A vision or philosophy is needed to build a winner

[doomsday9084]

I watched the Steelers destroy the Browns yesterday or part of it. During the game, I looked at the Steelers' history. They have had 3 coaches since 1969. They had seasons under 0.500 in 2003, 99, 98, 91, 88, 86, 85 since 1972. That's 7 losing seasons in almost 50 years and none in the last 17.

They have been running the same defense for, like, ever. As such, they know what type of players to look for and then coach them up. Their defense is neither super complicated nor simple. On offense, they always have a good line and Big Ben. They rarely invest in receivers yet always seem to have good ones.

I totally agree with the OP and Pittsburgh is an example.

Its basically a big machine and the complete opposite of the Jerry Cowboys but pretty similar to the Landry Cowboys.

 

[Bobhaze]

I watched the Steelers destroy the Browns yesterday or part of it. During the game, I looked at the Steelers' history. They have had 3 coaches since 1969. They had seasons under 0.500 in 2003, 99, 98, 91, 88, 86, 85 since 1972. That's 7 losing seasons in almost 50 years and none in the last 17.

They have been running the same defense for, like, ever. As such, they know what type of players to look for and then coach them up. Their defense is neither super complicated nor simple. On offense, they always have a good line and Big Ben. They rarely invest in receivers yet always seem to have good ones.

I totally agree with the OP and Pittsburgh is an example.

Its basically a big machine and the complete opposite of the Jerry Cowboys but pretty similar to the Landry Cowboys.

Well said. Balt, Pitt and NE all have philosophical approaches to building a team and they are proactive about building it. We have mostly been reactive- waiting until there’s an obvious problem, then reacting to it.

 

[fivetwos]

Actually I think the Cowboys DO have a culture.

A place to go to get a last paycheck when you have nothing left in the tank.

They love signing name players (former 1st rounders who had average careers) a year or two too late.

Everyone is shocked when those types dont make an impact....or even get on the field.

Its simple. You have people making decisions that they arent qualified to make.

I see no mystery at all as to why it doesnt all work.

 

[xwalker]

The late great Notre Dame football coach Knute Rockne once famously said, “I don’t play my 11 best players- I play my best 11.”

I want to ask a serious question- What is this team built to be? Or what is this team trying to become? Honestly, I’m not at all sure.

Answering that question 4 years ago was not that difficult. In 2016, this team was built around a top OL and running game, built to impose its will on opponents by controlling the clock and wearing people out. The defense had the traditional “bend but don’t break” philosophy, taking few chances, while keeping everything in front of them.

Now? I’m not sure when I watch the 2020 version of the Dallas Cowboys what it is built to be. It seems like a bunch of players without a vision.

One way this franchise could get back to its glory days (even if we’re stuck with the Jones FO) is to have a simple and clear vision of what it is trying to be. Then draft and sign players that align with it. In other words, build a team that knows how to play together.

But unfortunately, the Jones boys have a bad habit of running this team like a fantasy football owner. Just draft some talented guys, especially flashy ones that sell jerseys and tickets, and see what happens.
Here are some steps this FO that can do to help turn this thing around:

• Make a commitment to a vision of what you want to be as a team. A team is built, it is not just thrown together. All the great Cowboys teams of the past were built with a blueprint in mind.

• Stop loading cap space with position players that are traditionally easier to find similar talent at a cheaper price. Like don’t sign Amari Cooper for big bucks. Having him right now is not the key to getting better. I know that’s not a popular opinion around here, but we could be 2-3 right now without Amari Cooper’s $20 mil a year salary.

• Stop using high draft picks on guys with health risks or off field problems. Stop drafting guys in the first two rounds who have injury problems or behavioral issues! Jaylon Smith and LVE are very talented players but both had injury risks when drafted. Randy Gregory. Nuff said. Trysten Hill may eventually work out, but what an unnecessary risk in round two. Even before his injury, he’s been meh at best. These kinds of risky draft moves are stupid and they kill your chance to get better.

• Talk less. Yes, no front office talks as much as these clowns in Jones costumes. Radio talk shows (2 per week), TV shows (1 per week) and any other time a camera or notepad appears, these guys start jabbering. Just shut up and work. This is the laziest front office in football. Work hard. Keep your mouth shut. That should be in granite on the walls at the Star.

