A Comment and Questions for the Dak Doubters

[Brax]

Make no mistake.

Most of his “doubters” are locked into their positions. Dak could be MVP and win the Super Bowl and it still wouldn’t be enough.

They’ll still say he’s “average” (no matter what the numbers say) and any QB could’ve done that with this supporting cast. That I can promise you.

They’re losers. Dak’s a winner. Losers usually resent winners, especially anonymously on the internet.

Nice, do not agree to your view and you label as a loser. Look in the mirror and see if there is a big L on your forehead. Why always with the labels and name calling.

 

[Brax]

It has taken me a long time to come to terms with this board. Maybe all message boards. I don't believe many times does one poster ever change the mind of another poster. Even with burning bush proof mushed in the doubters face. So I am not here to praise Dak, or convince you of something you currently do not believe.

My position. I believe, with the team's Dak has played for since coming to the Cowboys, - questionable receivers, lack of defense, false accusations about a significant piece and ultimate suspension....ect. - to me...............TO ME............... I have seen progress by Dak and believe he has superior leadership qualities, and enough talent to lead this team to the promised land. Provided he has a real team and not all of the pressure is on him alone.

However, that could change if he had all the skill players and a defense and failed. So I am riding the fence with a positive attitude, but a show me inner voice.

Having said that I would like to ask the doubters a few questions. Keep in mind there is no trick about these questions. Your opinion is yours and counts no more or less than anyone else here.

QUESTIONS

Were Dak to play under the tag this season, and after all is said and done the Dallas Cowboys win the Super Bowl. Dak plays within himself, but it is a true team win, and not some Elway 97 yard drive to a walk off victory.

Dak will still need a new contract, or tagged, or walk.

If Dallas, at that time, considering the results, offered Dak a contract which compensation was an average of 40 million a year, or at least above 38 million would you:

Still be a doubter?
Still be disappointed he wants that salary?
Opposed to reupping him with a new contract?
In favor of forcing him to play under a tag the coming season?
Just as soon let him walk since his heroics was not enough to say he is the real deal?

I don't need the why because I'm pretty certain I have read all your thoughts on him. But if you feel you need to elaborate, then tee it up.

Maybe we can have a discussion without the acrimony concerning Dak.

Pretty simple , too many here Dak has not proven anything yet, to me let him play on the tag as it appears Jerry believes in him , if the team makes the Superbowl win or lose pay him. any thing less out the door he goes,with the talent Jones has put around him there is no more cry baby excuses for failure on his part.

 

[Nav22]

Pretty simple , too many here Dak has not proven anything yet, to me let him play on the tag as it appears Jerry believes in him , if the team makes the Superbowl win or lose pay him. any thing less out the door he goes,with the talent Jones has put around him there is no more cry baby excuses for failure on his part.

He’s winning at life and you’re losing at life. I know it hurts.

“Yeah, no more excuses for your FAILURES, Dak! You’ve only played well enough through 4 NFL seasons to have earned an offer north of $30m/year for 5 years to play QB for the Dallas Cowboys!”

 

[ChronicCowboy]

Dak as a football player is fantastic. Dak as a passer is inconsistent. Can you pay an inconsistent passer 30+ million per year and consider it a good value? If you do, are you setting the team up for failure?

I like Dak a lot but I expected him to be a more polished passer by now. After 4 years, his reads and accuracy issues appear to be permanent.

 

[Established1971]

It has taken me a long time to come to terms with this board. Maybe all message boards. I don't believe many times does one poster ever change the mind of another poster. Even with burning bush proof mushed in the doubters face. So I am not here to praise Dak, or convince you of something you currently do not believe.

My position. I believe, with the team's Dak has played for since coming to the Cowboys, - questionable receivers, lack of defense, false accusations about a significant piece and ultimate suspension....ect. - to me...............TO ME............... I have seen progress by Dak and believe he has superior leadership qualities, and enough talent to lead this team to the promised land. Provided he has a real team and not all of the pressure is on him alone.

However, that could change if he had all the skill players and a defense and failed. So I am riding the fence with a positive attitude, but a show me inner voice.

Having said that I would like to ask the doubters a few questions. Keep in mind there is no trick about these questions. Your opinion is yours and counts no more or less than anyone else here.

