Things Change

[GMO415]

Signs of the times. Garrett made an attempt to remain in the 90s and that got his arse fired.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The pats drafted the greatest golden goose of all time and it made there organization look good. They could pretty much add players or just take away players and he fixed it. Watch how they struggle with no tom brady.

Wait, you mean if you don't have a QB you struggle? What happened to Coach Landry when Roger left? That happens to any Coach, you have to have both but that doesn't change the fact that you need both. Who drafted Brady? He was taken in the 6th round and every other team had a shot at him but it took the Pats to see him as an NFL QB and not just a skinny guy who ran a sub 5 forty. But even having said this, the Pats are more then just Brady over the years. They were a well coached team. In 2008, the Pats lost Brady in the first game of the season. They went 10-5 the rest of the way with Matt Cassel as their starter. It wasn't just the QB.

 

[Runwildboys]

I blame the internet.

 

[Dalmations202]

I think coaching is probably at least 50% of it. If a coach can't motivate and discipline as well as teach and monitor, then he will never be a great coach, and the team will suffer. Wade Phillips was a great motivator, but not a disciplinarian. He taught pretty well. Lost it though when the team rebelled against his lack of discipline. Garret came in and motivated, but could never get through with discipline as well. Jerry controls the discipline on the team and all the players know they can go around their coach and to Jerry -- especially the ones making the big $$$$$. Belichick eliminated this by moving nearly all the guys who were getting paid big $$$ and weren't hungry to make their name. You bought into the team concept or you were gone; with the exception of Brady, who even he had to buy in a little bit. Trade the big $$$ players for drafting high talent guys trying to make it, and this team would be consistently a much better team.
Ex: Poe. Poe was very good when young, got paid, overweight, no disciple and he just wasn't good at all with Dallas.

 

[Hook'em#11]

Bill Belicheat is the biggest reason BY FAR why the Cheatriots have won 6 Superbowls. Tom is a great QB, but a great HC is more important. Tom was smart enough to leave the year 8-9 players decided to sit the season out + massive injuries throughout their lineup( similar to us).

Cam Newton approves this message.

 

[dsturgeon]

Wait, you mean if you don't have a QB you struggle? What happened to Coach Landry when Roger left? That happens to any Coach, you have to have both but that doesn't change the fact that you need both. Who drafted Brady? He was taken in the 6th round and every other team had a shot at him but it took the Pats to see him as an NFL QB and not just a skinny guy who ran a sub 5 forty. But even having said this, the Pats are more then just Brady over the years. They were a well coached team. In 2008, the Pats lost Brady in the first game of the season. They went 10-5 the rest of the way with Matt Cassel as their starter. It wasn't just the QB.

No doubt they are a well coached team. And Bill makes them good. All those superbowls were Brady though. My point is, that they are not going to win superbowls like they were, and most likely will not get there for a long time. But they are a well coached team

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No doubt they are a well coached team. And Bill makes them good. All those superbowls were Brady though. My point is, that they are not going to win superbowls like they were, and most likely will not get there for a long time. But they are a well coached team

And this is based on what? There is no rule that says they will not find another QB.

 

[dsturgeon]

And this is based on what? There is no rule that says they will not find another QB.

So, how many years do you think before they are in another superbowl with their top notch coach?

 

[OmerV]

Tom Brady took hometown discounts to get good players around him. Something the Glitz and Glamour boys won't do.

Brady did do that later in his career, but not earlier in his career. It's always easier to give discounts after a boatload of money is already in the bank.

 

[CapnB]

Entertainment.

That is what Jones likes to package and sell.

You see it with the dancing cheerleading in the upper levels..

The gynormous TV hovering over the field..

The tunnel where the players enter the field after leaving the lockeroom..

The fancy skyboxes that ring the upper decks..

It all about a fan entertainment experience designed around a glamorous over hyped once famous team.

The Jones constantly want to be compared to the great Dallas teams under Landry and Jimmy. They want the fans to always believe their teams are just about to emerge as great again.

But they do not believe in coaching. That is why we have had none since 1996.

