Ufc 137

[Sasquatch]

A bit disappointed that BJ couldn't anything going against Diaz after the first round. He seemed winded early and this was supposed to be in tip-top shape. I think his talk of retirement may be true given his overall demeanor in the cage tonight which seemed haggard and disinterested. A bit surprising considering that all reports indicated he had a very good camp.

 

[TheCount]

BJ's been done for a while. I knew as soon as he went back up to Welterweight and said he wanted to "fight as many times as possible", that all he was interested in was cashing a couple more checks before he retired. His loses to Edgar crushed him, it was the first time in his entire career he wasn't particularly competitive against an opponent and being that BJ has always been the type of guy that relied more on natural talent than hard work, I think it did a lot of damage to his fighting spirit.

 

[tupperware]

Kongo fight was boring as crap.

 

[Sasquatch]

Kongo fight was boring as crap.

Not the best card, for sure. Diaz/GSP and Silva/Sonnen II on same card for super bowl?

 

[Sasquatch]

BJ's been done for a while. I knew as soon as he went back up to Welterweight and said he wanted to "fight as many times as possible", that all he was interested in was cashing a couple more checks before he retired. His loses to Edgar crushed him, it was the first time in his entire career he wasn't particularly competitive against an opponent and being that BJ has always been the type of guy that relied more on natural talent than hard work, I think it did a lot of damage to his fighting spirit.

Yup, he looks too sluggish as a welterweight now as if the extra pounds wear him down.

 

[BigWillie]

BJ's been done for a while. I knew as soon as he went back up to Welterweight and said he wanted to "fight as many times as possible", that all he was interested in was cashing a couple more checks before he retired. His loses to Edgar crushed him, it was the first time in his entire career he wasn't particularly competitive against an opponent and being that BJ has always been the type of guy that relied more on natural talent than hard work, I think it did a lot of damage to his fighting spirit.

After his losses to Edgar, he stopped Hughes within 1 minute, and took it to Jon Fitch to get a draw. But he was 'crushed'?

BJ's skills have never, and still aren't an issue at all. The same single thing killed him last night as it has his entire career - cardio.

To say that he was about cashing checks is a slap int he face to someone who has had a career like BJ has. A guy who is a natural '55er, who went as far up to fight a 220lbs Lyoto Machida to a decision when BJ was weighing only about 185 himself in that fight.

It's never been about money for BJ. He comes from an EXTREMELY wealthy family which meant he never had to fight, not even a single time in his life and still be financially secure throughout his entire life. And really, BJ came into this sport when there was little money to be made. When he began, sponsorship money was rare, there was no broadcast TV money, and no huge PPV revenues. He, as well as the other guys back then, just fought because they loved it and could earn a modest living.

It's just silly to say BJ was fighting for money. Extremely silly.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

BJ just wasn't BJ anymore on Saturday night.

He just doesn't have it in him anymore I don't think. His cardio was once again poor, as has been a problem for him his entire career.

 

[TheCount]

After his losses to Edgar, he stopped Hughes within 1 minute, and took it to Jon Fitch to get a draw. But he was 'crushed'?

BJ's skills have never, and still aren't an issue at all. The same single thing killed him last night as it has his entire career - cardio.

To say that he was about cashing checks is a slap int he face to someone who has had a career like BJ has. A guy who is a natural '55er, who went as far up to fight a 220lbs Lyoto Machida to a decision when BJ was weighing only about 185 himself in that fight.

It's never been about money for BJ. He comes from an EXTREMELY wealthy family which meant he never had to fight, not even a single time in his life and still be financially secure throughout his entire life. And really, BJ came into this sport when there was little money to be made. When he began, sponsorship money was rare, there was no broadcast TV money, and no huge PPV revenues. He, as well as the other guys back then, just fought because they loved it and could earn a modest living.

It's just silly to say BJ was fighting for money. Extremely silly.

You're not telling me anything I haven't heard before.

BJ's reliance on natural talent, and less so on game planning and/or training is common knowledge. I'm not the first one to comment on it.

The last time BJ was REALLY in shape was against Diego Sanchez, who he pummeled for 5 rounds without gassing out. You never know what version of him you're going to get, focused and in shape or disinterested and out of shape.

He's not young anymore, all the nonsense he could get away with when he was younger, he can't anymore and of course what does he go and do instead of rededicating himself? Quit.

I've always been a big fan of his, but he whined like a baby after that fight. It was a punk move.

 

[BigWillie]

You're not telling me anything I haven't heard before.

BJ's reliance on natural talent, and less so on game planning and/or training is common knowledge. I'm not the first one to comment on it.

The last time BJ was REALLY in shape was against Diego Sanchez, who he pummeled for 5 rounds without gassing out. You never know what version of him you're going to get, focused and in shape or disinterested and out of shape.

