Zone Defense

[CATCH17]

Why are we so terrible at it?

The 4th and 15 to Fitzgerald is just another example of it.


I understand now why Wade wanted to run so much man defense. Our guys just can't figure out their assignments in zone.

It's unbelievable that a group of "Pro's" aren't any better at it.


Guys like Terrence Newman can cover all day in Man but the second you put them in zone and give them an opportunity to peek in the backfield they get burnt.



Do you think it's coaching? Dumb players? Both?

 

[Kangaroo]

Why are we so terrible at it?

The 4th and 15 to Fitzgerald is just another example of it.


I understand now why Wade wanted to run so much man defense. Our guys just can't figure out their assignments in zone.

It's unbelievable that a group of "Pro's" aren't any better at it.


Guys like Terrence Newman can cover all day in Man but the second you put them in zone and give them an opportunity to peek in the backfield they get burnt.



Do you think it's coaching? Dumb players? Both?

I think it is many things (speed or lack of) players not being good at it and coaching.

The ILB's lack the speed to be able to handle the zones and a lot of times they do not get deep enough on their drops and they are slow to react to the ball.

The safeties are terrible (players) Alan Ball arrives late to where the ball is going a lot so that is part of the issue

Dave Campo need I say more about coaching

 

[Venger]

I'd have to say our lack of consistent pass pressure isn't helping... perhaps we just don't have guys with good instincts at too many spots in the zone...

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I think it is many things (speed or lack of) players not being good at it and coaching.

The ILB's lack the speed to be able to handle the zones and a lot of times they do not get deep enough on their drops and they are slow to react to the ball.

The safeties are terrible (players) Alan Ball arrives late to where the ball is going a lot so that is part of the issue

Dave Campo need I say more about coaching

That pretty much nailed it.

The safeties bite way too heavily on play action, which destroys their ability to get deep enough in their zone responsibilities.

And then you combine that with their confusion with routes that enter their zones both high & low. They seem to end up covering the wrong guy.

 

[Doomsday101]

Why are we so terrible at it?

The 4th and 15 to Fitzgerald is just another example of it.


I understand now why Wade wanted to run so much man defense. Our guys just can't figure out their assignments in zone.

It's unbelievable that a group of "Pro's" aren't any better at it.


Guys like Terrence Newman can cover all day in Man but the second you put them in zone and give them an opportunity to peek in the backfield they get burnt.



Do you think it's coaching? Dumb players? Both?

It is not so much the zone as it was only rushing 3 guys, many teams run different zone and still bring 4 rushers. Dallas gave the QB all day to stand there and find the open man. When the play 1st started I lost it when I saw only 3 rushers. Hell force the QB to have to get rid of the ball quicker would be a big help

 

[CATCH17]

It is not so much the zone as it was only rushing 3 guys, many teams run different zone and still bring 4 rushers. Dallas gave the QB all day to stand there and find the open man. When the play 1st started I lost it when I saw only 3 rushers. Hell force the QB to have to get rid of the ball quicker would be a big help

I wasn't just talking about this game.

 

[Doomsday101]

I wasn't just talking about this game.

You brought up the 4 and 15 play so I take it this game was also part of the beef. There are times that our secondary is forcing the QB to hold on to the ball even in zones one big key though is we do not seem to get the same pressure on QB's this year as we did last. Anytime a QB has time to allow his WR time to find the seams in the zone they will make the play. There is no zone coverage in the NFL that does not have openings the key becomes frocing the QB to get rid of it before the WR can get to the spot

 

[dffl11]

It is not so much the zone as it was only rushing 3 guys, many teams run different zone and still bring 4 rushers. Dallas gave the QB all day to stand there and find the open man. When the play 1st started I lost it when I saw only 3 rushers. Hell force the QB to have to get rid of the ball quicker would be a big help

nailed it for me......rush 4-5 hell even 6...but 4 at a min......dont let the WR get 25 yards down the field to get in the open area......

