Nick Managold and Max Jean Guilles

[neosapien23]

Alot of mock drafts have the Cowboys taking an OLBer in the first round. I really think the Oline is a much bigger need for this team. I would really like to see the Cowboys trade their 18th pick to the Colts for their first and 2nd round picks. With the low first the Cowboys should get Nick Managold. If they have to they should package a 2nd round and a 3rd round pick to move up and get Max Jean Guilles. With our last 2nd Dallas can get their FS. Al Singleton will probably start and Burnett will take the job when he is ready. Our Oline would have two immediate starters that would contribute both this year and in future years. I like the idea of Managold and Guilles starting alot more than Johnson and Kosier. Thoughts???

 

[DawnOfANewD]

Alot of mock drafts have the Cowboys taking an OLBer in the first round. I really think the Oline is a much bigger need for this team. I would really like to see the Cowboys trade their 18th pick to the Colts for their first and 2nd round picks. With the low first the Cowboys should get Nick Managold. If they have to they should package a 2nd round and a 3rd round pick to move up and get Max Jean Guilles. With our last 2nd Dallas can get their FS. Al Singleton will probably start and Burnett will take the job when he is ready. Our Oline would have two immediate starters that would contribute both this year and in future years. I like the idea of Managold and Guilles starting alot more than Johnson and Kosier. Thoughts???

That'd be great, but who does IND really want to move up to get that badly that they'd trade their 1st and 2nd for? Conventional wisdom is that IND will try to replace E. James by using their 1st pick to draft a RB who's a good receiver out of the backfield. Aside from HOU, ATL, NE, and perhaps DEN, no team picking ahead of IND in the first round has a need for a RB. Even if say Bush, Lendale White, Lawrence Maroney, and DeAngelo Williams are all snapped up by the aforementioned teams, there's still Joseph Addai who's an outstanding receiver and Brian Calhoun and Maurice Drew who also have nice hands and it's hard to imagine Calhoun and Drew not still being there by the time the 2nd-round rolls around. IND knows that they don't have to move up from the 3rd-last pick in the first round to nab a solid RB who would fit their scheme. That's probably part of the reason (aside from fiscal concerns) that they thought they could let James go. They knew the draft would be deep in pass-catching RB's this year.

 

[Rack]

That'd be great, but who does IND really want to move up to get that badly that they'd trade their 1st and 2nd for?

I doubt they'd trade their first and second for anyone, but they might trade their first and third to move up and get a RB. Lendale White, possibly? I don't think he's worth that high a pick, but the Colts might, and it is a need for them.

 

[ghst187]

Consider me a person who is also VERY concerned about the C position. I've said it a number of times here that I thought the C was our weakest position on the team. That was the reason I really wanted us to pay up and get Bentley.
However, I think we paid Gurode to come back and compete at C. That pretty much ended, IMO, any ideas of us drafting a C.

 

[DawnOfANewD]

I doubt they'd trade their first and second for anyone, but they might trade their first and third to move up and get a RB. Lendale White, possibly? I don't think he's worth that high a pick, but the Colts might, and it is a need for them.

Well, I guess my point was that aside from the "consensus" top RB's like White and Maroney, etc. there are some decent RB's that maybe don't get as much press but still fit the specs of what IND is looking for in a RB to replace James. That's why to get a decent RB I don't think IND has to trade a pick to move up in the 1st round at all. They can get one where they currently sit. White is more of a sure thing and more talented than a less-heralded prospect like Addai, but there's not really a hugely massively tremendous qualitative difference between them.

 

[DLCassidy]

Well, I guess my point was that aside from the "consensus" top RB's like White and Maroney, etc. there are some decent RB's that maybe don't get as much press but still fit the specs of what IND is looking for in a RB to replace James. That's why to get a decent RB I don't think IND has to trade a pick to move up in the 1st round at all. They can get one where they currently sit. White is more of a sure thing and more talented than a less-heralded prospect like Addai, but there's not really a hugely massively tremendous qualitative difference between them.

I disagree. When the dust settles a year or 2 from now Deangelo Williams may be the RB people are talking about being the steal of this draft. Indy knows he won't get past NE and SD and KC may be unwilling to move down. Indy wants to get someone that can make them forget letting Edge go and this is the guy. But the price to move up 12 slots is their 2nd round pick. I actually think this trade has a very good chance of happening.

 

[Woods]

I disagree. When the dust settles a year or 2 from now Deangelo Williams may be the RB people are talking about being the steal of this draft. Indy knows he won't get past NE and SD and KC may be unwilling to move down. Indy wants to get someone that can make them forget letting Edge go and this is the guy. But the price to move up 12 slots is their 2nd round pick. I actually think this trade has a very good chance of happening.