One of the biggest values the Cowboys made in the first 25 years was having huge Landry and Johnson Coaching Trees that went to other Franchises and won.

Dan Reeves..Mike Ditka.. Dick Nolan..Jimmy Johnson..Dave Wannstead...Butch Davis..Norv Turner..

We have not only not had great HCs we have stopped having assistant coaches who left and succeeded elsewhere.

The pipeline is dried up like one of Jerrah's Wildcat strikes.

So as we really look at what we have produced..the Campos and the Gailey's and the Garrett's..the Marinelli's and the Richards and the Ryan's..the Phillips type..

and now McCarthy..

It is easy to see why.

The Jones do not want great coaches. That would require them to do and be more.

What they prefer are good front men. Good figureheads they can use to allow the Jones to concentrate on Real Estate holdings and Chicken franchises and skyboxes.

I think we all see it.

Winning football now is found in the college game and not in the NFL in Dallas anymore.

So sad.

So sad.

You can say that about any team that has built a new stadium in the last 5-10 years. They've all tried to 1-up Jerry to get that Hosting Super Bowl mark.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So, how many years do you think before they are in another superbowl with their top notch coach?

You know, it's hard to say. I mean, it really kind of depends on how quickly they can find their guy. That is an organization that is solid, top to bottom. Losing Tom hurts, for sure, but it also creates an opportunity to free up cap and bring in youth. Pats have 8 picks in the 21 draft and 3 compensatory picks coming there way so they are going to have some room to work the draft. That organization, historically, does a really good job of positioning themselves for targeted areas in the draft and this draft has some talent at QB.

Remember, Coach Landry had Danny White after Roger retired and if not for some stupid bad luck, he probably wins another title or two. Those teams lost three times in the NFC Championship games and Danny White suffered that freak wrist injury. If that doesn't happen, I think Coach Landry wins another Championship or two. Also remember that in 89, when Coach Landry is fired, the Cowboys plan in the upcoming draft was 100% to draft Aikman. Aikman was Landry's guy and because the sale went through so close to the draft, that year, Jimmy and Jerry just went along with the work that Tex and Landry had put in on player evaluations. Aikman was Coach Landry's guy, Walsh was Jimmy's guy. So you never really know, a lot of it depends on when you find your guy.

Now, having said all of this, it's possible that it could be awhile and you might be right but there are examples of making it work. San Francisco is another example of making it work. They won a lot with Joe and when he left the building, they found Steve Young on the junk heap. Oakland did the same with Jim Plunket when Stabler retired. The Pats did it themselves with Brady when they decided to move on from Bledsoe. It's not impossible. You just have to be smart and a little bit lucky.

 

[conner01]

Tom Brady took hometown discounts to get good players around him. Something the Glitz and Glamour boys won't do.

Not really
No QB including Brady take or took hometown discounts on their first contract
Brady did later in his career
And Brady for his career has made more money than most any QB in history

 

[dsturgeon]

You know, it's hard to say. I mean, it really kind of depends on how quickly they can find their guy. That is an organization that is solid, top to bottom. Losing Tom hurts, for sure, but it also creates an opportunity to free up cap and bring in youth. Pats have 8 picks in the 21 draft and 3 compensatory picks coming there way so they are going to have some room to work the draft. That organization, historically, does a really good job of positioning themselves for targeted areas in the draft and this draft has some talent at QB.

Remember, Coach Landry had Danny White after Roger retired and if not for some stupid bad luck, he probably wins another title or two. Those teams lost three times in the NFC Championship games and Danny White suffered that freak wrist injury. If that doesn't happen, I think Coach Landry wins another Championship or two. Also remember that in 89, when Coach Landry is fired, the Cowboys plan in the upcoming draft was 100% to draft Aikman. Aikman was Landry's guy and because the sale went through so close to the draft, that year, Jimmy and Jerry just went along with the work that Tex and Landry had put in on player evaluations. Aikman was Coach Landry's guy, Walsh was Jimmy's guy. So you never really know, a lot of it depends on when you find your guy.