The flaw in zone coverage is simple, there is always routes that can and will find areas on the field to get open, if you give the QB time and the WR time to get in that area, its a complete pass 100% of the time. You can run that same exact def (back half) and rush 4-5 guys........and the QB would have to release the ball a tick sooner and the WR will not be in the open area past the "yellow line"... haha

I dont get it and prolly never will get why the rushed 3 in that 4th and 15 play

 

[DezBryant88]

lack of a pass rush like Venger said which gives opposing QB's way too much time to throw plus playing zone won't be too successful if your safeties aren't very good which is an understatement

 

[dffl11]

You brought up the 4 and 15 play so I take it this game was also part of the beef. There are times that our secondary is forcing the QB to hold on to the ball even in zones one big key though is we do not seem to get the same pressure on QB's this year as we did last. Anytime a QB has time to allow his WR time to find the seams in the zone they will make the play. There is no zone coverage in the NFL that does not have openings the key becomes frocing the QB to get rid of it before the WR can get to the spot

had i seen this post, I would not have had to waste 30 seconds typing my won response........

Great, to the point, post!

 

[Doomsday101]

had i seen this post, I would not have had to waste 30 seconds typing my won response........

Great, to the point, post!

Thanks. I don't intend to let the CB and Safety off the hook I do have an issue with guys not coming up quick and making the WR pay for the catch instead the WR often have the time to make the catch and turn it up field. Most teams who run zone have guys who make the WR pay the price with big hits. All in all this entire defense has played very poor from the front line to the secondary they all should be ashamed with the way they have played

 

[landroverking]

It's called brains or in the case of our DBs lack there of!

 

[JohnsKey19]

Why are we so terrible at it?

The 4th and 15 to Fitzgerald is just another example of it.


I understand now why Wade wanted to run so much man defense. Our guys just can't figure out their assignments in zone.

It's unbelievable that a group of "Pro's" aren't any better at it.


Guys like Terrence Newman can cover all day in Man but the second you put them in zone and give them an opportunity to peek in the backfield they get burnt.



Do you think it's coaching? Dumb players? Both?

Zone usually puts more pressure on your safeties and interior LBs in pass coverage. The better those guys are physically and instinctually, the smaller the windows will be for the QB to complete passes. With our lack of speed/quickness at ILB and lack of everything at S, it's always going to be a struggle.

Lastly, zone IMO requires football intelligence. And we all know collectively this is not a smart defensive team.

 

[dffl11]

Thanks. I don't intend to let the CB and Safety off the hook I do have an issue with guys not coming up quick and making the WR pay for the catch instead the WR often have the time to make the catch and turn it up field. Most teams who run zone have guys who make the WR pay the price with big hits. All in all this entire defense has played very poor from the front line to the secondary they all should be ashamed with the way they have played

true that! The very thing a def needs when playing in that Zone and giving the WR and QB time to find the open areas, is guys that will come up and close fast and make big hist, Dallas has had very few of those....and the entire Def should be motivated in the off season to be better next year, well at least th 4-5 guys that will be back.....

I want more of Sean Lee....Gotdman i hope he can stay healthy.

and go ahead and throw bottles at me, I cant stand Anthony Spenser any longer....the man avoids contact like its the plaque....and he absolutely kills the run defense when taking on trap blocks....Sometimes, the Cowboys are playing with 10 VS the run, thats how much he takes himself out the play......

I know he had flashes and we all wanted him to be that dominant OLB opposite of D Ware, but it just isnt working out.....

 

[Dodger]

Zone usually puts more pressure on your safeties and interior LBs in pass coverage. The better those guys are physically and instinctually, the smaller the windows will be for the QB to complete passes. With our lack of speed/quickness at ILB and lack of everything at S, it's always going to be a struggle.

Lastly, zone IMO requires football intelligence. And we all know collectively this is not a smart defensive team.

