US National American Football Team gets blown out by Japan

RustyBourneHorse said:
Maybe, but they are developing overseas.
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I am surprised its happening to be honest. BUT when a planet is pushing towards 8 billion people anything is possible.
It is interesting because football is the most expensive sport around pretty much; if you are not talking cars and boats and such.
Now how far it will go is a big question; I have always been very skeptical of the NFL attempt to grow it overseas
But at a sort of club level or something like that I can see it happening now
 
gtb1943 said:
I am surprised its happening to be honest. BUT when a planet is pushing towards 8 billion people anything is possible.
It is interesting because football is the most expensive sport around pretty much; if you are not talking cars and boats and such.
Now how far it will go is a big question; I have always been very skeptical of the NFL attempt to grow it overseas
But at a sort of club level or something like that I can see it happening now
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Well, yeah, and what I think is needed is more exposure of those leagues. Maybe see if some of those players can be invited to a few combines. Who knows? A team might find a gem.
 
gtb1943 said:
Actually a better grade of College talent should still get the job done. There is a huge difference up to NFL level. Remember the old All Star Game putting a college all star team vs the NFL champs and how the college team always got pretty much wiped?
Right now the rest of the world is getting just past Division 3 level maybe with their best.
Now one problem with this is college players with pro aspirations risking injury; which is not going to happen. Getting good enough players will be a problem in say ten years or so; depends on how popular US Football really is overseas.
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i think the standard overseas is a lot higher than D3. In the better leagues e.g. GFL, Japan, FLE etc is probably closer to mid to low ranking FCS teams i.e.Ivy League etc.

The top Divisions in mid-ranking European countries are at about D3 level. Top teams in smaller countries are at about high school level.
 
csirl said:
https://usafootball.com/media-cente...-team-for-2024-ifaf-world-junior-championship

If you look at USA Footballs press release you'll see that recent teams have included multiple players who've been NFL All-Pro or Pro-Bowlers and 15 x 1st round draft picks. USA isnt fielding scrub teams .
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so the talent has been there pretty much. I thought that they were not all that, which means it comes down to coaching. Also how long they had to work together. Pick up teams often do not do well. still if the talent has been there its even more embarrassing. Very surprised at that; did not think there was that much talent playing American Football out there; it sure never seems to make it to the NFL and you would think people that good would want to try. This seems a little strange.
 
gtb1943 said:
so the talent has been there pretty much. I thought that they were not all that, which means it comes down to coaching. Also how long they had to work together. Pick up teams often do not do well. still if the talent has been there its even more embarrassing. Very surprised at that; did not think there was that much talent playing American Football out there; it sure never seems to make it to the NFL and you would think people that good would want to try. This seems a little strange.
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All the other national teans are also pick up teams that dont play or train together much. Players train/play for their own local team and only come together for the tournament. Probably have less time together than the US team as their national Federation is unlikely to have the funds to arrange lengthy camps etc.
 
csirl said:
All the other national teans are also pick up teams that dont play or train together much. Players train/play for their own local team and only come together for the tournament. Probably have less time together than the US team as their national Federation is unlikely to have the funds to arrange lengthy camps etc.
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Which makes it even worse for us
American Football and Basketball and Baseball are our three home grown sports. True you can trace some things back elsewhere; rounders and rugby for example
But they are true american sports. And Football seemed to be the one where we could always believe in our dominance. Now even that is in question
Now as regards the NFL I am pretty certain no team anywhere in the world; even an all star team; could beat the best NFL team. Not even sure they could beat the college champions.
But now I have to wonder about anything below that. I mean in baseball and basketball our best is still better than the rest of the world; unless you get a world team which would be another story.
 
gtb1943 said:
Which makes it even worse for us
American Football and Basketball and Baseball are our three home grown sports. True you can trace some things back elsewhere; rounders and rugby for example
But they are true american sports. And Football seemed to be the one where we could always believe in our dominance. Now even that is in question
Now as regards the NFL I am pretty certain no team anywhere in the world; even an all star team; could beat the best NFL team. Not even sure they could beat the college champions.
But now I have to wonder about anything below that. I mean in baseball and basketball our best is still better than the rest of the world; unless you get a world team which would be another story.
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I could see a team from another country, probably Japan, growing to a point where they might be able to give a team like the Panthers a serious run for their money in about 10-15 years.
 
RustyBourneHorse said:
I could see a team from another country, probably Japan, growing to a point where they might be able to give a team like the Panthers a serious run for their money in about 10-15 years.
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the key to that would be a program that has that as its goal. But honestly with the fact that no country anywhere has the college farm system the US does as regards the top talent makes me doubt it really can happen.
 
gtb1943 said:
the key to that would be a program that has that as its goal. But honestly with the fact that no country anywhere has the college farm system the US does as regards the top talent makes me doubt it really can happen.
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I agree about the college system, but I will counter that other countries use academies for other sports. Especially Euro football (aka soccer). So, I wonder if they are using an American Football Academy. Either way, I could see them producing a college system. Or, the other thing is that there's nothing stopping colleges from sending scouts out to say Japan, and watching HS games there. Think of the Australians that have made it since Bennett and McBriar. What's stopping them from sending scouts for similar purposes?
 