QUESTIONS

Were Dak to play under the tag this season, and after all is said and done the Dallas Cowboys win the Super Bowl. Dak plays within himself, but it is a true team win, and not some Elway 97 yard drive to a walk off victory.

Dak will still need a new contract, or tagged, or walk.

If Dallas, at that time, considering the results, offered Dak a contract which compensation was an average of 40 million a year, or at least above 38 million would you:

Still be a doubter?
Still be disappointed he wants that salary?
Opposed to reupping him with a new contract?
In favor of forcing him to play under a tag the coming season?
Just as soon let him walk since his heroics was not enough to say he is the real deal?

I don't need the why because I'm pretty certain I have read all your thoughts on him. But if you feel you need to elaborate, then tee it up.

Maybe we can have a discussion without the acrimony concerning Dak.

I really respect that you are saying doubter and not hater

If he won the super bowl and anyone still wanted to see him replaced then they are just being excessively stubborn

 

[CCBoy]

They did both make the Pro Bowl as rookies.
That's where the similarities end.
I like Shan Shariff but he has been deservedly roasted for making this same comment.

Size:
Dalton is the same 6'2" as Dak. But that's where their size ceases being alike.
Dak is at least 15 pounds heavier, has longer arms, much larger hands.

Arm strength: This is nonsense. Andy Dalton has had one of the leagues' weakest arms since entering the league. It was a knock on him coming out of TCU and has only gotten worse as he has aged.
Dak had footwork issues that occasionally stripped his arm strength but he is a powerful guy with a plus arm.
Dak's average air yards per completion was 3rd highest in the NFL. He is pushing the ball down the field.

Abilities: This is MORE than nonsense. Dak is a strong QB who shrugs off sack attempts, breaks tackles on the run and then flexes after running over defenders. Dalton is a thinner build who lacks any of those abilities. He will get you a yard or two and get down. Last year Dalton finished 26th in rushing yards by a QB, Dak 8th. Andy is a tough guy and willing runner but he is used as a complete surprise run option. Dak is a power run option.

Dalton had insanely good weapons early in his career. Much like Dak does now. The closest he ever came to Dak's passing yardage total of last season was 700 yards fewer than Dak.

Like with Wentz and many other QBs haters want to compare to Dak they want to compare a QBs best season to Dak's worst.
At this stage of their careers Dak is a VASTLY better QB than Andy Dalton.
It's why Dak is franchised at 31.4M and Andy just signed for 3M knowing Dak is the starter here.
Comparing a guy who has 10% the market value as equitable is being intellectually dishonest at best.

(coughing) Both became starters in the crisis involving a quarterback veteran.
Both led their respective teams to the playoffs and were named to the Pro Bowl their first years at the helm.

Actually as to weight, one is 220 and the other is 225.

You then stating that a QB challenging to run over opponents is actually a better plan for being elusive and also a good running quarterback? That immediately brings on injury challenges and longevity issues. As to running, Dalton learned why or how to challenge on the outsides of formations, where defensive players are able to set up that quarterback and deliver intense hits upon them. A really good safety will be able to delay and then head hunt the quarterback...driving a helmet up under his chin, Tough lessons there.

More recently, Andy Dalton, has had a rough team to try and carry. No one should argue against that.

Dalton and wide receiver A.J. Green became a prolific quarterback/receiver combination,[3] breaking NFL records for completions and yards for a rookie quarterback/receiver combination

Dalton is one of ten quarterbacks in NFL history to have thrown for over 3,000 yards and one of six to throw at least 20 touchdowns in each of his first three seasons.

Dalton is the only quarterback to lead the Bengals to five consecutive playoff berths, and one of five quarterbacks to lead his team to the playoffs in each of his first five seasons.

He is also the Bengals franchise record holder for passing yards in a season, passing touchdowns in a season, and career passing touchdowns.

