Derrick Henry vs Ezekiel Elliott

[CouchCoach]

I watched both of these RB's a lot in college and Elliott was way ahead of Henry in all 3 categories, block, catch and run, coming out of college and the rap on Henry was he needed time to get up to speed and use his size. I saw him stopped plenty of times at Bama.

Would I prefer to have Henry now? Certainly, along with his coaching staff and OL.

The first two years, I didn't notice all of this Elliott/Henry debate and now we play the hindsight game? C'mon, there are other shortcomings to discuss with this team before we get to a player that many are pissed at for his ball protection.

As far as that "party boy" image of Elliott's, that was a buyer beware situation from the beginning. How many fathers have to move to the city where their son goes to college to get him to calm down? And I am sure every poster here concerned about his extracurricular would be in bed at night at 9pm, right after making clothes for needy kids, harvesting the crops for Feed the World and an hour of scripture reading.

There was a poster on the old site that does have a case to make because we pretty much shut him down as a Bama Bowl Cut Booster but he wanted Ramsey with that 1st and Henry with that 2nd and that would have been one hell of a 1-2.

 

[G2]

It's not fundamentally flawed at all. It's the core issue around a TB and why in today's NFL you shouldn't overpay for the position.

And the reality is Elliott isn't playing behind the worst OL in football, in fact, the metrics show his OL has been at least competent in run blocking. Football Outsiders had them as a top half of the league OL. He wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire when he had Dak earlier this year too.

You guys can continue to make excuses and try to prop him up all you want but he's not an elite TB, he's not a game changing back at this point and he's pretty much overpaid. Dallas had a choice and like the Jones' typically do, they made a poor roster decision in signing him to a huge extension.

The O line is ranked 29th in rushing. What exactly is competent about being a whisker shy of dead last? It's not even debatable. Elliott and Pollard can get a run here or there, but the vast majority of runs are vs 3-4 defenders at the point of attack.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Even seems like he doesn't even try

Oh great, the always popular "eye test".

Impossible to prove, or disprove. Worthless...

 

[CATCH17]

It's not fundamentally flawed at all. It's the core issue around a TB and why in today's NFL you shouldn't overpay for the position.

And the reality is Elliott isn't playing behind the worst OL in football, in fact, the metrics show his OL has been at least competent in run blocking. Football Outsiders had them as a top half of the league OL. He wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire when he had Dak earlier this year too.

You guys can continue to make excuses and try to prop him up all you want but he's not an elite TB, he's not a game changing back at this point and he's pretty much overpaid. Dallas had a choice and like the Jones' typically do, they made a poor roster decision in signing him to a huge extension.

There is a lot of people that can't let the 90's brand of football go including the Jones's.

Many people on this board thought Zeke was a must and they had to do it.

Follow what the elite NFL teams are doing.

Who in this league has gave their RB a huge contract recently and got their money's worth?

You pay guys that impact the passing game.

 

[Sydla]

The O line is ranked 29th in rushing. What exactly is competent about being a whisker shy of dead last? It's not even debatable. Elliott and Pollard can get a run here or there, but the vast majority of runs are vs 3-4 defenders at the point of attack.

Where is this 29th ranking?

 

[Darkhound]

Oh great, the always popular "eye test".

Impossible to prove, or disprove. Worthless...

It something you can sense.. he is not the player to "attacked" and punished defenders.. is he?

 

[basel90]

zeke was bad news while he was still at ohio st. Attitude , a rap sheet, partying , etc etc. The guy kept regressing and will continue to regress. He got paid and will get his guaranteed money becasue the FO caved . plain and simple. He is a mediocre massively overpriced glut. the team has many of those. This is the reason for the record we and results we see.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

It's not fundamentally flawed at all. It's the core issue around a TB and why in today's NFL you shouldn't overpay for the position.

And the reality is Elliott isn't playing behind the worst OL in football, in fact, the metrics show his OL has been at least competent in run blocking. Football Outsiders had them as a top half of the league OL. He wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire when he had Dak earlier this year too.