If we are ever going to return to glory as team, it starts with a vision for the kind of team we want to be. Top to bottom. Then build it and shut up while you’re doing it. You can crow all you want while hoisting a Lombardi. There’s nothing quite like a bunch of rich guys with lifetime contracts with all the time in the world to be on radio or TV.

In other words- To the Jones FO: Stop playing fantasy football and get to work.

The Cowboys have used an approach to create an identity for the team. They've committed to build a great offense and make that their identity. It's like Don Nelson's NBA team's had the identity of being great on offense but not playing much defense. That was definitely an identity.

Many fans should talk less. My opinion is that karma is against the Cowboys because too many fans have become morons. There was an Eagles fan here last year that made more sense than many people that claim to be Cowboys fans. That is a very sad state of affairs.

The Cowboys hired a legit Head Coach this time in Mike McCarty. He was not someone with connections to Jerry and not someone ever perceived as a puppet. They just happened to do it in an off-season that ended up being turned upside down by Covid. McCarthy also hired a D-Coordinator that runs a more complex scheme than the previous D-Coordinator. It was already going to be a challenge going from the most simplistic defensive scheme in the league to any more complex scheme, but doing it when there is no pre-season and no OTAs/mini-camps and a short training camp it almost guaranteed to result in a slow start to the season for the defense.

The premium positions are:
QB
Pass Rusher (includes interior pass rushers if they're also good vs the run).
LT
CB
WR

WRs are not "easy to find" for cheap.

If you were going to make the complaint of over-spending at "easier to find" positions then you would be complaining about them giving Zack Martin a big contract. NFL teams can find "good enough" interior OL without 1st round picks or massive cap space. Personally, when the player is great I'm going to keep him regardless of position/cost.

Draft Lamb gives them options to acquire players at other position in the future. They could move on from Cooper after 2021 or they won't be forced to drastically overpay when Gallup is a free agent. That's why teams should draft the best players regardless of position. If the draft pick becomes a good to great player then the team wins. If they pick a position of need and the pick is a bust, then the team fails.

Taco didn't have injury issues or legal/drug issues...

They did investigate Trysten Hill's background. They spoke to his college coaches, etc.. Hill's only "attitude" issue was with regards to the new Head Coach denying his request to transfer with the previous coaching staff. Both college D-Coordinators had high praise for Hill. The D-Coordinator that was on the 2nd coaching staff that made Hill a non-starter did an interview after Hill was drafted and he heaped praise onto Hill. He said Hill had a "extremely high motor". Basically the problem with Hill was that he was so amped up (high motor) that he would forget the new coaching staff's preferred techniques and revert to what he had learned from the previous coaching staff. Hill had a hard time understanding why the new coaching staff was telling him that the previous coaching staff's methods were wrong. Note, the previous staff moved up the ladder and was more highly regarded than the new staff.

Cowboys fans jumped onto the narrative that Juan Thornhill was a slam dunk super star that the Cowboys bypassed.

In reality 4 Safeties were picked between #27 and #63 where Thornhill ended up being picked. There were also a couple of big CBs that some teams reportedly had as Safeties on their draft boards that were picked ahead of Thornhill.

The Cowboys have gone a bit overboard on picking players like Jaylon and Gregory in terms of how many of those players they've picked over the years. Having said that, they did use a logical approach to both picks which they had not done back in the days before Stephen Jones and Will McClay were leading the draft.

Gregory's only issue was weed. He was otherwise a high character player and highly intelligent. He might be the most well spoken player on the team in interviews. It is rarely for players to be "addicted" to weed. I can definitely see how the probabilities of Gregory being able to quit using weed were higher than the probability of other players at that position with far less talent succeeding.

It was similar with Jaylon. It was definitely a calculated risk. The Cowboys team Doctor had done the surgery on Jaylon and was convinced that he would play again. The Cowboys and the Doctor were correct about Jaylon physically. He has regained the ability to play. His problems now are mental. He is not physically the player he was in college but he has plenty of physical ability (he almost caught OBJ from behind...). I don't know if he'll ever be smart enough to become a top tier player but that issue is unrelated to the injury.