Regular season
Year Team Games Passing Rushing Fumbles
GP GS Cmp Att Pct Yds Avg Lng TD Int Rate Att Yds Avg Lng TD Fum Lost
2011 CIN 16 16 300 518 58.1 3,398 6.6 84 20 13 80.4 37 152 4.1 17 1 4 2
2012 CIN 16 16 329 528 64.7 3,669 6.9 59 27 16 87.4 47 120 2.6 17 4 4 4
2013 CIN 16 16 363 586 61.9 4,293 7.3 82 33 20 88.8 61 183 3.0 12 2 4 3
2014 CIN 16 16 309 481 64.2 3,398 7.1 81 19 17 83.5 60 169 2.8 20 4 3 2
2015 CIN 13 13 255 386 66.1 3,250 8.4 80 25 7 106.2 57 142 2.5 12 3 5 2
2016 CIN 16 16 364 563 64.7 4,206 7.5 86 18 8 91.8 46 184 4.0 15 4 9 3
2017 CIN 16 16 297 496 59.9 3,320 6.7 77 25 12 86.6 38 99 2.6 25 0 4 4
2018 CIN 11 11 226 365 61.0 2,566 7.0 49 21 11 89.6 16 99 6.2 21 0 1 0
2019 CIN 13 13 314 528 59.5 3,494 6.6 66 16 14 78.3 32 73 2.3 17 4 8 4
Career 133 133 2,757 4,449 62.0 31,594 7.1 86 204 118 87.5 394 1,221 3.1 25 22 42 24


Postseason
Year Team Games Passing Rushing Fumbles
GP GS Cmp Att Pct Yds Avg Lng TD Int Rate Att Yds Avg Lng TD Fum Lost
2011 CIN 1 1 27 42 64.3 257 6.1 36 0 3 51.4 3 17 5.7 15 0 1 0
2012 CIN 1 1 14 30 46.7 127 4.2 45 0 1 44.7 4 15 3.8 12 0 0 0
2013 CIN 1 1 29 51 56.9 334 6.6 49 1 2 67.0 5 26 5.2 12 0 2 1
2014 CIN 1 1 18 35 51.4 155 4.4 26 0 0 63.4 4 34 8.5 16 0 1 1
Career 4 4 88 158 55.7 873 5.6 49 1 6 57.8 16 92 5.8 16 0 4 2

He led the Bengals to the playoffs his first four seasons with Cincinnati.
Except for 2018, his totals have really been respectable.

Not really a lamb crying in the wilderness that was painted above. Cincinnati got worse, and that affected his productions.

 

[Established1971]

Dak has that IT factor. He's a pitbull when on the field. Never quits or complains, especially when being down during a game. You can tell he hates to lose. He's a fighter, plus the limelight is not too big for him. He's gotten better every year and very likely will keep improving his game, especially under this new set of successfully experienced coaches.

All true except I think he regressed a bit last year. The high numbers are mostly a result of playing behind a lot. I did like how he threw over the middle more in 2019 than he had in 2018. Still needs end zone work and his occassional missing of wide open receivers is still a curious outlier

 

[csirl]

If Dak was a passenger along for the ride, then why would you give him 40m? Over paying any player is bad for the team and you only pay for anticipated future performance.

 

[Brax]

He’s winning at life and you’re losing at life. I know it hurts.

“Yeah, no more excuses for your FAILURES, Dak! You’ve only played well enough through 4 NFL seasons to have earned an offer north of $30m/year for 5 years to play QB for the Dallas Cowboys!”

Please learn to act like a adult,and also learn to read with understanding you lack in both categories.

 

[SALADIN]

It has taken me a long time to come to terms with this board. Maybe all message boards. I don't believe many times does one poster ever change the mind of another poster. Even with burning bush proof mushed in the doubters face. So I am not here to praise Dak, or convince you of something you currently do not believe.

My position. I believe, with the team's Dak has played for since coming to the Cowboys, - questionable receivers, lack of defense, false accusations about a significant piece and ultimate suspension....ect. - to me...............TO ME............... I have seen progress by Dak and believe he has superior leadership qualities, and enough talent to lead this team to the promised land. Provided he has a real team and not all of the pressure is on him alone.

However, that could change if he had all the skill players and a defense and failed. So I am riding the fence with a positive attitude, but a show me inner voice.

Having said that I would like to ask the doubters a few questions. Keep in mind there is no trick about these questions. Your opinion is yours and counts no more or less than anyone else here.

