Who are the starters? (center edition)

[Typhus]

Supposedly there had always been some suspicion that Frederick might shorten his career, even before his GB illness. Someone on The Break mentioned that. Did that play into the decision to select McGovern? No one has said so, but granting the assumption that they had another reason to hedge their bet on Frederick, that would likely play into any decision on drafting an olineman.

On Looney, I think he's been with the team for years, but I thought that one season we didn't resign him to a new contract, he got signed elsewhere, got cut, and we brought him back. Pretty sure that happened with someone on the oline. Thought it was Looney.

Maybe I was thinking of Cooper? We did let him go, and he signed with SF, though we didn't sign him back. Just another hallucation. Carry on.

Your probably thinking of Leary, but he signed with Denver a couple years back, but never returned here,, he is still a Donky.

 

[CowboyRoy]

As I wrote in my first thread in this series, Dallas likes to fill absolute needs in the draft so it isn't forced into taking a player at a certain position. Did the retirement of Travis Frederic catch the Cowboys off guard or do they feel they are already covered at the position? This thread is based on who I believe might start if they feel they have the position covered in-house.

IMO, the candidates for the job are Joe Looney, Connor McGovern and Adam Redmond. And I think the starter will be ...

Connor McGovern

McGovern was a bit of a surprise choice in last year's draft. We essentially had our starting five with Smith, Williams, Frederick, Martin and Collins; however, the reason given for drafting McGovern in the third round was he was the highest-rated player on Dallas' board.

There were definitely some questions about the starting left guard position after Connor Williams' rookie season, and there was even mentions that Williams might be moved to right tackle since Collins was on the last year of his deal. Collins signed a new deal, though, which meant that only Williams' spot on the line was uncertain. However, we didn't get to see if Dallas was going to let McGovern compete with Williams for that spot because McGoven got hurt.

Williams beefed up some and his play at left guard improved in his second season. For the year, he committed six penalties and gave up one sack. Still, it made sense to have him and McGovern compete for the left guard spot until Frederick announced his decision. Suddenly, drafting McGovern looked like a good job by Dallas preparing for this possibility. He was the starting center at Penn State his sophomore year. McGovern has plenty of strength and power for either spot, but has some holes in his pass protection that could make working at the most protected position along the line ideal.

The primary question for me with any center candidate is recognition skills. You need a smart player at the spot to point out what the defense is doing and make sure everyone along the line knows their assignments. This was the main problem with Joe Looney starting in 2018. Looney showed good movement skills, especially when pulling, and adequate power when he started in place of Frederick. However, there was all kinds of confusion and it seemed that Looney often would help-block with Martin and leave the rookie one-on-one against a superior DT. The physical skills are there for him to do the job, but I'm not sure the mental ones are.

Redmond might be the opposite of Looney. He seems to have a great technical understanding but lacks the physical skills needed to be the starter. He was getting driven back a whole lot last preseason. McGovern, to me, seems like he could be the best combination of both the physical and mental.

What say you?

draft a center high

 

[buybuydandavis]

Your probably thinking of Leary, but he signed with Denver a couple years back, but never returned here,, he is still a Donky.

No, I'm sure I wasn't thinking Leary. Probably I was thinking of the possibility of Cooper coming back.

 

[noshame]

With Philbin as OL coach there will be role changes, you can bank on it. Most beneficial change in coaching. Besides the red boy of course.

 

[gimmesix]

I think for now it is Looney’s job to lose. McGovern makes a lot of sense as a possibility too though. He just seems like he might be a little too raw after missing a year. Especially since even when he was participating it was at guard. Even with his college background at center it seems like a bit too soon to think he is the leading candidate to me.

That's fair. We certainly don't know what his preparation has been or how quickly he'll adjust to the pros. With Looney, I just have trouble with how much our sacks skyrocketed after he took over for Frederick. I know a lot of the problem was a left guard with Williams not being ready for the starting role and Sua'-Filo being poor in pass protection. I also know part of the problem was with Dak holding on to the ball too long (which he did much better at last year). But the center has to diagnose the defense and call out assignments and Looney just wasn't good at that. It doesn't mean McGovern will be better, though.