That's the trade I'm hoping for as well.

 

[DLCassidy]

Alot of mock drafts have the Cowboys taking an OLBer in the first round. I really think the Oline is a much bigger need for this team. I would really like to see the Cowboys trade their 18th pick to the Colts for their first and 2nd round picks. With the low first the Cowboys should get Nick Managold. If they have to they should package a 2nd round and a 3rd round pick to move up and get Max Jean Guilles. With our last 2nd Dallas can get their FS. Al Singleton will probably start and Burnett will take the job when he is ready. Our Oline would have two immediate starters that would contribute both this year and in future years. I like the idea of Managold and Guilles starting alot more than Johnson and Kosier. Thoughts???

I don't think the powers at the Ranch agree with you. Personally I'd be fine with the boys trading down and taking Mangold. From everything I've read about the guy he's going to be a star. But I think BP is very reluctant to start a rookie on the OL again and he still is holding out hope that either Johnson or Gurode will step up at center. I think if we were going to choose an Ol player with that late first it would be Eric Winston. This guy is a LT but he has the kind of mobility BP's likes in his OL men. He could actually compete for the LG spot with Kosier and give us great flexibility if he doesn't start right away. Gilles is not that mobile and he looks like a weight problem possibility- but he could be there at 49 if we want him. I think BP would rather have a Spencer or Joseph if we want a guard. But IMO with the additions of Kosier and Fabini the pressure is off the OL selections quite a bit.

 

[Woods]

I don't think the powers at the Ranch agree with you. Personally I'd be fine with the boys trading down and taking Mangold. From everything I've read about the guy he's going to be a star. But I think BP is very reluctant to start a rookie on the OL again and he still is holding out hope that either Johnson or Gurode will step up at center. I think if we were going to choose an Ol player with that late first it would be Eric Winston. This guy is a LT but he has the kind of mobility BP's likes in his OL men. He could actually compete for the LG spot with Kosier and give us great flexibility if he doesn't start right away. Gilles is not that mobile and he looks like a weight problem possibility- but he could be there at 49 if we want him. I think BP would rather have a Spencer or Joseph if we want a guard. But IMO with the additions of Kosier and Fabini the pressure is off the OL selections quite a bit.

Right now, my favorite Guard is actually Joseph. Very good mobility, etc. Shouldn't eat himself out of the league . . . . Could possibly play some OT as well.

I like Spencer as well, but I think there have been several (shoulder) injury concerns with him. Not sure how serious they are though. But I'd think that Spencer should be available with our 2nd.

 

[Clove]

Alot of mock drafts have the Cowboys taking an OLBer in the first round. I really think the Oline is a much bigger need for this team. I would really like to see the Cowboys trade their 18th pick to the Colts for their first and 2nd round picks. With the low first the Cowboys should get Nick Managold. If they have to they should package a 2nd round and a 3rd round pick to move up and get Max Jean Guilles. With our last 2nd Dallas can get their FS. Al Singleton will probably start and Burnett will take the job when he is ready. Our Oline would have two immediate starters that would contribute both this year and in future years. I like the idea of Managold and Guilles starting alot more than Johnson and Kosier. Thoughts???

If we go into the season with Singleton and Burnett at OLB, I might tear up everything in my living room. I don't care how we do it, we need to come out of the 1st 3 rounds with an OLB.

 

[dbair1967]

If we go into the season with Singleton and Burnett at OLB, I might tear up everything in my living room. I don't care how we do it, we need to come out of the 1st 3 rounds with an OLB.

even though so far they've said Ayodele is going to start at ILB next to James, if nothing else were done at OLB he could easily move there and we'd be fine...he's going to be an upgrade at LB regardless of where he lines up

getting another OLB to start would be nice, but it isnt critical IMO

David

 

[dbair1967]

Alot of mock drafts have the Cowboys taking an OLBer in the first round. I really think the Oline is a much bigger need for this team. I would really like to see the Cowboys trade their 18th pick to the Colts for their first and 2nd round picks. With the low first the Cowboys should get Nick Managold. If they have to they should package a 2nd round and a 3rd round pick to move up and get Max Jean Guilles. . I like the idea of Managold and Guilles starting alot more than Johnson and Kosier. Thoughts???

