Pierce JR vs Mike Green-2 Edge in the class?

[Cowboyny]

If Eberflus is going to play Parsons primarily at end (which I expect), I think we have our ends. Kneeland was drafted in the second round last year for his potential as a pass rusher and strength as a run defender. If we re-sign Golston, he actually played quite well as a run-down end on the left side. Those two and the return of Williams (who is iffy, but I'd also bring back is the main reason why I'm hesitant to take an end early. I mean, if Carter fell to us, there would be no choice, but otherwise, I think there are other positions to address where the quality is as good as anyone we could get at DE at 12.

I'm not against adding another pure pressure player, and I think I would go with Green if forced to choose, but I just don't think it is a priority, especially when we spent a second-round pick on DE last year. Kneeland may turn out to be a very solid pass rusher because the skill-set is there, he's just got to learn to use it in that area.

I agree. Probably will see another Lawson/Fowler type of signing for depth purposes. Their focus has to be getting better against the run. However, at some point they are going to need that alpha opposite Parsons, kind of like with Lamb and a 1a opposite him.

 

[gimmesix]

I agree. Probably will see another Lawson/Fowler type of signing for depth purposes. Their focus has to be getting better against the run. However, at some point they are going to need that alpha opposite Parsons, kind of like with Lamb and a 1a opposite him.

I'm hopeful Kneeland can get there. He wasn't a great sack producer in college, but he has the skillset to be one. DeMarcus Lawrence (also a second-round pick) worked hard on his trade, recrafting his body and becoming technically proficient, to provide a solid threat from his DE spot. I see a similar trajectory possible for Kneeland. He's likely never going to be a 15-plus-sack guy, but he could notch some double-digit seasons. Like Lawrence, I think he's going to be strongest against the run.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I'm hopeful Kneeland can get there. He wasn't a great sack producer in college, but he has the skillset to be one. DeMarcus Lawrence (also a second-round pick) worked hard on his trade, recrafting his body and becoming technically proficient, to provide a solid threat from his DE spot. I see a similar trajectory possible for Kneeland. He's likely never going to be a 15-plus-sack guy, but he could notch some double-digit seasons. Like Lawrence, I think he's going to be strongest against the run.

I think his ceiling is a Karlaftis type of DE.

 

[gimmesix]

I agree. I see Whitecotton wanting Carl Lawson back and Eberflus wanting Golston back.
RDE - Parsons, Lawson, Williams
LDE - Golston, Kneeland, Wheat

They could absolutely use another high level premium pick at DE, but I doubt it considering all the roster holes. Mike Green over Pearce after recent news, and Green plays the game the right way...reckless.

It would be tough for me to take an end early with the other needs, but it would definitely be tempting if you thought you could get a guy who can disrupt the offense as well as Parson does.

 

[gimmesix]

I think his ceiling is a Karlaftis type of DE.

Probably a fair comparison.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Kneeland had zero sacks last year on 250 snaps and 140 pass rushes.

I'm a long ways from writing Kneeland off, but there's no guarantee he becomes a DLaw type of player. He may end up being a Chauncey Golston type of player. If a sack artist like Pearce or Green is sitting there at #12, Kneeland's not going to stop me from picking him.

 

[Cowboyny]

I'm hopeful Kneeland can get there. He wasn't a great sack producer in college, but he has the skillset to be one. DeMarcus Lawrence (also a second-round pick) worked hard on his trade, recrafting his body and becoming technically proficient, to provide a solid threat from his DE spot. I see a similar trajectory possible for Kneeland. He's likely never going to be a 15-plus-sack guy, but he could notch some double-digit seasons. Like Lawrence, I think he's going to be strongest against the run.

Think he could be a clean up type of sack guy, similar to Armstrong.

 

[gimmesix]

Think he could be a clean up type of sack guy, similar to Armstrong.

Yeah, I don't think it would be too difficult for him to get to that point. Parsons creates a lot of havoc that benefits players like him.

 

[gimmesix]

Kneeland had zero sacks last year on 250 snaps and 140 pass rushes.

I'm a long ways from writing Kneeland off, but there's no guarantee he becomes a DLaw type of player. He may end up being a Chauncey Golston type of player. If a sack artist like Pearce or Green is sitting there at #12, Kneeland's not going to stop me from picking him.

I think it's important to allocate resources properly. We need help at DT much more than we need a pass rusher at this point. You are right that we don't know what he'll become, but when you spend the resources such as a second-round pick, you need to see before throwing more resources at the same spot. If Nolen, Pierce and Green are all there, I'd go with Nolen. Of course, I think their values are similar, but if Dallas doesn't, then I'd go with Pierce or Green.