You guys can continue to make excuses and try to prop him up all you want but he's not an elite TB, he's not a game changing back at this point and he's pretty much overpaid. Dallas had a choice and like the Jones' typically do, they made a poor roster decision in signing him to a huge extension.

That’s what is hilarious.

These dudes slobber over themselves making the point regarding playing behind a deficient o-line and don’t realize they are undercutting the entire argument of Zeke’s greatness and over-drafting him at #4 overall.

Yeah, the o-line matters more than the RB.....THAT’s THE POINT.

In 2015, we watched our o-line turn a washed up Darren McFadden (3.3-3.4 YPC 2012-2014 in Oakland) into a productive 1,000+ yard/4.6 YPC rusher.

 

[blueblood70]

So what you are saying is that our overpriced RB is useless without an offensive line. Which then begs the question why do we need an overpriced RB, wouldn’t that money be better spent on the offensive line? Asking for a friend.

so what you are saying is you lie to debate things that happened in the past and can NOT be changed..get over it all of you, zeke was signed prior to 2019 its been done and ink is dry and the constant crying is useless and just been beat to death

thanks for playing

now back to reality..

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

zeke was bad news while he was still at ohio st. Attitude , a rap sheet, partying , etc etc. The guy kept regressing and will continue to regress. He got paid and will get his guaranteed money becasue the FO caved . plain and simple. He is a mediocre massively overpriced glut. the team has many of those. This is the reason for the record we and results we see.

Hey but at least we have plenty of guys in the pro bowl so that’s what matters.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

ey made a poor roster decision in signing him to a huge extension.

He was signed to the extension before the 2019 season, at which time he was the NFL rushing champion twice, had a 4.66 ypc average, and 34 total touchdowns. Would likely had lots more tds and yards, and also another rushing title, if not for the suspension.

Quit with the 2020 hindsight, (and I'm not talking the "I said at the time don't sign him for that much" posts, that has nothing to do with the actual signing decision). Based on production, the decision was NOT a "poor" one. It was a calculated judgment call, one that hasn't worked out but at the time, but could have worked out, also. At the time it was done, there was ample reason to believe he would continue to perform at a high level. If anyone thought differently, congratulations on being right, we all love to say "I told you so", right? And congrats on being right because we also all love a pessimistic viewpoint coming true, right?

 

[G2]

Where is this 29th ranking?

You need to simply do some research before making the claims.

 

[DanA]

Zeke is ridiculously talented but Henry's hard work has caught up and gone past him. If you want to be the best you can't coast and IMO that's what Zeke has been doing the past 3 years.

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

so what you are saying is you lie to debate things that happened in the past and can NOT be changed..get over it all of you, zeke was signed prior to 2019 its been done and ink is dry and the constant crying is useless and just been beat to death

thanks for playing

now back to reality..

I never said that the past can be changed. Based on your statement Zeke the wonder back is struggling because of the injuries on the offensive line. I can agree with that, yes the offensive line being banged up has hurt a lot. But what baffles me is why then are we paying the kind of money we are to Zeke? Clearly by your own statement a teams offense both running and passing starts with a solid OLine, in which case a better use of money would be to pay for offensive linemen and not pay premium dollars for a Running Back. This was a discussion that was had when Demarco Murray was the RB.

 

[Sydla]

He was signed to the extension before the 2019 season, at which time he was the NFL rushing champion twice, had a 4.66 ypc average, and 34 total touchdowns. Would likely had lots more tds and yards, and also another rushing title, if not for the suspension.

Quit with the 2020 hindsight, (and I'm not talking the "I said at the time don't sign him for that much" posts, that has nothing to do with the actual signing decision). Based on production, the decision was NOT a "poor" one. It was a calculated judgment call, one that hasn't worked out but at the time, but could have worked out, also. At the time it was done, there was ample reason to believe he would continue to perform at a high level. If anyone thought differently, congratulations on being right, we all love to say "I told you so", right? And congrats on being right because we also all love a pessimistic viewpoint coming true, right?

This is just rationalizing away a poor decision by the Cowboys, something the Jones have done over and over and over and over that have led to a 24 year run without sniffing even a conference title game appearance.