QUESTIONS

Were Dak to play under the tag this season, and after all is said and done the Dallas Cowboys win the Super Bowl. Dak plays within himself, but it is a true team win, and not some Elway 97 yard drive to a walk off victory.

Dak will still need a new contract, or tagged, or walk.

If Dallas, at that time, considering the results, offered Dak a contract which compensation was an average of 40 million a year, or at least above 38 million would you:

Still be a doubter?
Still be disappointed he wants that salary?
Opposed to reupping him with a new contract?
In favor of forcing him to play under a tag the coming season?
Just as soon let him walk since his heroics was not enough to say he is the real deal?

I don't need the why because I'm pretty certain I have read all your thoughts on him. But if you feel you need to elaborate, then tee it up.

Maybe we can have a discussion without the acrimony concerning Dak.

I've been waiting for you to bring some since to this. Well done 2

 

[Flamma]

Were Dak to play under the tag this season, and after all is said and done the Dallas Cowboys win the Super Bowl. Dak plays within himself, but it is a true team win, and not some Elway 97 yard drive to a walk off victory.

Dak will still need a new contract, or tagged, or walk.

If Dallas, at that time, considering the results, offered Dak a contract which compensation was an average of 40 million a year, or at least above 38 million would you:

Still be a doubter?
Still be disappointed he wants that salary?
Opposed to reupping him with a new contract?
In favor of forcing him to play under a tag the coming season?
Just as soon let him walk since his heroics was not enough to say he is the real deal?

He's over 30 million cap hit right now. If he can lead the Cowboys to a super bowl you'll hear no complaints from me. Hell, if the Cowboys go 12-4 or 13-3 and get screwed like we did in 2014 I'd still be in. The cap hit after signing isn't going to be that much different. I just need to know 2016 wasn't a fluke.

 

[NotForLong]

Dak has 8 4Q comebacks and 14 game winning drives in his regular season career, and an additional one in the playoffs. So him being a non-factor is not true.

So i guess Dak is only a non factor when it comes to Blame for Cowboys struggles.

Blame the Coaches
Blame the WRs (All of them)
Blame the RB
Blame the O-Line
Blame the Defense
Blame the Kicker

Relentlessly and vicously attack everyone and anyone not named Dak

You Dak Supporters (Not Cowboys Supporters) are always moving the goal posts.

 

[NotForLong]

"I routed for him (Dak) for the last 4 years"

False.

False? He's the QB of the Cowboys. Who was I supporting when I spent my Sundays in front of the TV?

Grow up

 

[NotForLong]

Way to not answer the hypothetical. Your position seems clear.

At least be man enough to say, “No, I wouldn’t want Dak here even if we won the Super Bowl with him.”

Let me ask you a hypothetical. Will you support Dalton if he replaces Dak at any point in this upcoming season.

 

[NotForLong]

The Jets just signed a 37 year old running back...Jets?
Dak's agent firm wants to get rich with publicity.
Two Deep has been around Cowboys digs for over two decades that I am aware. He also served in Viet Nam...as a reference to another fan.

What are you rambling about?

 

[CCBoy]

What are you rambling about?

Now, you, son...either talk football, or take the foot out of your own mouth. Oh, there is another option for you...the burn barrel buddy group, smart guy,

Better yet, save up cereal box tops and get your OWN decoder ring...

YOU are on a roll...4 straight bla...bla...blas. You want a medal or a chest to pin it on?

Good night, sonnie...talk football.

 

[garyo1954]

I don't support a single player. I support the Dallas Cowboys. I may like individual players, but once their ideas diverge from the team concept, its time to wish them well and move on. For more info contact Bill Belichick.

 

[Nav22]

Let me ask you a hypothetical. Will you support Dalton if he replaces Dak at any point in this upcoming season.

Hell yes.

I’ve supported every single Cowboys QB since I’ve been a fan. That includes the likes of Ryan Leaf, Quincy Carter, Brandon Weeden, Anthony Wright, Clint Stoerner, Drew Henson and Chad Hutchinson.

I know exactly how hard it is to find a good QB, so I know we should appreciate it when we have a good one like Dak.

Now you answer this hypothetical: would you want Dak gone even if we win the Super Bowl?