 

[gimmesix]

I think it'll be better if they move Connor Williams to center and let Connor McGovern play left guard. But I really think it's best to draft a C/G early in the draft.

I don't know if Williams can make that adjustment. He was a left tackle in college.

 

[gimmesix]

If Connor Williams is healthy:
OC McGovern
LG CW
Game Day interior backup Looney

If Connor Williams is not 100% healthy:
OC Looney
LG McGovern

Only issue with McGovern is how he holds and snaps the ball. He holds it at basically at a 90 degree angle from the way Frederick did.

If Dallas thinks he's going to be the starting center, they should try to get him as many snaps with Dak as possible.

 

[gimmesix]

Most likely they've penciled in McGovern at C, Williams at LG.

I think we let Looney walk in 2018, SF picked him up, SF cut him, and we picked him back up. We weren't enamored.

And then last year he didn't get on the field at LG until everyone else broke. Was never considered in the competition at LG despite starting at C all of 2018.

Williams is an outside possibility at C. I could see them taking a look.

Possible we take a starting quality C in the draft if one presents as a real value pick in the 2nd or 3rd. Then McGovern competes at LG.

We're getting Looney at a cap discount this year by some new rule for discounting the cap hit of 1 long time vet on your team.

We're going to want to go younger on the oline. For all we know, they picked McGovern in the first place as a potential replacement for Frederick.

Not sure what we can make of Dallas never being in a hurry to sign Looney. It's possible that each year he has looked for someone who would sign him as a starter, since we had Frederick, before returning here for backup dollars.

 

[xwalker]

I don't know if Williams can make that adjustment. He was a left tackle in college.

Yes, most players that play Center in the NFL have at least some amount of experience at that position.

They're unlikely to try CW at a different position this year due to him coming off a major injury from last season.

If CW did cross-train at another position, I think it would be at OT.

 

[fivetwos]

I think OL Coach, Joe Philbin and Mike McCarthy will test Connor Williams and Connor McGovern for the LG position, with the winner becoming the starter at that position. In college, McGovern's coaches thought he was better suited to perform at LG than center.

In the end, I think McGovern will beat out Williams for the LG spot. Williams and Looney may then compete for the center spot with Looney winning there. It should be an interesting process, in any event. May the most capable ones win the battle for their respective spots.

Yep, they are going to have to commit McGovern to center if that's what they want him to be though.

They need to decide what he is, then decide if its him vs Looney at center, or him vs Williams at LG.

He may be better suited for LG, but he is the trams best option at C in the long run. I'd put him there and if he isnt ready, or loses to Looney out of camp, so be it.

They will find a way to get the best two of the three of them on the field, but we all need to root for McGovern to take the starting C job. The skillset is similar to Fred coming out of school. MCGovern has the advantage of an NFL off season before hitting the field.

Seriously, this team really cant afford to spend a high pick on a interior lineman. Not now. The secondary is atrocious.

 

[gimmesix]

I say this team will be lulled into false security like we always are.

We always think we are better than we are.

Remember WR by Committee?

That crap lasted 8 games into 2018 before we yelled 'Uncle' and traded for Cooper at a damned high price including his new contract.

We could have just drafted Ridley when we had the chance. He was better than Amari in 2018.

Yes, we drafted these other guys you mentioned but mostly as occasional backups. Not 17+ game starters protecting almost $60 million a year in players like Dak and Zeke.

I think and have said since Beard retired..get ready to draft his replacement now. Do not wait and play a cute game of cobble a center from the backups.

Posted threads on this already.

We may have to use a 2nd Rd pick on one. But take the best one and don't screw this up. It's too important to this team.

Over to you.