 

[CouchCoach]

Booger's philosophy is simple and it's foolproof.

Everything is based on one premise, a NFL team is nothing more than a business. That business is not football, it is entertainment. Decisions all serve one purpose, profit and the resulting net value of the business. Everything must and will feed that.

He doesn't care if we don't like the product on the field. Hell, he probably doesn't like it either but it is the most successful product of it's kind and far less deserving of the attention it creates and the money it makes. And he takes pride as a marketer and promoter in that.

Booger's philosophy is simple and tied to these things in order. Under normal circumstances, this is what he would be looking at to evaluate success, as defined by him. The money the game generated, the ratings the game generated and the score of the game. And if that isn't enough, he's built a business that can support every member of the family for generations. He was just a father before buying the Cowboys, now he is the ultimate patriarch.

 

[Bobhaze]

The Cowboys have used an approach to create an identity for the team. They've committed to build a great offense and make that their identity. It's like Don Nelson's NBA team's had the identity of being great on offense but not playing much defense. That was definitely an identity.

Many fans should talk less. My opinion is that karma is against the Cowboys because too many fans have become morons. There was an Eagles fan here last year that made more sense than many people that claim to be Cowboys fans. That is a very sad state of affairs.

The Cowboys hired a legit Head Coach this time in Mike McCarty. He was not someone with connections to Jerry and not someone ever perceived as a puppet. They just happened to do it in an off-season that ended up being turned upside down by Covid. McCarthy also hired a D-Coordinator that runs a more complex scheme than the previous D-Coordinator. It was already going to be a challenge going from the most simplistic defensive scheme in the league to any more complex scheme, but doing it when there is no pre-season and no OTAs/mini-camps and a short training camp it almost guaranteed to result in a slow start to the season for the defense.

The premium positions are:
QB
Pass Rusher (includes interior pass rushers if they're also good vs the run).
LT
CB
WR

WRs are not "easy to find" for cheap.

If you were going to make the complaint of over-spending at "easier to find" positions then you would be complaining about them giving Zack Martin a big contract. NFL teams can find "good enough" interior OL without 1st round picks or massive cap space. Personally, when the player is great I'm going to keep him regardless of position/cost.

Draft Lamb gives them options to acquire players at other position in the future. They could move on from Cooper after 2021 or they won't be forced to drastically overpay when Gallup is a free agent. That's why teams should draft the best players regardless of position. If the draft pick becomes a good to great player then the team wins. If they pick a position of need and the pick is a bust, then the team fails.

Taco didn't have injury issues or legal/drug issues...

They did investigate Trysten Hill's background. They spoke to his college coaches, etc.. Hill's only "attitude" issue was with regards to the new Head Coach denying his request to transfer with the previous coaching staff. Both college D-Coordinators had high praise for Hill. The D-Coordinator that was on the 2nd coaching staff that made Hill a non-starter did an interview after Hill was drafted and he heaped praise onto Hill. He said Hill had a "extremely high motor". Basically the problem with Hill was that he was so amped up (high motor) that he would forget the new coaching staff's preferred techniques and revert to what he had learned from the previous coaching staff. Hill had a hard time understanding why the new coaching staff was telling him that the previous coaching staff's methods were wrong. Note, the previous staff moved up the ladder and was more highly regarded than the new staff.

Cowboys fans jumped onto the narrative that Juan Thornhill was a slam dunk super star that the Cowboys bypassed.

In reality 4 Safeties were picked between #27 and #63 where Thornhill ended up being picked. There were also a couple of big CBs that some teams reportedly had as Safeties on their draft boards that were picked ahead of Thornhill.

The Cowboys have gone a bit overboard on picking players like Jaylon and Gregory in terms of how many of those players they've picked over the years. Having said that, they did use a logical approach to both picks which they had not done back in the days before Stephen Jones and Will McClay were leading the draft.

Gregory's only issue was weed. He was otherwise a high character player and highly intelligent. He might be the most well spoken player on the team in interviews. It is rarely for players to be "addicted" to weed. I can definitely see how the probabilities of Gregory being able to quit using weed were higher than the probability of other players at that position with far less talent succeeding.