I dont know why anyone would really want to do this...there are plenty of recent examples of highly drafted interior OL's that have been wasted picks...two of them are on our OWN roster...niether Mangold nor Giles is rated any higher than Andre Gurode or Al Johnson were...both were early 2nd rd picks regarded by most to be worth broderline 1st rounders...the Browns moved up 3yrs ago to draft C Jeff Faine, and will probably end up releasing him after June 1 because they just opened up Fort Knox to replace him with LeCharles Bentley...the Seahawks used their #1 pick on a guy who was supposedly a great C prospect (Chris Spencer) last yr, and he never got on the field last yr and wont get on the field this yr either unless an old guy in front of him gets hurt

the early picks should be used on potential difference makers at other positions...its just too easy to fill interior OL spots with low to mid priced free agents or develop 2nd day picks who turn into good starters there

David

 

[dwmyers]

Couple Points:

According to this draft chart: http://ourlads.com/NFLDraftValueChart.html

Pick #18 = 900 points.

Pick #30 = 620 points.
Pick #62 = 284 points.
------------------------
Total = 904 points.

So, in theory our #18 for Indy's #1 and #2 is a balanced trade (give or take 4 points..)

Now, what else I am hearing from this thread:

http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52425

is:

Jeremy (Indy, IN): What do you think the Colts should do? I think they should try to trade up and pull Lawrence Maroney, the most Edgerrin James-esque back in the draft.

Gary Horton: That sounds good in theory. But it's not necessarily the Colts' style. They are very comfortable in their draft evaulations, and they tend to let the draft come to them. And they will have several guys targeted on where they are picking, and they don't like to give up draft picks to move up. They are very solid in the middle rounds and value those picks. And my guess is that they'll stay right where they're at and will find a back somewhere in this draft.

 

[ghst187]

Right now, my favorite Guard is actually Joseph. Very good mobility, etc. Shouldn't eat himself out of the league . . . . Could possibly play some OT as well.

I like Spencer as well, but I think there have been several (shoulder) injury concerns with him. Not sure how serious they are though. But I'd think that Spencer should be available with our 2nd.

I like Joseph a lot too. He should slide late into the second maybe even third round only because he was forced to play T his last season at OU. He could be a great G in the pros.

 

[MiStar]

I don't think that Mangold will be much of an upgrade, if at all, over what we already have in Al Johnson. Both are smart players that lack the raw power to be dominant.

 

[Clove]

I don't think that Mangold will be much of an upgrade, if at all, over what we already have in Al Johnson. Both are smart players that lack the raw power to be dominant.

I saw Mangold in the Senior bowl, and he looked good in pass protection, but I don't know about the running game.

 

[burmafrd]

Here is something on GIlles from his pro day:

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/sports/colleges/university_of_georgia/14173018.htm?source=rss&channel=ledgerenquirer_university_of_georgia
Did increase his bench and lost weight from the combine.


Here is an excerpt from Yahoo sports:

This guy is really big- its not fat.

Max Jean-Gilles has a 48-inch waist and wears 4XL shirts, size 16 shoes and size 8 baseball caps. At 355 pounds, he was the heaviest player at the Combine. Get the picture? "He's just a big man," Softli says. "He's big all over -- from ankles to head."

As a guard for SEC champion Georgia last season, Jean-Gilles opened holes for a rushing attack that produced 2,351 yards and helped protect quarterback D.J. Shockley, who passed for 2,588 yards and 24 touchdowns. Jean-Gilles is an immovable inside force.

"When he locks on you and gets his feet moving, you're history," Ackerley says. "You can't budge this guy."

But some scouts are concerned Jean-Gilles' weight could lead to durability and endurance issues. Although he is light on his feet for his size, they question whether he can play with the same level of intensity over 60 minutes for 16 games.

At his size, Jean-Gilles would not be a good fit for a team such as the Chiefs, who pull their guards on tosses, screen passes and other perimeter plays almost 50 percent of the time. He also wouldn't fit the profile of a Broncos lineman: light, quick and athletic. In fact, Jean-Gilles weighs more than 95 percent of the guards who played in at least one NFL game in 2005. According to one team's records, only four guards were listed at 349 pounds or more last season, and five others were listed in the 340s but likely weighed more than 350.

The top-rated guard on many draft boards, Jean-Gilles doesn't understand the fuss about his weight. He has been big all his life and describes himself as "skinny fat." He is working with a nutritionist, who has him on a low-carb diet and a cardiovascular exercise regimen. If he carries that diligence into the NFL, he will be a good investment late in the first round or second round.

"I think he's probably a good football player at 355 to 360," Ackerley says.

"I think he's a great football player at 325 to 330."