The great untapped resource is high school aged athletes. Colleges just arent scouting in Europe. The coaching and set up for the better club sides in Europe isnt that different to the average US high school. No reason why they shouldnt produce the same % of college football players as US high schools. Surely you'll find some good players in a country like Germany which has 60,000 registered players (an average sized US State has only 25,000).
 
RustyBourneHorse said:
I agree about the college system, but I will counter that other countries use academies for other sports. Especially Euro football (aka soccer). So, I wonder if they are using an American Football Academy. Either way, I could see them producing a college system. Or, the other thing is that there's nothing stopping colleges from sending scouts out to say Japan, and watching HS games there. Think of the Australians that have made it since Bennett and McBriar. What's stopping them from sending scouts for similar purposes?
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Producing A college system? But think of how MASSIVE the US College system is: over 5000 colleges and universities pushing 20 million students. Look at how many FCS and FBS programs there are.
I do not doubt that they can come up with a fair number of good players and probably even better than that
But to actually come even in the same galaxy as the US? NO. Remember how much a football program costs; even at Division 3 Level.
 
To give you all an idea of budgets in Europe.

A team with no imported players and volunteer coaches typically operates on a budget of c.$50k per annum. Players have to purchase their own protective equipment. Clubs will charge a membership fee of c.$350 per player, with the rest of the money coming from fundraising efforts. Typical squad size is c40 players and c.4 coaches. You'd also have a group of volunteers doing various jobs.
 
csirl said:
To give you all an idea of budgets in Europe.

A team with no imported players and volunteer coaches typically operates on a budget of c.$50k per annum. Players have to purchase their own protective equipment. Clubs will charge a membership fee of c.$350 per player, with the rest of the money coming from fundraising efforts. Typical squad size is c40 players and c.4 coaches. You'd also have a group of volunteers doing various jobs.
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and just how good are they with volunteer coaches? What is the background of those coaches? I doubt many from those teams ever amount to much.
This is a lot like semi pro here in the us. And where has that gone?
does anyone have hard numbers how many clubs and the total number of players?

I can see those thinking this will actually go somewhere close to the NFL wanting it to be true; but the brutal fact is that talent goes where the money is and soccer is still by a galaxy sized distance king in most of the world.
Europe Pro Football never got much traction and not many European players ever went anywhere. I really doubt much has changed.
Bottom line virtually no European players have made it in the NFL and most of them were kickers.
How many even make it into college football programs?
I just do not see the talent being there to go much farther than they have.

I think we are letting the outcome of this tournament mean more than it really does
 
gtb1943 said:
and just how good are they with volunteer coaches? What is the background of those coaches? I doubt many from those teams ever amount to much.
This is a lot like semi pro here in the us. And where has that gone?
does anyone have hard numbers how many clubs and the total number of players?

I can see those thinking this will actually go somewhere close to the NFL wanting it to be true; but the brutal fact is that talent goes where the money is and soccer is still by a galaxy sized distance king in most of the world.
Europe Pro Football never got much traction and not many European players ever went anywhere. I really doubt much has changed.
Bottom line virtually no European players have made it in the NFL and most of them were kickers.
How many even make it into college football programs?
I just do not see the talent being there to go much farther than they have.

I think we are letting the outcome of this tournament mean more than it really does
Click to expand...
On the other end of the spectrum in Europe, you have pro teams playing on front of crowds of up to 20,000, with TV deals and with full time coaches and players e.g. GFL and ELF. Same in Japan.

Most coaches in Europe are ex-players who train as coaches. Most would have many more years playing than US coaches as adult kitted football isnt really a thing in the US outside the pro leagues. In most European countries you need formal coaching training/qualifications in order to.coach (any sport incl. football). At this stage coaching is on a par with small college or high school.
 
csirl said:
On the other end of the spectrum in Europe, you have pro teams playing on front of crowds of up to 20,000, with TV deals and with full time coaches and players e.g. GFL and ELF. Same in Japan.

Most coaches in Europe are ex-players who train as coaches. Most would have many more years playing than US coaches as adult kitted football isnt really a thing in the US outside the pro leagues. In most European countries you need formal coaching training/qualifications in order to.coach (any sport incl. football). At this stage coaching is on a par with small college or high school.
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small college and high school.
Once again though if these players are that good why are none of them showing up in US Colleges and in the NFL?
 
gtb1943 said:
small college and high school.
Once again though if these players are that good why are none of them showing up in US Colleges and in the NFL?
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As I said earlier, colleges dont recruit in Europe. There's also a cultural thing whereby Europeans see college as an academic thing - sports scholarships can be seen in a negative way - theres no financial benefit to getting one and there is a perception that student athletes dont get useful degrees. In Europe college is free, even the best colleges, so kids dont need to rely on scholarships or have to be good at sport
 
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