QB’s Wonderlic score update

[SALADIN]

gbn report

QB’s Wonderlic score update… For those who keep track of these things, several sources are reporting that former Texas QB Vince Young actually scored a 7 on that Wonderlic test at the Scouting Combine in late February, and that he got 16 on a re-test. Early published reports had indicated that Young had scored a 6 on the original test. The low score led to a great deal of speculation as to whether Young would be able to pick up a complicated NFL offense. That in turn had Young’s status for the 2006 draft spinning all over the place, although he appears to have been able to right the ship to a large degree with a solid on-campus workout last week. Because of his unique attributes – Young is a terrific athlete with a very strong arm, but has questionable mechanics and limited pocket experience – Young remains perhaps the hardest player to grade for pro teams to come along in awhile.

 

[txlonghorn14]

i hate the wonderlic. it doesn't say jack shizzle about how a player is going to perform on the field. its like judging a person from their SAT score, it doesn't mean anything.

 

[Pokes28]

It obviously matters or they wouldn't require it.

David Harrell - Pokes
dwh

 

[txlonghorn14]

It obviously matters or they wouldn't require it.

David Harrell - Pokes
dwh

i can see the wonderlic trying to be a gauge as to determine a player's ability to problem solve and think with common sense, but i really don't see where this test has any relevance to football. i understand that a player must make smart decisions on the field, but he's not going to be asked to solve a reading comprehension problem while completing a pass.

 

[burmafrd]

When you see some of the GREAT QB's like Marino that had lousy wonderlics, then someone like Q gets a high score, how can anyone really take is seriously?

 

[dwmyers]

1. Marino's Wonderlic, iirc, was about 2 points below the average for quarterbacks, which isn't lousy. The score of "19" I've seen bandied about for Marino I think is too low. The QB average is ca 23, anyway.

1a. Q: Has anyone published the standard error on that test? Without it, knowing the relative numbers are meaningless.

2. Wonderlics: Less than 10 is lousy. Guys with Wonderlics less than 10 that the Cowboys have drafted in the past five years never became starters, often despite exceptional physical skills. Of course, I'm talking about Daleroy Stewart and that USC linebacker who never amounted to squat. They were in the "less than 10" range.

3. Notes to think about: I've seen Akili Smith's Wonderlic recently reported as 15, to buttress accounts of how poor Wonderlics are correlated with failure. Thing is, Akili Smith went through a Wonderlic training course and his first reported Wonderlic was actually a 37. He retook the test and scored a 27. His high Wonderlics were part of the buzz that ended up with him drafted 3rd.

4. This reported 7/16 for VY is at least the fourth reported set of scores for Vince. The original was 6, the second was unknown first score, 16 second (ESPN #1), the third was 15 second score, unknown first (ESPN #2, I think Tom Shayes of Scouts Inc), and GBN now makes it the fourth score set with 7/16..

..this isn't news anymore, it's hype.

David.

 

[burmafrd]

The POINT is that more then a few BAD wonderlic scores came from QB's that are now in the HOF, or were close to that. Meanwhile- busts have had HIGH wonderlic scores. SO- it means NOTHING.

 

[cobra]

The Wonderlic is important in this instance because the biggest negative for Vince Young is that he played a shotgun option offense at UT. No team is going to play that in the pros. That means he is going to need to learn an entire offensive system that is unlike anything he has ever played in. The ability to analyze, conceptualize, and just generally use analytical skills is necessary for learning an entire new offense.

The other question about Vince Young is whether he has the ability to read defenses in the pros. His reads were limited in college, and Texas pretty much over-powered every team they played. In the NFL, Vince will need to read faster, more complex defenses, and be able to anticipate what is happening. This requires analytical skills (as well as instincts).

No one doubts his physical ability. If that was all that matters, than yes: he would be a lock for top 3 pick.

But when the two biggest concerns from Vince Young (his lack of experience in a pro style offense and that he has never had to really read defenses) are coupled with an absolutely atrocious score on the Wonderlic, you have to be concerned.

 

[ZB9]

Dan Marino scored a 15 on the wonderlic
Randal Cunningham 14
Donovan McNabb 12, 16
Jim Kelly 15
Steve McNair 14
Brett Favre 20
Michael Vick 21

Akili Smith scored a 36
Ryan Leaf 32
Ricky Williams 30
Quincy Carter 30

 

[cobra]

Ok.

Some of you need to understand the differences between correlation, causation, and indicative relationships.

Saying "these quarterbacks had lower scores and did well", and "these quarterbacks had high scores and sucked" means nothing in this discussion. It shows a lack of understanding of the importance of what the test is measuring and what it can tell you about a person. It really is just sloppy and weak argumentation masking as an attempt at equivalence.

Look:
High Wonderlic does not necessarily mean that an individual will be a good qb.
Low Wonderlic does not necessarily mean that an individual will be a bad qb.

The lazy and simple-minded will assume that means it won't tell us something about an individual's prospects.

That is wrong. Again, it is an indication of analytical skills. A low score confirms that the person doesn't have strong analytical skills. If analytic ability is a concern, then a low score confirms that concern. Although that doesn't necessarily mean the person can't run an offense. But it does suggest that it more likely than not that the person will have analytical problems as compared to someone with a high Wonderlic score.

