). “Who’s the most intriguing guy?” one scout said. “Calijah Kancey. He’s a whirling dervish. Heck of a football player. I think of John Randle. Played a little bit on the edge but I liked him inside. He splits double teams from time to time.” The obvious comparison would be Rams nonpareil DT Aaron Donald (6-1, 286, 4.66), a first-round pick from Pitt in 2014. “He’s not Aaron Donald,” another scout said. “He struggles when they get the big bodies on with the double teams and combination blocks. But he’s got some inside pass rush. Plays hard. Just small.” Fourth-year junior, three-year starter at 3-technique in a 4-3 defense. “He’s got value because teams throw the football and he can take advantage of any guard in the league based on his burst and athleticism,” a third scout said. “But just knowing the way these offensive lines are built, those big guys with length, he’ll have problems with them if you want to stop the run. He’s the best 3-technique sub rusher in the draft this year. There are no character flaws.” Finished with 92 tackles (34 ½ for loss) and 16 sacks. “Thirty-inch (30 5/8) arms,” a fourth scout said. “We’re not going to take a guy that small unless it’s Aaron Donald.” Wonderlic of 14. “People are hot to trot on him,” said a fifth scout. “Fun to watch but he’s so small that he’s going to be a package player, not a full-time starter. I don’t know how you take a part-time player in the first round. He’s got some pass rush. Can he get to Josh Allen? Yeah, but can he get him on the ground? I don’t know.” From Miami.

Kancey sounds like he could fall considerably.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Not glowing endorsements for the positional group. Still believe if you don't get Benton, Mazi, Ika, best not to draft one at all.

You put 10 pounds on Roy and he is a 3rd down 1T

 

[darthseinfeld]

I can see Mazi falling and them taking him at 58 just because of measurables.

I dont agree with " he is not a good football player", but I do think he has been over rated

 

[RS12]

Thanks locked. Easily the most interesting group this year with the slimmest pickings.

 

[Malhavoc]

Kancey sounds like he could fall considerably.

I guarantee Kancey is a 1st round pick.

 

[RS12]

I guarantee Kancey is a 1st round pick.

Pauline agrees according to sources.

 

[MAZEREZAM]

Benton very easily could go in the late first. I don’t think there is much of a chance that he’ll fall to 58.

But yeah, if Dallas could get him in the second round, sure.

IMO Golston will play the undersized nickel pass rush 3-tech role. If you want a quick, undersized interior rusher, then Golston is probably who Quinn will use. The main difference is that Golston has a hell of a lot more length and already has experience in Quinn’s scheme.

Golston hadn’t done much last year and then, it must have started clicking for him because he really started playing pretty well right at the end of the season and into the playoffs. He looked like a different player then, compared to the first half of the season playing 3T. He started getting good penetration and applying pressure to the QB.

It makes sense that it would take some time considering the position change. Frankly, I’m a lot more excited for what Golston will do than I would be for Kancey coming here.

That would be ideal if Gholston takes on that role but I wouldn’t be upset if we drafted Benton at #26. I have a feeling no one really has a good grip on what the GMs are thinking.

 

[Killerinstinct]

Please more people bash Kancey Push him down to 26.

 

[ghst187]

The scouts take is same as mine just incredibly more detailed….I just don’t like any of them really and I could see them all being busts. Folks here keep clamoring for us to take Mazi or whomever and that’s exactly how teams end up drafting major busts…I agree there is a big need at DT but not sure any in the draft are even better than what we already have. Best to take a great player at 26 and 58 then reach and bust.

 

[Creeper]

If I was a GM picking in the top 10 I would be very nervous about selecting Carter. Guys who do not love football AND show signs of immaturity don't usually succeed. And in the midst of all this other stuff he refuses to meet with any teams not drafting in the top 10? Lot's of caution flags around this kid. The problem with guys who dog it most of the time is the rest of the team can see it. It is bad for the chemistry of the team. I'd rather draft a pitbull who maybe isn;t as talented but loves the game and gives me 100% all the time.

Also, I am pretty sure the best DTs will all be gone by 58.