It's fine to want to do that, but the draft doesn't always play into your hands. In fact, we've seen many years where it didn't fall at all like Dallas wanted. So your choice if you want a certain player is to trade up to make sure you get him, take a player early because he won't last until your next pick or hope he lasts. Then, you possibly have to ignore better players at positions of equal or greater need because you are forcing the pick.

I have no problem with Dallas taking a center in the second if that player is the best pick at the time or on an equal tier of who's available. Of course, with the draft, you also have the possibility of the pick not working out and either McGovern or Looney having to start anyway. (Again, I'm not saying that's reason not to take a player, but only that some seem to assume that the draft is an automatic solution.)

 

[gimmesix]

I know Joe Looney was competent in 2018. But he’s really just a high end OL backup. He cannot be considered anything more than a decent stopgap. IMO he’s a temporary starter at best.

I believe Connor McGreagor is a better long term answer. We will have to see once camp starts (whenever that may be) if he can learn the position and develop. We are a long way from knowing the answer to that.

The good thing is that McGregor can deliver a punch.

 

[Bullflop]

Yep, they are going to have to commit McGovern to center if that's what they want him to be though.

They need to decide what he is, then decide if its him vs Looney at center, or him vs Williams at LG.

He may be better suited for LG, but he is the trams best option at C in the long run. I'd put him there and if he isnt ready, or loses to Looney out of camp, so be it.

They will find a way to get the best two of the three of them on the field, but we all need to root for McGovern to take the starting C job. The skillset is similar to Fred coming out of school. MCGovern has the advantage of an NFL off season before hitting the field.

Seriously, this team really cant afford to spend a high pick on a interior lineman. Not now. The secondary is atrocious.

I'm seriously hoping the secondary will improve impressively with MM and the new coaches in charge. I think the deep coverage will be much improved with some better talent at safety. One or two good CB additions might help to give better depth and allow the starters an occasional breather, if needed. I believe another vet FA addition could prove valuable until the rookies get fully integrated into the defensive scheme.

 

[gimmesix]

Thanks for posting and sharing.
Not sure if this is a copy-pasted posted article from elsewhere or your own originality, but it's pretty much spot on with terrific player analysis and predicted evaluations from the drafting of McGovern;
-to the wide assumption that Williams would be moved to RT while Collins departed in soon FA.
-To the non- foreseen sudden retirement of Fredrick.

i still maintain that we don't see players picked within first 3 rounds as quality backups. As Jerry says during draft -related press conferences interviews, they are normally targeted and slated as immediate contributors.
Or as in the case of Chaz Green who was drafted in 3rd round, as a player being groomed as a soon heir apparent. (via Doug Free)
Unfortunately we know how that turned out. Thus prompting Collins permanent move to RT.

Best Player Available per draft board ? i don't buy into it.
Davin Cook was also on Cowboys board as BPA in 2017 draft class and seen as a 1st round worthiness, but did we really think Cook was gonna be drafted by us via BPA, when we already invested in a proven, productive high impact, best RB in NFL in Zeke ?

When we drafted McGovern, that was BPA, but it had to be somewhere planned where he was to start and have the biggest impact.
- either that was immediate competition vs C Williams at LG spot
- either that was gonna spell Williams moving to RT, with Collins departing (which was immediately dispelled
with LC re-signing)
- could drafting McGov's versatility to play center, actually have also been a insurance protection move with
the concern with Fredrick's medical condition ?
However what led to the decision to draft McGovern, i have to believe this team still believes in Williams, despite the
outcry of criticism from several fans insisting he is a bust, when he's actually played solid overall.
Williams has more plus than minus plays and when he does miscue it's always a mental lapse mistake vs him being out manned and physical by his defender.

I can't say I'm absolutely sure what the plan was when we drafted McGovern. I agree that you don't draft third-round picks looking for long-term backups. Re-signing Collins kind of threw a curveball at what it looked like Dallas was doing: planning to replace Williams with McGovern at guard, move Williams to right tackle and let Collins walk. Of course, Dallas never really said that this was the plan. I don't know if the Cowboys were anticipating Frederick retiring or not being able to return; it certainly would have been prudent.