However, I do feel that if Dallas re-signs Odighizuwa to a big contract that the team is less likely to take a DT that early, so DE might be in play. Right now (without the benefit of free agency), I feel that WR and RB will be the team's priorities unless we don't re-sign Odig.

 

[Mr_437]

It would be tough for me to take an end early with the other needs, but it would definitely be tempting if you thought you could get a guy who can disrupt the offense as well as Parson does.

Yeah, I'd rather have a disruptive 3T.

 

[beware_d-ware]

I think it's important to allocate resources properly. We need help at DT much more than we need a pass rusher at this point. You are right that we don't know what he'll become, but when you spend the resources such as a second-round pick, you need to see before throwing more resources at the same spot. If Nolen, Pierce and Green are all there, I'd go with Nolen. Of course, I think their values are similar, but if Dallas doesn't, then I'd go with Pierce or Green.

However, I do feel that if Dallas re-signs Odighizuwa to a big contract that the team is less likely to take a DT that early, so DE might be in play. Right now (without the benefit of free agency), I feel that WR and RB will be the team's priorities unless we don't re-sign Odig.

I just want to draft good players. If Kneeland hits, and say Mike Green hits, and we have them plus Parsons, then boom. There's the Eagles pass rush doom-line that everyone here goes crazy for.

What I don't want to do is play the "need and scheme fit" drafting game. That's got us burned only slightly less often than the "2nd round bargain" game. We need more talent on the roster period.

Snaps are probably blocked at QB, because of Dak and his guaranteed money, snaps are definitely blocked at kicker, and I don't see any position in between where a talented rookie couldn't get major playing time.

 

[gimmesix]

I just want to draft good players. If Kneeland hits, and say Mike Green hits, and we have them plus Parsons, then boom. There's the Eagles pass rush doom-line that everyone here goes crazy for.

What I don't want to do is play the "need and scheme fit" drafting game. That's got us burned only slightly less often than the "2nd round bargain" game. We need more talent on the roster period.

Snaps are probably blocked at QB, because of Dak and his guaranteed money, snaps are definitely blocked at kicker, and I don't see any position in between where a talented rookie couldn't get major playing time.

I agree with what's in bold. I just don't know if Green is a better player than Nolen or Jeanty. I'm not advocating taking a lesser player, but if an equal or better player is available at a position of need, then I'm for it. If Abdul Carter somehow fell to our spot and Jeanty and Nolen also were available, I'd take Carter.

There are few perfect prospects in this draft and neither Green or Pierce is considered one. I think Nolen at his position has just as much value, if not more. Jeanty is considered pretty close to a perfect prospect at RB, but, of course, there's positional value to consider there. I would have no problem if we took Jeanty if he fell to our pick. He seems to be universally top 5 and is only liable to slip because of position. I mean, I think he's considered a better prospect than Jahmyr Gibbs because the questions about Gibbs had to do with size and ability to take pounding and Gibbs was taken with the 12th pick.

 

[cnuball21]

I’m now seeing more and more of both Green and Pearce having off the field issues. Bummer.

 

[visionary]

In my opinion, Abdul Carter is clearly the #1 Edge in this year's class, but #2 I think comes down to Tenn's Pierce Jr vs Marshall's Mike Green:

-The level of competition clearly goes to Pierce Jr, but you cannot ignore the 17 sacks for Green.
-Both are twitched up athletes
-Is Pierce more of a pass rush specialist? Why did he play so little snaps? Did his coaches not trust him to play against the run?
-Why wasn't Green a full time starter until last yr? Why wasn't he allowed back at Virginia?
-Both are consider below average run defenders that need to get stronger, Green might be maxed out being a former WR

These 2, like Micah, are LBs playing DEs
There is a reason their run stop grade is not good
They work in a 3-4 not 4-3 in NFL

 

[visionary]

I struggle with evaluating this new modern day edge rushers. They all look to me like 3-4 olb's then then do 4-3 DE's. We already see what struggles Parsons has against the run when he is dealing with those huge Tackles throughout a game. As a pass rusher, Pearce jumps off the screen, but not sure we can have two undersized edge players playing 4-3 DE for this team.

We shouldnt even have one let alone 2
This is a bad idea
These are 3-4 OLBs

 

[visionary]

I agree with what's in bold. I just don't know if Green is a better player than Nolen or Jeanty. I'm not advocating taking a lesser player, but if an equal or better player is available at a position of need, then I'm for it. If Abdul Carter somehow fell to our spot and Jeanty and Nolen also were available, I'd take Carter.

