Start with OL and DL and then other positions

CowboysFaninHouston

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this is a deeper RB draft, although I would love to have Jeanty, I don't think he is going to fix what ails cowboys, and I suspect Jerry might make this pick if he is available since he is thinking how many jerseys I could sell.

we have to fix the OL and DL and I would start with one of two options.

  • we have to get rid of Steele, he is cooked. he has zero lateral mobility, specially to his left. he was abused this year. he can't play any longer and is a big liability. I don't expect jerry to cut him, since he is not close to the end of his contract and jerry hates dead cap money, but we should cut Steele, move Guyton to the RT, his more natural spot as he really struggled as a LT and draft a LT in the first round, just like we did with Tyron Smith. someone like Kelvin Banks Jr, who is a pure LT from a big program. now, we could have an OL to boast about for the next ~10 years. we don't really need to draft a guard, as I think Bass or Hoffman, can just slide into Martin's RG position
  • or go DT in the first and LT in the second as there are some good LT options available in the second like Erserly or Conerly in top of the 2nd. as much as we have been burned by Michigan DL men, then maybe target Graham in the first to shore up that DT spot. or perhaps a walter Nolen, who has great size, is a run stopper already and needs to gain more experience as a pass rusher up the middle. we just have to shore up the middle of the DL. if we draft OL in the first, which is what I am advocating for, then we can settle for someone like Harmon or Williams from Ohio state in the top of the 2nd if they fall that far.

then we can grab WR or RB in the 3rd round. if we don't shore up OL and DL, we are going nowhere fast and will have more of the same. Dowdle is servicable. in a bad year he got over a 1000 yards. he is not a game breaker, but solid enough. give him better OL and he will do better. I know some want to draft a WR in the first, to pair with CD, but that's flash and having an OL, that's not a sieve is going to help tremendously. there are some FA WR and RBs available that won't be too costly. right up Jerry's alley.

I would hope we can resign Osa, and then have a DL that includes Parsons, Osa, Graham, Kneeland. and an OL that would be Banks, Smith, Beebee, Bass, Guyton.

I doubt if this happens or unfolds this way. this plan doesn't have enough flash for Jerry.
 
I would like to move on from Steele but it is not happening, Jethro has too much money invested.

I would be willing to let the OL stand for this season unless we could get a good vet reasonably.

DL is where both the money and picks needs to go. we need at least 2 DTs and 1 DE at a minimum and one more of each would be nice. And they have to be players. Not jags.
 
I love the idea of building from inside out, and start with the trenches.
With that said, on the OL.......why invest any more high draft picks or assets in it?

If this team needs 1st rounders at every position on the line, and can't develop anyone that doesn't have a 1st round pedigree............then get better coaches.

This team has way too many needs to be worried with adding more OL right now, especially since Martin hasn't retired or moved on yet (as far as I know).

I wonder what the new OC and OL coach will think of what they already have ? ? ?
 
Dalmations202 said:
I love the idea of building from inside out, and start with the trenches.
With that said, on the OL.......why invest any more high draft picks or assets in it?

If this team needs 1st rounders at every position on the line, and can't develop anyone that doesn't have a 1st round pedigree............then get better coaches.

This team has way too many needs to be worried with adding more OL right now, especially since Martin hasn't retired or moved on yet (as far as I know).

I wonder what the new OC and OL coach will think of what they already have ? ? ?
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Nope. Need better grocery pickers. You cannot develop non-NFL talent into NFL talent. Doesn't work that way. We focus on the wrong traits, that's our problem. Fortunately, Bebe fell to us due his shorter arms, and he looks like a player. What makes him a player? Strong as a bull, mean as a snake, and has some athleticism.
 
kskboys said:
Nope. Need better grocery pickers. You cannot develop non-NFL talent into NFL talent. Doesn't work that way. We focus on the wrong traits, that's our problem. Fortunately, Bebe fell to us due his shorter arms, and he looks like a player. What makes him a player? Strong as a bull, mean as a snake, and has some athleticism.
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Can the Dallas Cowboys find these players 3rd and down ?
Larry Allen was a second round pick.
Erik Williams was a third round pick

Not sure why we have so many first rounders used already, and we think we need more.

Won't argue the grocery pickers, but will argue that some can be developed if they have the right traits, but not the strength yet, etc.
 
1st round pick: Smith and Guyton
Big Money: Steele
3rd Round pick: Beebe
4/5ths of the OL has a significant investment attached to them. How much more does it take?
I'd lean more towards getting the current OL one of these Top projected RBs in the draft to help them out, and a better run scheme and OL Coach.
 
Mr_437 said:
1st round pick: Smith and Guyton and Martin
Big Money: Steele
3rd Round pick: Beebe
4/5ths of the OL has a significant investment attached to them. How much more does it take?
I'd lean more towards getting the current OL one of these Top projected RBs in the draft to help them out, and a better run scheme and OL Coach.
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Add to it Zack Martin 1st round and highest paid and it is 5/5's at the present time (depending on whether he retires or decides to play another year)
 
Much of this depends on the new HC and his staff.
Then how McClay puts together the big board on the new staffs wants and needs.
How do they want to build the team. Well, if the FO allows any real input from them.
 
Dalmations202 said:
I love the idea of building from inside out, and start with the trenches.
With that said, on the OL.......why invest any more high draft picks or assets in it?

If this team needs 1st rounders at every position on the line, and can't develop anyone that doesn't have a 1st round pedigree............then get better coaches.

This team has way too many needs to be worried with adding more OL right now, especially since Martin hasn't retired or moved on yet (as far as I know).

I wonder what the new OC and OL coach will think of what they already have ? ? ?
Click to expand...
good and fair points. I think the reason I mentioned is that they made investment (picks) but it was the wrong investment, as Guyton is clearly not the LT type, based on his performance and struggles this year. may he develop into one? we have to wait and see. so you don't keep a bad investment, because you made an investment. its sunk cost. look forward to what needs to be done to improve. we also made investment in Steele and his injury perhaps derailed him. you can't hold on to the investment, although its looking like a bad one. you make a move to improve it. btw, it wouldn't be the first time we have done that, as we had Martin, Fredrick, Tyron as first round picks on the OL and probably the best OL we had and results were good.

I also agree, this team has a lot of need and my point was build from inside out, have long term plan, not one year plan.
 
CowboysFaninHouston said:
good and fair points. I think the reason I mentioned is that they made investment (picks) but it was the wrong investment, as Guyton is clearly not the LT type, based on his performance and struggles this year. may he develop into one? we have to wait and see. so you don't keep a bad investment, because you made an investment. its sunk cost. look forward to what needs to be done to improve. we also made investment in Steele and his injury perhaps derailed him. you can't hold on to the investment, although its looking like a bad one. you make a move to improve it. btw, it wouldn't be the first time we have done that, as we had Martin, Fredrick, Tyron as first round picks on the OL and probably the best OL we had and results were good.

I also agree, this team has a lot of need and my point was build from inside out, have long term plan, not one year plan.
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I agree with build from inside out and the long term plan, and I think they had one.......they just don't adapt every year like they should because they are not good at evaluating or developing talent, IMO.

With that said, when we had the Martin, Fredbeard, Tyron, Dak on his rookie deal, younger Zeke, Witten --- did I miss it, or what did we win with the great OL, eventual highest paid player in the NFL, leading rusher, and a pro-bowl TE ?

I guess I missed the actual winning in the playoffs part of it. I must have been taking a nap.

Seems like more (better) assets on the defensive side of the ball might have helped those teams, especially on the interior DL and MLB. We still seem to have those issues and we still don't seem to see it as an issue even when that is one of the constants of these last decades.
 
Dalmations202 said:
Can the Dallas Cowboys find these players 3rd and down ?
Larry Allen was a second round pick.
Erik Williams was a third round pick

Not sure why we have so many first rounders used already, and we think we need more.

Won't argue the grocery pickers, but will argue that some can be developed if they have the right traits, but not the strength yet, etc.
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Not w/ Jerry in charge. He sabotages everything.

OF course, but the traits must be there. We constantly pick guys in rounds 3-7 that lack NFL traits. Reggie Robinson and Eric Scott are great examples. Stiff as a board, and that cannot be taught/coached up. They will never cover at a high level.

Traits a player must have:

1)NFL talent. That's why awesome dudes like Bill Bates and Jeff Heath just cannot start.
2)Want to. If the talent is there, desire must be there, or at least be in reach. Haynesworth comes to mind, who was a HOFer when he wanted to play.
3)Position. The coaches must absolutely put the player in the right position. Byron Jones wasn't good until the moved him to corner. Randy White was looking like a bust until they moved him to DT. Gurode was a bust until Tuna moved him to Center.
4)Instincts. The game is too fast to rely purely on speed. (Aside from a very few players.) Look at Sean Lee. 4.8 forty. How did he even get there: I swear, he'd take off when the ball was snapped and was already there when the ball got there. Freaky. Drafting guys w/ no instincts like Bruce Campbell and Bobby Carpenter is useless.

While it's true that we don't develop players well, we also don't draft many players capable of being developed.
 
Dalmations202 said:
I agree with build from inside out and the long term plan, and I think they had one.......they just don't adapt every year like they should because they are not good at evaluating or developing talent, IMO.

With that said, when we had the Martin, Fredbeard, Tyron, Dak on his rookie deal, younger Zeke, Witten --- did I miss it, or what did we win with the great OL, eventual highest paid player in the NFL, leading rusher, and a pro-bowl TE ?

I guess I missed the actual winning in the playoffs part of it. I must have been taking a nap.

Seems like more (better) assets on the defensive side of the ball might have helped those teams, especially on the interior DL and MLB. We still seem to have those issues and we still don't seem to see it as an issue even when that is one of the constants of these last decades.
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I don't think they have a plan. Sure isn't apparent if they do. It looks like Jerry just takes players willynilly and expects the coach to fit them in. Look at the Roy Williams trade. RW was a slant runner, it was his bread and butter. Sooooooooo, what was the problem? Romo was terrible at throwing slants.
 
The OL played well after Zack Martin went down. I wouldn’t mind a mid round pick. But I’m done with the 1st round OL. This is the only team in the league that sinks so many premium resources in OL. It doesn’t work. Do better scouting and find some gems like normal teams. Hoffman has earned the right to start in 2025.
 
CowboysFaninHouston said:
this is a deeper RB draft, although I would love to have Jeanty, I don't think he is going to fix what ails cowboys, and I suspect Jerry might make this pick if he is available since he is thinking how many jerseys I could sell.

we have to fix the OL and DL and I would start with one of two options.

  • we have to get rid of Steele, he is cooked. he has zero lateral mobility, specially to his left. he was abused this year. he can't play any longer and is a big liability. I don't expect jerry to cut him, since he is not close to the end of his contract and jerry hates dead cap money, but we should cut Steele, move Guyton to the RT, his more natural spot as he really struggled as a LT and draft a LT in the first round, just like we did with Tyron Smith. someone like Kelvin Banks Jr, who is a pure LT from a big program. now, we could have an OL to boast about for the next ~10 years. we don't really need to draft a guard, as I think Bass or Hoffman, can just slide into Martin's RG position
  • or go DT in the first and LT in the second as there are some good LT options available in the second like Erserly or Conerly in top of the 2nd. as much as we have been burned by Michigan DL men, then maybe target Graham in the first to shore up that DT spot. or perhaps a walter Nolen, who has great size, is a run stopper already and needs to gain more experience as a pass rusher up the middle. we just have to shore up the middle of the DL. if we draft OL in the first, which is what I am advocating for, then we can settle for someone like Harmon or Williams from Ohio state in the top of the 2nd if they fall that far.

then we can grab WR or RB in the 3rd round. if we don't shore up OL and DL, we are going nowhere fast and will have more of the same. Dowdle is servicable. in a bad year he got over a 1000 yards. he is not a game breaker, but solid enough. give him better OL and he will do better. I know some want to draft a WR in the first, to pair with CD, but that's flash and having an OL, that's not a sieve is going to help tremendously. there are some FA WR and RBs available that won't be too costly. right up Jerry's alley.

I would hope we can resign Osa, and then have a DL that includes Parsons, Osa, Graham, Kneeland. and an OL that would be Banks, Smith, Beebee, Bass, Guyton.

I doubt if this happens or unfolds this way. this plan doesn't have enough flash for Jerry.
Click to expand...
How dare you post a football thread in the HateJerryZone!! Lol
 
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