It was similar with Jaylon. It was definitely a calculated risk. The Cowboys team Doctor had done the surgery on Jaylon and was convinced that he would play again. The Cowboys and the Doctor were correct about Jaylon physically. He has regained the ability to play. His problems now are mental. He is not physically the player he was in college but he has plenty of physical ability (he almost caught OBJ from behind...). I don't know if he'll ever be smart enough to become a top tier player but that issue is unrelated to the injury.

X you made some good points about premium positions and I agree with some of your other points about Gregory being a good dude.

But blaming fans for “karma” or saying fans “should talk less” is ludicrous in my view. Again it’s like blaming restaurant customers for the food tasting bad. Having a dissenting view on something about the Cowboys is cool and what this forum is all about. I just think acting like our fans are not as intelligent as you want them to be is a silly argument when talking about how this team could get better.

We are all fans with opinions.

 

[xwalker]

X you made some good points about premium positions and I agree with some of your other points about Gregory being a good dude.

But blaming fans for “karma” or saying fans “should talk less” is ludicrous in my view. Again it’s like blaming restaurant customers for the food tasting bad. Having a dissenting view on something about the Cowboys is cool and what this forum is all about. I just think acting like our fans are not as intelligent as you want them to be is a silly argument when talking about how this team could get better.

We are all fans with opinions.

I would prefer the difference in Cowboys fans and Eagles fans to be that Cowboys fans had informed opinions while Eagles fans were just babbling idiots.

 

[CouchCoach]

I would prefer the difference in Cowboys fans and Eagles fans to be that Cowboys fans had informed opinions while Eagles fans were just babbling idiots.

With the sheer number of babbling idiots in this country, that is not realistic.

 

[Bobhaze]

I would prefer the difference in Cowboys fans and Eagles fans to be that Cowboys fans had informed opinions while Eagles fans were just babbling idiots.

I wasn't aware you had been appointed the decider of whose opinions are "informed" and who the idiots were. Good to know.

 

[CouchCoach]

I wasn't aware you had been appointed the decider of whose opinions are "informed" and who the idiots were. Good to know.

No, I am. Definition of babbling idiot, anyone who disagrees with me.

 

[Bobhaze]

No, I am. Definition of babbling idiot, anyone who disagrees with me.

Cheers.

 

[Diehardblues]

It’s the same one story with fans divided with their half empty or full glasses. The Homers positive outlook can’t handle the critics. And the critics negative spin is too strong for the homers.

 

[Diehardblues]

No, I am. Definition of babbling idiot, anyone who disagrees with me.

Yea, same ole BS.

 

[cowboyblue22]

thats whats wrong with the cowboys and the reason they dont win or compete for championships

 

[Reid1boys]

The late great Notre Dame football coach Knute Rockne once famously said, “I don’t play my 11 best players- I play my best 11.”

I want to ask a serious question- What is this team built to be? Or what is this team trying to become? Honestly, I’m not at all sure.

Answering that question 4 years ago was not that difficult. In 2016, this team was built around a top OL and running game, built to impose its will on opponents by controlling the clock and wearing people out. The defense had the traditional “bend but don’t break” philosophy, taking few chances, while keeping everything in front of them.

Now? I’m not sure when I watch the 2020 version of the Dallas Cowboys what it is built to be. It seems like a bunch of players without a vision.

One way this franchise could get back to its glory days (even if we’re stuck with the Jones FO) is to have a simple and clear vision of what it is trying to be. Then draft and sign players that align with it. In other words, build a team that knows how to play together.

But unfortunately, the Jones boys have a bad habit of running this team like a fantasy football owner. Just draft some talented guys, especially flashy ones that sell jerseys and tickets, and see what happens.
Here are some steps this FO that can do to help turn this thing around:

• Make a commitment to a vision of what you want to be as a team. A team is built, it is not just thrown together. All the great Cowboys teams of the past were built with a blueprint in mind.

• Stop loading cap space with position players that are traditionally easier to find similar talent at a cheaper price. Like don’t sign Amari Cooper for big bucks. Having him right now is not the key to getting better. I know that’s not a popular opinion around here, but we could be 2-3 right now without Amari Cooper’s $20 mil a year salary.