I am just glad that we've got McGovern as the possible answer to this problem. I know there are some that are absolutely in favor of drafting a center early (and I won't cry over that), but are we ready to just cast aside either our No. 2 pick (Williams) or No. 3 pick (McGovern) without giving that a chance to work out? We took McGovern because he was supposedly easily the best player left on our board and a second-round value. It's time to find out if the choice was right.

 

[LifetimeBoysFan]

That's fair. We certainly don't know what his preparation has been or how quickly he'll adjust to the pros. With Looney, I just have trouble with how much our sacks skyrocketed after he took over for Frederick. I know a lot of the problem was a left guard with Williams not being ready for the starting role and Sua'-Filo being poor in pass protection. I also know part of the problem was with Dak holding on to the ball too long (which he did much better at last year). But the center has to diagnose the defense and call out assignments and Looney just wasn't good at that. It doesn't mean McGovern will be better, though.

I think we are kind of in a we have no better options situation. The draft is not loaded with prospects. Free agent pool isn’t either really. They could draft someone but with the thing talent pool in the draft I see them sticking with what they have for now. Perhaps next year they will know if they have a future starter with McGovern and can feel comfortable with him long term. Or until they find a top level replacement in the future via draft or FA.

 

[gimmesix]

Yes, most players that play Center in the NFL have at least some amount of experience at that position.

They're unlikely to try CW at a different position this year due to him coming off a major injury from last season.

If CW did cross-train at another position, I think it would be at OT.

I agree.

 

[gimmesix]

I think we are kind of in a we have no better options situation. The draft is not loaded with prospects. Free agent pool isn’t either really. They could draft someone but with the thing talent pool in the draft I see them sticking with what they have for now. Perhaps next year they will know if they have a future starter with McGovern and can feel comfortable with him long term. Or until they find a top level replacement in the future via draft or FA.

I see them sticking as well to give McGovern a chance before having to spend another draft pick on the position.

 

[LifetimeBoysFan]

I also think it is possible Looney is our starting center and McGovern challenges Williams at LG. Then pushes Williams out to become a backup guard or our swing tackle when Tyron’s back goes out for a few games again. I would really like to see them take a tackle in this draft for Tyron security. Also because it is pretty deep on talent and you can’t have too much of that on your offense or defensive lines IMHO.

 

[gimmesix]

Yep, they are going to have to commit McGovern to center if that's what they want him to be though.

They need to decide what he is, then decide if its him vs Looney at center, or him vs Williams at LG.

He may be better suited for LG, but he is the trams best option at C in the long run. I'd put him there and if he isnt ready, or loses to Looney out of camp, so be it.

They will find a way to get the best two of the three of them on the field, but we all need to root for McGovern to take the starting C job. The skillset is similar to Fred coming out of school. MCGovern has the advantage of an NFL off season before hitting the field.

Seriously, this team really cant afford to spend a high pick on a interior lineman. Not now. The secondary is atrocious.

I agree that he bears some similarity to Frederick. His strength is .... well, strength. Straight up, he's considered to be an immovable object. His questionable area seems to be lateral movement skills. He may never been as good as Frederick, but he could easily be good enough.

 

[gimmesix]

I also think it is possible Looney is our starting center and McGovern challenges Williams at LG. Then pushes Williams out to become a backup guard or our swing tackle when Tyron’s back goes out for a few games again. I would really like to see them take a tackle in this draft for Tyron security. Also because it is pretty deep on talent and you can’t have too much of that on your offense or defensive lines IMHO.

A player I'm actually interested in at guard is our UDFA Brandon Knight. Granted, it's only a small sample size, but I was impressed with him when he stepped in during the season. He was a college right tackle and that's where he played for us, but guard seems to be his best fit in the pros.

Not saying he's going to grab the left guard spot from Williams, just that I'm intrigued by him.