There are few perfect prospects in this draft and neither Green or Pierce is considered one. I think Nolen at his position has just as much value, if not more. Jeanty is considered pretty close to a perfect prospect at RB, but, of course, there's positional value to consider there. I would have no problem if we took Jeanty if he fell to our pick. He seems to be universally top 5 and is only liable to slip because of position. I mean, I think he's considered a better prospect than Jahmyr Gibbs because the questions about Gibbs had to do with size and ability to take pounding and Gibbs was taken with the 12th pick.

Gibbs was picked by a team that had 2 rd 1, 2 rd2, and 2 rd 3 picks

We have 1 each
Not even close to the same situation

Wasting 12 on Jeanty or an undersized shiny toy like Green would be a very Jerry thing to do but not the smart thing

 

[gimmesix]

Gibbs was picked by a team that had 2 rd 1, 2 rd2, and 2 rd 3 picks

We have 1 each
Not even close to the same situation

Wasting 12 on Jeanty or an undersized shiny toy like Green would be a very Jerry thing to do but not the smart thing

I'll disagree with you on Jeanty, but it will depend on what is available. I'm not going to ignore the value of the player. If he's a top-five value in this draft, he's not a waste. Of course, any player can bust, but generally, the higher value the better chance that won't happen.

Now, Green ... I could live with him as the pick because of the pass rush he'd bring, but I'd rather have the DT there all things being equal. As I've said elsewhere, I would probably pick DT over RB there as well and wait until the second round to get an RB, but I would have no problem with Jeanty and don't think it would be a foolish pick.

 

[visionary]

I'll disagree with you on Jeanty, but it will depend on what is available. I'm not going to ignore the value of the player. If he's a top-five value in this draft, he's not a waste. Of course, any player can bust, but generally, the higher value the better chance that won't happen.

Now, Green ... I could live with him as the pick because of the pass rush he'd bring, but I'd rather have the DT there all things being equal. As I've said elsewhere, I would probably pick DT over RB there as well and wait until the second round to get an RB, but I would have no problem with Jeanty and don't think it would be a foolish pick.

I cannot understand the fascination with yet another LB playing DE
Watched a video of GBag nation today in which Broaddus said that Green weighed in at the Senior Bowl at 235……..235 LOL
Think about him going up against an NFL OL with Parsons on the other side
Have we not seen what SF and GB and Detroit and Philly did to our defense running right at Parsons? And we want 2 of that?

I might never throw the ball if im the opposing OC

 

[gimmesix]

I cannot understand the fascination with yet another LB playing DE
Watched a video of GBag nation today in which Broaddus said that Green weighed in at the Senior Bowl at 235……..235 LOL
Think about him going up against an NFL OL with Parsons on the other side
Have we not seen what SF and GB and Detroit and Philly did to our defense running right at Parsons? And we want 2 of that?

I might never throw the ball if im the opposing OC

I think we'd have to be creative with his use, but Eberflus believes strongly in speed up front. Parsons and Green coming off the edges on passing downs would be difficult to handle, but we'd probably have to play Golston and Kneeland on the edges on first down. The disadvantage to that, of course, is teams don't always run it on first down.

I think if we drafted someone like Green, we'd be better off in a 3-4 with both him and Parsons, but that's not Eberflus' forte. Size isn't as important to him as quickness.

But I have concerns about Green as the pick for the reasons you listed. I have no doubt, though, that he'd give a boost to our pass rush.

 

[gimmesix]

I cannot understand the fascination with yet another LB playing DE
Watched a video of GBag nation today in which Broaddus said that Green weighed in at the Senior Bowl at 235……..235 LOL
Think about him going up against an NFL OL with Parsons on the other side
Have we not seen what SF and GB and Detroit and Philly did to our defense running right at Parsons? And we want 2 of that?

I might never throw the ball if im the opposing OC

It is one reason I hope they value Nolen as much as I do. He would give us some interior push to help Parsons be more effective and is stout against the run.

It's even why if he rises up above our pick, I would consider trading down slightly for Grant or Harmon. Grant doesn't bring as much pass rush ability, but is stout against the run, and Harmon might be a little bit better as a pass rusher than Nolen.

I think getting interior DL help might be the most important thing we could do in this draft, and that's even if we re-sign Odighizuwa.

I'm still for the first three rounds being DT, RB, DT in some combination. Of course, that depends on who is there with those picks, but that would be my default all things being equal.