It is not definitive. It is suggestive.

Vince Young is not smart and has poor analytical skills. We know that and that is not in dispute.

The only question is whether his mental ability will prevent him from becoming a good NFL quarterback or not. It is possible that it won't effect him. But only a fool would not acknowledge that there is a serious concern there. And that is what the test does. Shows that there is no concern in that area or there is. With Vince Young, there is.

 

[burmafrd]

I frankly disagree with your statement that he is not smart. Poor analytical skills- also would like to see a lot more evidence then your claim that it is not in dispute.

 

[txlonghorn14]

Ok.

Some of you need to understand the differences between correlation, causation, and indicative relationships.

Saying "these quarterbacks had lower scores and did well", and "these quarterbacks had high scores and sucked" means nothing in this discussion. It shows a lack of understanding of the importance of what the test is measuring and what it can tell you about a person. It really is just sloppy and weak argumentation masking as an attempt at equivalence.

Look:
High Wonderlic does not necessarily mean that an individual will be a good qb.
Low Wonderlic does not necessarily mean that an individual will be a bad qb.

The lazy and simple-minded will assume that means it won't tell us something about an individual's prospects.

That is wrong. Again, it is an indication of analytical skills. A low score confirms that the person doesn't have strong analytical skills. If analytic ability is a concern, then a low score confirms that concern. Although that doesn't necessarily mean the person can't run an offense. But it does suggest that it more likely than not that the person will have analytical problems as compared to someone with a high Wonderlic score.

It is not definitive. It is suggestive.

Vince Young is not smart and has poor analytical skills. We know that and that is not in dispute.

The only question is whether his mental ability will prevent him from becoming a good NFL quarterback or not. It is possible that it won't effect him. But only a fool would not acknowledge that there is a serious concern there. And that is what the test does. Shows that there is no concern in that area or there is. With Vince Young, there is.

i don't think you can assume vince's intelligence based on interviews and wonderlics. i understand that he may not be the best public speaker, but his decision making skills on the field are the ones that count. lets just wait and see what happens when he unleashes the FURY on the field.

 

[cobra]

Come on.

It's hard for me to engage in a serious discussion with someone who refuses to admit that Vince Young isn't smart.

No intelligent person can get a 7 on that test.

It is a measure of analytical abilities and intelligence. It requires no special knowledge. It tests only general knowledge and thinking ability.

If you can't do those things well, then you are, by definition, not smart.
If you do those things poorly, then you are, by definition, dumb.

Vince Young is dumb. That isn't an insult. It's just the truth. It doesn't mean he can't be a good quarterback, and it doesn't mean he is a bad person. He just is dumb. That's ok. Intelligence is distributed on a bell curve, and he is back there on the left side. There are lots of people with him.

But the topic about the importance of Young's performance on the Wonderlic can't be reasonably and respectfully discussed when you have people denying that a test measures intelligence and denying that Vince is dumb. Both of those positions are untenable.

 

[ZB9]

where the F do you get that Young scored a 7? some gossip website? I could say that Matt Leinart dated Nick Lachey and put it up on my website, does that make it true?

Not one person has been able to confirm either a 6 or a 7, not ONE person has been able to confirm anything less than a 15 or 16.

Actual NFL people have stated ON RECORD that the first test was graded incorrectly and was thrown out (that test administrator has since been fired, and THAT is a fact). The only official score for Vince Young is 15.

anyway, any person who feels that any one type of test can determine how smart a person is, needs to have their intelligence questioned as well. There are so many factors involved in every person's different situation and the situations surrounding any one given test, that to judge someone's intelligence solely on a test score is not wise (especially a test score that was rumored on the internet and not even able to be confirmed by one person).

 

[txlonghorn14]

where the F do you get that Young scored a 7? some gossip website? I could say that Matt Leinart dated Nick Lachey and put it up on my website, does that make it true?

Not one person has been able to confirm either a 6 or a 7, not ONE person has been able to confirm anything less than a 15 or 16.

Actual NFL people have stated ON RECORD that the first test was graded incorrectly and was thrown out (that test administrator has since been fired, and THAT is a fact). The only official score for Vince Young is 15.

anyway, any person who feels that any one type of test can determine how smart a person is, needs to have their intelligence questioned as well. There are so many factors involved in every person's different situation and the situations surrounding any one given test, that to judge someone's intelligence solely on a test score is not wise (especially a test score that was rumored on the internet and not even able to be confirmed by one person).

my thoughts exactly.

 

[cobra]

Ok homers. I'll stand by previous statement.

 

[burmafrd]

Anyone that assumes ( and we all know what assumes means) that ONE test can determine if someone is smart or stupid is a moron HIMSELF.

 

[Chief]

Ok homers. I'll stand by previous statement.

You have to be careful criticizing Longhorns on these boards.

:laugh2:

The burnt orange brigade comes out in force.

 

[dwmyers]

No intelligent person can get a 7 on that test..

You want to bet money on that? I'm sure there are a couple people here who would guarantee the lowest score possible on the test if you paid them.