• Stop using high draft picks on guys with health risks or off field problems. Stop drafting guys in the first two rounds who have injury problems or behavioral issues! Jaylon Smith and LVE are very talented players but both had injury risks when drafted. Randy Gregory. Nuff said. Trysten Hill may eventually work out, but what an unnecessary risk in round two. Even before his injury, he’s been meh at best. These kinds of risky draft moves are stupid and they kill your chance to get better.

• Talk less. Yes, no front office talks as much as these clowns in Jones costumes. Radio talk shows (2 per week), TV shows (1 per week) and any other time a camera or notepad appears, these guys start jabbering. Just shut up and work. This is the laziest front office in football. Work hard. Keep your mouth shut. That should be in granite on the walls at the Star.

If we are ever going to return to glory as team, it starts with a vision for the kind of team we want to be. Top to bottom. Then build it and shut up while you’re doing it. You can crow all you want while hoisting a Lombardi. There’s nothing quite like a bunch of rich guys with lifetime contracts with all the time in the world to be on radio or TV.

In other words- To the Jones FO: Stop playing fantasy football and get to work.

you could put tape on the mouths of Jerry and Steven and it would have ZERO impact on the team's performance.

Patrick Mahomes on this team would be all the philosophy the team would need to develop to win big.

 

[CouchCoach]

It’s the same one story with fans divided with their half empty or full glasses. The Homers positive outlook can’t handle the critics. And the critics negative spin is too strong for the homers.

I see that as more of a case when that's used against them.

There seems to be some posters that are not happy with the way some feel so they have to reprimand them for that, wearing their critic or homer label with pride and conviction.

Why rain on someone that is optimistic or positive or why get pissed at someone who has thrown in the towel? Some act like there is a right or wrong to that.

This forum would be a hell of a lot better if posters were more cognizant of their own purpose. I have always looked at the ones that are short on faith as asking for something and it's not getting blasted for the way that they feel, they're asking "tell me where I am wrong". Give me a reason to believe or just play me another Rod Stewart song.

The biggest failing and mistake posters make here is trying to spread the opinion someone here has about the Cowboys over their entire outlook on life. I see it happen too often, some snap judgment made about a poster based on their frame of mind about a football team. That's BS and totally unnecessary.

 

[Bobhaze]

you could put tape on the mouths of Jerry and Steven and it would have ZERO impact on the team's performance.

Patrick Mahomes on this team would be all the philosophy the team would need to develop to win big.

What kind of tape? Duct tape or...? LOL. Yeah having Mahomes would help, but Texas Tech had Mahomes and they never did anything with him. Winning championships requires more than a great QB or just talented players at a few positions.

 

[Diehardblues]

The problem with the Cowboys vision is they usually don’t plan for worse case scenarios.

They go into the season wide eyed and bushy tail. Then they over hype and tout their talent and prospects to sell hope, interest , tickets and merchandise.

Then when it fails or disappoints scramble with damage control looking for scapegoats to satisfy the lynch mob looking for someone to hang for not meeting expectations.

But this team focus as Couch Coach laid out in parts is offensively focus to generate interest . Much like fantasy team. And defense is an afterthought.

These offenses look Super when up against equal or lesser teams and can remain relevant until they meet the more elite teams as well as the postseason.

Jethro still believes it was the Triplets that won those championships despite top defenses supporting.

 

[Flinger]

Hum.... vision or philosophy?

Would you expect Bilicheck to share that with the public?

Having said that...

It is obvious what Jerry thinks - it is about offense and it is about control, pride and fame. Look at the player cost allocation. Look at draft positions. Look at free agent - player asset acquisitions and divestitures. Look at coaching orientation. Look at discounting DT and safety positions. Look at the job performance of the GM.

Offense sells. We know Defense wins championships. Jerry has the No 1 sports franchise... in the world. Jerry sells. Jerry doesn't win championships.

Vision? Philosophy? Market the offense... and, they will come...

 

[Bobhaze]

It’s the same one story with fans divided with their half empty or full glasses. The Homers positive outlook can’t handle the critics. And the critics negative spin is too strong for the homers.

And funny thing is Greggo, none of us are anything other than fans with opinions. I will be the first to admit I'm not a football expert and would never pretend to be. We already have plenty of self proclaimed "experts" and thought police on here as it is, lol. I've never understood why anyone gets touchy in here about an opinion.