He's not young anymore, all the nonsense he could get away with when he was younger, he can't anymore and of course what does he go and do instead of rededicating himself? Quit.

I've always been a big fan of his, but he whined like a baby after that fight. It was a punk move.

Great response - except for the fact it doesn't directly address my issue with your previous comments, instead side-stepping only to discuss BJ's talent, or lack thereof IYO, now.

You would be better off, instead of calling Penn 'disinterested' in training, by discussing why a 160lbs man is fighting 10lbs heavier than his own walking weight, having to pack on mass by using heavy weights while in training, not even able to make 170lbs still, and then suffering the effects of not being able to properly heal his muscles in-between lifting sessions. Then, and maybe then, you wouldn't say he is collecting checks, or disinterested in fighting.

Now I'm sure that will only justify your thought that BJ moved up in weight, even knowing the response his body would have, just to collect paychecks in fights. But the biggest thing is - when has a weight class, or difference in weight stop BJ Penn from fighting anyone during his entire career? Or was he all about the money even when he went to K1 and ROTR, barely collecting 5 figure sums, to fight 185+ fighters?

 

[TheCount]

Great response - except for the fact it doesn't directly address my issue with your previous comments, instead side-stepping only to discuss BJ's talent, or lack thereof IYO, now.

You would be better off, instead of calling Penn 'disinterested' in training, by discussing why a 160lbs man is fighting 10lbs heavier than his own walking weight, having to pack on mass by using heavy weights while in training, not even able to make 170lbs still, and then suffering the effects of not being able to properly heal his muscles in-between lifting sessions. Then, and maybe then, you wouldn't say he is collecting checks, or disinterested in fighting.

Now I'm sure that will only justify your thought that BJ moved up in weight, even knowing the response his body would have, just to collect paychecks in fights. But the biggest thing is - when has a weight class, or difference in weight stop BJ Penn from fighting anyone during his entire career? Or was he all about the money even when he went to K1 and ROTR, barely collecting 5 figure sums, to fight 185+ fighters?

To be honest, I don't even know what you're going on about anymore. Yeah, I think he's more than happy to cash those checks. You're acting like being from money ever stopped anyone from wanting more of it. You make it sound like I said BJ was never down for a fight.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Beyond just BJ and rather his heart is or isn't in this anymore (and I don't believe it is) I saw during the Ultimate Fighter last night an advertisement for Shogun and Hendo coming up on the 19th.

With my computer down at home (Hard drive is fried so I have to wait till after income tax time to get a new one) I haven't been able to keep up with the UFC the way I wanted. I had no idea these two had a fight coming up but I'm definately looking forward to it.

 

[Ren]

Beyond just BJ and rather his heart is or isn't in this anymore (and I don't believe it is) I saw during the Ultimate Fighter last night an advertisement for Shogun and Hendo coming up on the 19th.

With my computer down at home (Hard drive is fried so I have to wait till after income tax time to get a new one) I haven't been able to keep up with the UFC the way I wanted. I had no idea these two had a fight coming up but I'm definately looking forward to it.

Hendo is the kind of guy that could easily beat Shogun, can't wait for that fight i think it's gonna be a brawl

 

[Sasquatch]

Hendo is the kind of guy that could easily beat Shogun, can't wait for that fight i think it's gonna be a brawl

Hendo is fun to watch. I was pretty shocked when he lost to Jake Shields, though. Shields gained my respect that fight by weathering some of Hendo's devastating strikes.

 

[BigWillie]

To be honest, I don't even know what you're going on about anymore. Yeah, I think he's more than happy to cash those checks. You're acting like being from money ever stopped anyone from wanting more of it. You make it sound like I said BJ was never down for a fight.

:laugh2:

You talk about BJ just collecting checks, then start with BJ obviously doesn't even train properly because of his cardio, to I don't know what you are talking about.

Dude.

BJ has spent a big majority of his career in weight classes above where he should be fighting. If you watch videos of BJ the day of the weigh-in of his last fight, you see the guy eating food just so he can pack on weight to even be close to 170. The issues he has had with cardio have almost always been as a result of him putting on bad weight, either from strength training or eating, just to have the mass to fight MUCH larger fighters.

However, when BJ had his career at '55, how many times did you see him gas?

Florian? Nope.
Sanchez? Nope.
Sherk? Nope.
Uno? Nope.
Pulver x2? Nope.
Serra? Nope.
Edgar x1? Nope. (Second fight he did fade late in fight)
Thomas? Nope.
Gomi? Nope.
Stevenson? Nope.

His cardio IS an issue - when he fights larger fighters. Him just wanting paid, or losing his will to fight are NOT an issue, as you seem to think.