I think it's a combination of everything I've read in this thread, but especially this post. We just don't have the safeties and ILBs to play...well, any coverage, zone or man. They just don't have the ability or the intellect to pull it off.

 

[Doomsday101]

true that! The very thing a def needs when playing in that Zone and giving the WR and QB time to find the open areas, is guys that will come up and close fast and make big hist, Dallas has had very few of those....and the entire Def should be motivated in the off season to be better next year, well at least th 4-5 guys that will be back.....

I want more of Sean Lee....Gotdman i hope he can stay healthy.

and go ahead and throw bottles at me, I cant stand Anthony Spenser any longer....the man avoids contact like its the plaque....and he absolutely kills the run defense when taking on trap blocks....Sometimes, the Cowboys are playing with 10 VS the run, thats how much he takes himself out the play......

I know he had flashes and we all wanted him to be that dominant OLB opposite of D Ware, but it just isnt working out.....

My own 2 cents is I think this is Brooking last season and I do expect to see Lee being a big part of the defense. As for Spencer I have been very disappointed in him after showing much improvement last season to not back it up with a good season this year is frustrating, however I think he will be back and the reason I say that is Dallas will only be able to address only so many position in the draft and FA we can't just create more and more holes by releasing guys. Hopefully who ever is running the defense next year can get more out of these guys, I know they are capable of more

 

[jblaze2004]

Garrett or Paul P. should give Victor Butler a chance at starting...I would love to see what he has. We need to use more 3 olb packages. With ratliff and spencer on the inside rushing and ware and Butler on the outside rushing. We would add more speed on the d-line to run stunts or zone blitz's

 

[dffl11]

My own 2 cents is I think this is Brooking last season and I do expect to see Lee being a big part of the defense. As for Spencer I have been very disappointed in him after showing much improvement last season to not back it up with a good season this year is frustrating, however I think he will be back and the reason I say that is Dallas will only be able to address only so many position in the draft and FA we can't just create more and more holes by releasing guys. Hopefully who ever is running the defense next year can get more out of these guys, I know they are capable of more

Good point...and my hate for Spenc and wanting him to go is kinda hypocritical of me considering how in the other thread (Cowboys FA) im sharing with others and agreeing how a team cant just make wholesale changes...so as much as I do hate Spenc....i am sure he will be back and like you said, I hope like hell someone can come in and get him to play better....I hope his position coach can teach him how to take on some Trap blocks and how to "wrong arm"...i mean hell its 9th grade technique.......and taking on blocks in gap control defense is a key component, when you avoid contact you then leave your gap assignment and help crate lanes to run in....something i was impressed on last night with Gregg Williams Saints Def....they had great gap control.

 

[theogt]

I don't think anyone has sufficient evidence to make blanket statements about coaching, passrush, or any single cause in particular. In each case it's seems to be a different error that can't be linked to any common cause.

On the 4th and 15 play, passrush was certainly not an issue. The QB got the ball off in 2.3 seconds. You can't expect a passrush to get to any QB in that amount of time.

Were were playing a Cover 3, with a 5 man zone underneath. Against that coverage in this down and distance, the offense's ideal scenario is to get your receiver downfield quickly and make a quick strike behind the underneath coverage but before the "shell" coverage. They executed that perfectly.

Our problem was that this matched up Keith Brooking (who was the deep middle on the Cover 3) up against Larry Fitzgerald 25 yards down the field. Now you can ask yourself why a defense would ever put itself in a situation like that - it's probably a good question. We could have easily had McCann or Scandrick in the deep middle. They could have gotten to the ball much more quickly than Brooking. But it seems to me, based on the video, the defense was betting heavily on a pass attempt somewhere along the first down marker rather than over the soft middle 5-7 yards past the first down marker. But they bet wrong and the Cardinals had the right play called and executed it perfectly.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Well, the 4th and 15 we rushed 3 guys. And guess who was the genius behind that idea?






YR