At the time, no it wasn't the right decision. They locked up a fungible NFL position to a big contract that ate up a significant amount of cap space into a position that often sees the widest disparity in performance year to year. It's also a position that also sees the quickest drop off in production given the nature of the position. Further, the Cowboys had ample evidence of a significant number of teams viewing the RB position as just that, a fungible position, and still being able to build good running games without nearly the investment we made.

You can cite his stats all you want at the time of signing but when you sign a guy you aren't just rewarding him for what he did, you are also projecting what you think you will get from him over a significant portion of the contract. And that's even more important when considering a position like TB that shows guys can quickly fall off the map due to injuries/wear and tear/etc.

The Cowboys made a mistake in signing a TB, any TB, to that level of contract. And now we are going to have to choke on it for a few years most likely.

 

[Sydla]

I never said that the past can be changed. Based on your statement Zeke the wonder back is struggling because of the injuries on the offensive line. I can agree with that, yes the offensive line being banged up has hurt a lot. But what baffles me is why then are we paying the kind of money we are to Zeke? Clearly by your own statement a teams offense both running and passing starts with a solid OLine, in which case a better use of money would be to pay for offensive linemen and not pay premium dollars for a Running Back. This was a discussion that was had when Demarco Murray was the RB.

Bingo. In fact, Jerry and Stephen made this argument when they decided to not overpay for Murray. They cited stats about the TB position, wear and tear, production drop offs, etc.

And then changed their mind a year later.

 

[blueblood70]

I never said that the past can be changed. Based on your statement Zeke the wonder back is struggling because of the injuries on the offensive line. I can agree with that, yes the offensive line being banged up has hurt a lot. But what baffles me is why then are we paying the kind of money we are to Zeke? Clearly by your own statement a teams offense both running and passing starts with a solid OLine, in which case a better use of money would be to pay for offensive linemen and not pay premium dollars for a Running Back. This was a discussion that was had when Demarco Murray was the RB.

MOST teams Offense ,the entire offense , struggles when you are down to your 3rd line..when i say struggle i mean SUK!

NOTE: WE ARE 3-8 BECAUSE OF THE INJURIES NOT ONE PLAYER TRULY HAS DONE WELL THIS SEASON, THE COACHES ARE FAILING BECAUSE OF INJUIRES, SO ITS SAFE TO ASSUME NO MATTER THE RB OR HIS SALARY, THEY WOULD BE STRUGGLING..

SO AGAIN tis has nothing to do with Zeke or his salary this is an anomaly of year and its so far from the norm injury wise you just have to put it behind you and look to 2021..

UM premiums were paid to the OL and they are all on IR..got it yet, light come on, cant be helped with the OL who also is very well paid all end up on IR and their backups in and out of the lineup so playing with 3rd string OL 100% handcuffs what you can do a coach or player..

lastly Jerry has the money to fix the defense regardless of what they paid zeke i mean he paid tank and Smith and will bring in some FA and draft picks to fix the defense..zeke is NOT holding the cap hostage , his deal was team friendly..

now Dak he made 32mil for 3.5 games of play and wants more.. hmmm in my minuscule knowledge of he cap and math id say that over 2.5 times more then zeke and zeke played with a bad hammie and is fighting though 16 game for his 12mil this year.. odd how that common sense says who was overpaid this year..

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

Bingo. In fact, Jerry and Stephen made this argument when they decided to not overpay for Murray. They cited stats about the TB position, wear and tear, production drop offs, etc.

And then changed their mind a year later.

Yep, it’s like their memory got wiped.

 

[Sydla]

You need to simply do some research before making the claims.

I'll ask again. You said they are the 29th OL. Where is this stat? I looked and couldn't find it.

I looked at Football Outsiders, and in adjusted line yards, their primary OL run stat, the Cowboys were rated 7th. If you look at generic stats like rushing yards per game, etc, their OL is middle of the pack, or slightly higher. A couple weeks ago, the Cowboys OL was ranked, 13th in run blocking, by Next Gen stats.

So what stat are you citing that has them 29th? Is it an updated Next Gen stat? PFF?

 

[GMO415]

So we're just using one game here? The Colts.