 

[Miller]

It has taken me a long time to come to terms with this board. Maybe all message boards. I don't believe many times does one poster ever change the mind of another poster. Even with burning bush proof mushed in the doubters face. So I am not here to praise Dak, or convince you of something you currently do not believe.

My position. I believe, with the team's Dak has played for since coming to the Cowboys, - questionable receivers, lack of defense, false accusations about a significant piece and ultimate suspension....ect. - to me...............TO ME............... I have seen progress by Dak and believe he has superior leadership qualities, and enough talent to lead this team to the promised land. Provided he has a real team and not all of the pressure is on him alone.

However, that could change if he had all the skill players and a defense and failed. So I am riding the fence with a positive attitude, but a show me inner voice.

Having said that I would like to ask the doubters a few questions. Keep in mind there is no trick about these questions. Your opinion is yours and counts no more or less than anyone else here.

QUESTIONS

Were Dak to play under the tag this season, and after all is said and done the Dallas Cowboys win the Super Bowl. Dak plays within himself, but it is a true team win, and not some Elway 97 yard drive to a walk off victory.

Dak will still need a new contract, or tagged, or walk.

If Dallas, at that time, considering the results, offered Dak a contract which compensation was an average of 40 million a year, or at least above 38 million would you:

Still be a doubter?
Still be disappointed he wants that salary?
Opposed to reupping him with a new contract?
In favor of forcing him to play under a tag the coming season?
Just as soon let him walk since his heroics was not enough to say he is the real deal?

I don't need the why because I'm pretty certain I have read all your thoughts on him. But if you feel you need to elaborate, then tee it up.

Maybe we can have a discussion without the acrimony concerning Dak.

1) Great scenario and question. I’ve stayed out of these threads for the most part because I’m a big believer that there is always a middle ground where extremes don’t exist. So I do like Dak snd what he brings but I think his price is too high for what we have done etc. So it’s nice to see a legit question.

2) So with my "like but no pay too high" thoughts... if you’re scenario played out I’d look at a few things...how much did he contribute? How much of a bus driver was he? Was he just a small piece? Did he save us in games? Could someone else have done what he did? Does he have special traits that we can’t find elsewhere?

The last question is what makes me like Dak. I kind of suppress the passing numbers because there are so many factors to look at. But overall I remember a lot of plays where the line broke down and his escaping and legs saved drives. He has a “knack.” I can also see arguments saying that in limited numbers he struggles against certain Ds. But I like his fire.

So my answer would be that if he was a contributor and was a SB winning QB, I’d assume the market would talk and I’d be fine with a 35-40 mil contract because honestly I don’t think you can avoid it. Plus with our weapons I have a hard time seeing a guy as a “bus driver” if he’s getting these WRs the ball. That only happens if we are Zeke and D heavy. Seriously what would be your move be here if not paying him after a SB? You could upset all team balance with another tag. Listen there are many ways teams can get around big contracts these days. If he wets the bed two years after I’m sure there is a clause to get rid of him. That’s how I’d realistically see this playing out. I’m ready for a SB and win. What is there to be upset about? Do I like overpaying guys? No. Would it happen here? Yes. And we move along.

 

[Nav22]

If you follow the history of SB winning QB's you'll see 1 of 2 basic types.

1. Is a stud QB who can makes a good team great.
2. Is a good QB who can rely on a dominant defense.

Dak is a good average QB maybe even little better than average with really good weapons at WR, RB, and a good OL. What Dak needs to win in the post season is a great defense. The problem is we are continuing to have to put many top resources into the offense to keep it looking good. At some point a top paid QB has got to help the OL look good, or make a WR look good and Dak hasn't in his 4 years. He has not elevated not 1 offensive players game. But we've seen TD's and yards per catch come down for everyone but maybe cooper who did well as a #1 target. His best asset is ball protection which is really good. He's not worth top money and paying him will only hurt the team once the bigger part of the money kicks in.

“Dak hasn’t elevated ANYONE’S game! Not even Michael Gallup, a 3rd rounder in his 2nd year who had over 1,100 yards and 6 TD! Not even Randall Cobb, who had his best year since 2015 and promptly earned a bigger payday from the Texans!”

DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR