The so called "postionless" Players, no bueno for Cowboys

[Cowboyny]

We hear the term positionless more in basketball as it's a player who can guard any position. We rarely do we hear it in football, but with the league changing to more of a pass first.

Against the pass, it's beneficial to have as many coverage type players as possible, ones who can match-up against the quick backs, covering the big TE's and even play as the nickel slot. To have these traits is very rare, we had Darren Woodson years ago who excelled in such a role for the defense. JOK, Nasirildeen, Holland, all fit these type of hybrid role.

However, to be able to play these type of players, your defense up front has be stout at stopping the run, which the Cowboys are clearly not at this juncture. If opposing teams see undersized defenders against a team who struggles stopping the run with normal personnel, they will call running plays until we stop them. All likelyhood force the Cowboys to change the personnel on the field.

Point is, it is a very bad idea for this Cowboy Team to target such a unique player at this time. They have to fix their run defense before they can even start to get creative.

 

[KingintheNorth]

Target? Maybe agree.

Draft? Yes in the right situation.

If JOK is the BPA, or we have a shot at Hamsah Nasirildeen in the 3rd, and also a BPA situation, you take them. Play chess.

Kam Chancellor was a "positionless player" for the Seahawks coming out of Virginia Tech; we just didn't know to call him that yet.

https://draftace.com/profiles/2010/kam_chancellor.htm
Strengths:
Elite size and strength. A very physical defender. At his best in run support; acts as an extra linebacker.
Weaknesses:
Coverage skills are lacking. Does not look fluid when he needs to turn and run with a receiver. Speed is marginal. Primarily played free safety in college but will need to move to strong safety at the next level due to his size and lack of coverage skills.
Comments:
Chancellor is an elite run defender for a safety, but he isn't the complete package. While he can certainly contribute at the next level, he lacks the athletic ability to ever be a force in coverage. He projects as a solid backup and special teams contributor which helps his stock, but he may never be more than that.

 

[Cowboyny]

Target? Maybe agree.

Draft? Yes in the right situation.

If JOK is the BPA, or we have a shot at Hamsah Nasirildeen in the 3rd, and also a BPA situation, you take them. Play chess.

Kam Chancellor was a "positionless player" for the Seahawks coming out of Virginia Tech; we just didn't know to call him that yet.

https://draftace.com/profiles/2010/kam_chancellor.htm
Strengths:
Elite size and strength. A very physical defender. At his best in run support; acts as an extra linebacker.
Weaknesses:
Coverage skills are lacking. Does not look fluid when he needs to turn and run with a receiver. Speed is marginal. Primarily played free safety in college but will need to move to strong safety at the next level due to his size and lack of coverage skills.
Comments:
Chancellor is an elite run defender for a safety, but he isn't the complete package. While he can certainly contribute at the next level, he lacks the athletic ability to ever be a force in coverage. He projects as a solid backup and special teams contributor which helps his stock, but he may never be more than that.

Fine with Nasirildeen playing more of a strong safety role in the base, but would be concerned if he was playing more of a linebacker position with he and Wilson on the field at the same time.

 

[KingintheNorth]

Fine with Nasirildeen playing more of a strong safety role in the base, but would be concerned if he was playing more of a linebacker position with he and Wilson on the field at the same time.

3 Linebackers is becoming an outdated concept (who knows, it may come back around years from now).

Your third linebacker or SAM can be the "Big Nickel" or "Third Safety" type.

11 and 10 personnel is killing the traditional 3 box LB look.

 

[Mr_437]

3 Linebackers is becoming an outdated concept (who knows, it may come back around years from now).

Your third linebacker or SAM can be the "Big Nickel" or "Third Safety" type.

11 and 10 personnel is killing the traditional 3 box LB look.

Yeah I don't mind having those type of guys who could do well in nickel.

 

[cnuball21]

I don't mind rolling the dice on some of these guys just not early. It's essentially a project or a position change.

The talk of taking someone like JOK at 10 or even in a trade down is absolutely insane to me.

 

[Bigdog]

Target? Maybe agree.

Draft? Yes in the right situation.

If JOK is the BPA, or we have a shot at Hamsah Nasirildeen in the 3rd, and also a BPA situation, you take them. Play chess.

Kam Chancellor was a "positionless player" for the Seahawks coming out of Virginia Tech; we just didn't know to call him that yet.

https://draftace.com/profiles/2010/kam_chancellor.htm
Strengths:
Elite size and strength. A very physical defender. At his best in run support; acts as an extra linebacker.
Weaknesses:
Coverage skills are lacking. Does not look fluid when he needs to turn and run with a receiver. Speed is marginal. Primarily played free safety in college but will need to move to strong safety at the next level due to his size and lack of coverage skills.
Comments:
Chancellor is an elite run defender for a safety, but he isn't the complete package. While he can certainly contribute at the next level, he lacks the athletic ability to ever be a force in coverage. He projects as a solid backup and special teams contributor which helps his stock, but he may never be more than that.

Love reading scouting reports after they been in the league for a while. I remember Tom Brady said doesn’t have the body to absorb the hits, will get killed, below average arm, should be an insurance salesman.

 

[darthseinfeld]

We hear the term positionless more in basketball as it's a player who can guard any position. We rarely do we hear it in football, but with the league changing to more of a pass first.

Against the pass, it's beneficial to have as many coverage type players as possible, ones who can match-up against the quick backs, covering the big TE's and even play as the nickel slot. To have these traits is very rare, we had Darren Woodson years ago who excelled in such a role for the defense. JOK, Nasirildeen, Holland, all fit these type of hybrid role.

However, to be able to play these type of players, your defense up front has be stout at stopping the run, which the Cowboys are clearly not at this juncture. If opposing teams see undersized defenders against a team who struggles stopping the run with normal personnel, they will call running plays until we stop them. All likelyhood force the Cowboys to change the personnel on the field.

Point is, it is a very bad idea for this Cowboy Team to target such a unique player at this time. They have to fix their run defense before they can even start to get creative.

Nasirildeen and Holland fit as traditional SS and FS respectively as well. Both these players are very much on my list. Holland moreso because I would prefer to keep Wilson at SS

 

[Cowboyny]

Nasirildeen and Holland fit as traditional SS and FS respectively as well. Both these players are very much on my list. Holland moreso because I would prefer to keep Wilson at SS

I agree about Nasirildeen as a SS, but I don't believe Holland can play FS on the NFL Level, more of a nickel/corner.

 

[Cowboyny]

3 Linebackers is becoming an outdated concept (who knows, it may come back around years from now).

Your third linebacker or SAM can be the "Big Nickel" or "Third Safety" type.

11 and 10 personnel is killing the traditional 3 box LB look.

We are seeing a lot of 4-2-5 on a given play as team's are in the nickel 80% of the time. The issue I see with the Cowboys is their inability to stop the run, even in their base defense. Putting undersized hybrid players, like JOK onto the field doesn't help that area whatsoever, matter of fact he makes it worse. Fix the trenches, then you can think about adding such unique players to the defense.

 

[KingintheNorth]

The issue I see with the Cowboys is their inability to stop the run

Putting undersized hybrid players, like JOK onto the field doesn't help that area whatsoever

You might be right, but personally, I blame our inability to stop the run on two things:

1) The Front Office adopting Marinelli's view on 3Techs. When I read Stephen Jones statement that "we want 1Tech's with 3Tech-like ability" I knew we were screwed. I will say it until I die, you need to get interior guys who are selfless, willing to suck up blocking and take up space.

2) The culture/environment. The lack of defensive toughness is due to these guys not really being accountable to the coaching staff and not truly fearing the consequences of poor performance. The best defensive players I have ever coached or been around felt making stops was almost life or death. The Cowboys defense just wants to celebrate irrelevant plays and cash checks. Exhibit A? Jaylon Smith. Exhibit B? Look at how this defense reacted when guys came in and started playing meaningful, physical defense. Rolando McClain played hard and the defense followed suit. We even got a little bump in 2019 when Michael Bennett came in. The guys see these type of players selling out to make plays and they step up their game. However, as soon as there is any real adversity, they resort back to their prior ways. That's where coaching is supposed to come in. Maybe Dan Quinn makes some difference in this area.

 

[cnuball21]

We are seeing a lot of 4-2-5 on a given play as team's are in the nickel 80% of the time. The issue I see with the Cowboys is their inability to stop the run, even in their base defense. Putting undersized hybrid players, like JOK onto the field doesn't help that area whatsoever, matter of fact he makes it worse. Fix the trenches, then you can think about adding such unique players to the defense.

Agreed. Run D is our biggest weakness...we need DTs that can anchor and LBs with instincts that can get off blocks.

JOK would be a fun project for another team to roll the dice on but not for us.

 

[Cowboyny]

Agreed. Run D is our biggest weakness...we need DTs that can anchor and LBs with instincts that can get off blocks.

JOK would be a fun project for another team to roll the dice on but not for us.

We also have to remember, we are moving away from a complicated system to more of a simplistic one. JOK's strengths will not be used to the fullest in this defense.

 

[Cowboyny]

You might be right, but personally, I blame our inability to stop the run on two things:

1) The Front Office adopting Marinelli's view on 3Techs. When I read Stephen Jones statement that "we want 1Tech's with 3Tech-like ability" I knew we were screwed. I will say it until I die, you need to get interior guys who are selfless, willing to suck up blocking and take up space.

2) The culture/environment. The lack of defensive toughness is due to these guys not really being accountable to the coaching staff and not truly fearing the consequences of poor performance. The best defensive players I have ever coached or been around felt making stops was almost life or death. The Cowboys defense just wants to celebrate irrelevant plays and cash checks. Exhibit A? Jaylon Smith. Exhibit B? Look at how this defense reacted when guys came in and started playing meaningful, physical defense. Rolando McClain played hard and the defense followed suit. We even got a little bump in 2019 when Michael Bennett came in. The guys see these type of players selling out to make plays and they step up their game. However, as soon as there is any real adversity, they resort back to their prior ways. That's where coaching is supposed to come in. Maybe Dan Quinn makes some difference in this area.

King, after watching today's NFC Championship, it is evident to me that fixing the trenches on both sides of the football is the priority. Hope is Quinn is a former defensive line coach who will make it a priority to make necessary changes up front. Let's hope he pick better players and prioritizes certain positions that have been neglected for years like DT, FS.

This Cowboy Team under the Jones Family has always been star driven, not working as a unit. They litter the team will a few pro bowl players, but don't have many middle men what so ever. It's either a star or a undrafted fa. The whole strategy the way they build the team just doesn't work. You need players to do the dirty work, so your stars can shine, can't have your star players overcompenstating for lack of talent within the defense.

 

[cnuball21]

We also have to remember, we are moving away from a complicated system to more of a simplistic one. JOK's strengths will not be used to the fullest in this defense.

Agreed. I like the kid, but don't see a fit in our scheme at all unless he changes positions in which case I'm not drafting him early at all.

 

[Malhavoc]

No use in having chess pieces if you don’t fortify the interior on your DL.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Defense is becoming more of a positionless game, but it's not something you're going to see in Dallas. Marinelli ran a super vanilla zone D, who knows what the hell Mike Nolan was trying to run, and we just hired Dan Quinn who made his bones running a super vanilla zone D.

Vanilla zone defense can still work in the league - Eberflus runs a bunch with the Colts. But I don't think it's any surprise that out of the 4 contenders we saw play today, the Chiefs, Bucs and Packers all run very amorphous, flexible, man-heavy schemes on D (tbh, I haven't watched enough Bills football to know what they run).

Anyway, we're not the kind of team who's going to make the best use of JOK. Heck, we probably wouldn't even make the best use out of Parsons, as he's a wildly talented blitzer but Seahawks style Cover 3 doesn't really call for that. The guy we want is a traditional run-and-chase Will backer, like prime Sean Lee or Deion Jones.

JOK would probably be a strong safety here, which would be an interesting role because he's already in that Bam-Bam Kam zone halfway between LB and SS. But you would have to teach him deep coverage and hope he can turn and look for balls thrown 40 yards, so still a square peg there.