Now, having said all of this, it's possible that it could be awhile and you might be right but there are examples of making it work. San Francisco is another example of making it work. They won a lot with Joe and when he left the building, they found Steve Young on the junk heap. Oakland did the same with Jim Plunket when Stabler retired. The Pats did it themselves with Brady when they decided to move on from Bledsoe. It's not impossible. You just have to be smart and a little bit lucky.

Most of those examples were pre salary cap era.

Besides brady, ben, and the 2 wins for the manning brothers, superbowls don't come in groups.

13 teams have won superbowls in the last 25 years. There are 32 teams. That is a lot of coaches and gm's, and most of those were really good, they just get dealt bad or unlucky hands.

I think bill is one of the greatest coaches, but that almost all of his success comes from Brady, who is the anomaly in the salary cap era. And now the patriots and the "well run organization" is like every other one.

 

[cern]

I blame the internet.

Al Gore's fault for inventing it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Most of those examples were pre salary cap era.

Besides brady, ben, and the 2 wins for the manning brothers, superbowls don't come in groups.

13 teams have won superbowls in the last 25 years. There are 32 teams. That is a lot of coaches and gm's, and most of those were really good, they just get dealt bad or unlucky hands.

I think bill is one of the greatest coaches, but that almost all of his success comes from Brady, who is the anomaly in the salary cap era. And now the patriots and the "well run organization" is like every other one.

But is that because of QBs or is that because the NFL has gone out of their way to create parody?

What proof do you have that the Patriots are like every other team now? They are still solid as an organization. They still have a great HC and owner and GM. I don't think that can be said for most other teams in the NFL. That's pretty much "unlike" every other team in the NFL.

 

[Plankton]

Once the quotes "any one of 500 coaches could win the Super Bowl with this team.", followed by, "hell, I could coach the bleep out of this team" were uttered, any hope of coaching being a factor in Dallas went out the window.

 

[dsturgeon]

But is that because of QBs or is that because the NFL has gone out of their way to create parody?

What proof do you have that the Patriots are like every other team now? They are still solid as an organization. They still have a great HC and owner and GM. I don't think that can be said for most other teams in the NFL. That's pretty much "unlike" every other team in the NFL.

My point is that it doesn't matter if you are a well run organization. The likelihood of getting to the superbowl is slim, and doing it repeatedly is very slim.

6th round Tom Brady going in for an injured Bledsoe, and becoming the greatest pick in sports history, I just don't buy that being a credit to the organization

If the patriots don't make it to the superbowl in the next 10 years, and they win 1 playoff game, are bellicheck and the owner still a great organization, or was Brady the golden goose?

 

[willia451]

You would have thought the Cowboys would have reached an NFC Championship Game by now just by random chance.

I'm not even talking about winning it. Just getting there.

I'm starting to lose faith in probability theory. Maybe absolutes do really exist. The FAIL is so indescribable it flies in the face of all known laws of science.

 

[ChronicCowboy]

You would have thought the Cowboys would have reached an NFC Championship Game by now just by random chance.

I'm not even talking about winning it. Just getting there.

I'm starting to lose faith in probability theory. Maybe absolutes do really exist. The FAIL is so indescribable it flies in the face of all known laws of science.

You must actively suck on all levels to accomplish such a feat. Jerry is possibly the worst GM in NFL history if you just take the past 20 years into account.

 

[Captain43Crash]

No doubt they are a well coached team. And Bill makes them good. All those superbowls were Brady though. My point is, that they are not going to win superbowls like they were, and most likely will not get there for a long time. But they are a well coached team

According to you,“All those Superbowls were Brady”. You don’t know football, at all, from a coaching stand point. Many people who have played football, but never coached, have no clue how important coaching is. Great coaches can consistently put you in better position to do your job! If you want to win in the NFL you need very good to great coaching because the talent level is so even throughout the league. Players matter, but no one player, even a QB, is near as important to the success of a FOOTBALL TEAM as a great HC.
When Belicheat’s TEAM beat the Rams in the Super Bowl his above average D dominated the top ranked Rams O because of Belicheat’s outstanding game plan. Brady made 2-3 plays the whole game.