Lets assume Kellen Moore goes to Eagles, who would you like as OC

[TwentyOne]

its slow day. every other post is bickering about Dak this or Dak that....same old. so just to break the routine. just a hypothetical. what if Eagles are dumb enough to hire Kellen Moore. who would you want as OC and why?

Anybody JJ or SJ doesnt suggest.

 

[75boyz]

This has been rediscussed over and over.

Moore was there to help blend the old offense with the WCO.

Moore would need to call the plays and groom an assistant.

He needs to stop being a walk around HC.

I want to see HIS direct input to Dak and the offense.

It's why he was hired..not to chum with the Jones for 5pm cocktails.

We had it preached to us at his hire he had completely re-invented himself in his one season out of the league.

Or was that just another white lie he used to get the job?

I want to see some actual support of this statement on the field.

If not..why are we building around McCarthy if he is not really what he says he is.?

That head scratching dilemma still.
If HE wasn't hired for his offensive experience and he has NEVER had a major input into any of his past DCs strategy and he's not some Special Teams guru...

That still remains as one heck of a sleepover con job.

 

[Jake]

MM has decades of experience.

Andy Reid has even more, and he has an OC. You still need a guy to do the work putting together the game plan - head coaches actually have other responsibilities.

Reid still calls the plays on Sunday, and I could see MM taking that role back.

 

[Them]

...Kellen turned down the Boise State job, I can't believe he'd leave now for the freaking iggles!... and I wouldn't know who else to bring in.

 

[Bing]

I believe Lurie is seriously interested in Moore. He just fired a coach that didnt see eye to eye with him. With Moore he would get a coach thats already trained by Jerry to kiss butt and do exactly what he is told.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

lol ..Just like the Cowboys were dumb enough to keep Kellen Moore here in Dallas too, instead of him heading to Boise State ?

- Just for the sake of your hypothetical thread- i'd want to promote Doug Nussmeier from QB coach to OC. while McCarthy ponders who can immediately fill the QB coach role.

- I'd hire 11 year ex-Packers OL coach and long time MM assistant James Camben (if he's still available per Chargers overhaul) to be the new OL coach while Joe Philibin is promtoted to QB coach.
Philiben has a good

- My leading aim is to keep the current offense as similar to Kellen Moore's style and schematics as possible and Nussmeier should be an extension of that.
Seems once Kellen/Nussmeirer took over, Dak seem like a much better QB. And then added Jon Kitna to the mix.

- Others may not agree with me, but I think it's critically important to not only keep Dak rolling with the more familiar guys that helped alleviate his level of QBing and performance
to the No1 .offense leader in total yardage in the entire NFL. His throwing mechanics, Scheme and route designs, the way of getting quickly in and out of a huddle and rapidly
pushing the pace and tempo of the game, persistently pushing the ball vertically downfield, progression reads, better accuracy and touch, etc. etc.

I admired McCarthy for keeping Kellen on and not wanting to disturb or detour away from that successful course.

You are likely on the right track if Moore should leave....but then again he might want to take Nussmeier with him. Isn't Scott Tolzein on the staff as well, that could be a possibility? Philbin is probably the most logical candidate on staff though. Hate to see us lose him on the OL because I think he did a great job piecing an OL together out of some questionable talent. No they weren't great, but with all the injuries we had the fact they weren't the worst was a pretty significant accomplishment.

 

[KingintheNorth]

I believe Lurie is seriously interested in Moore. He just fired a coach that didnt see eye to eye with him. With Moore he would get a coach thats already trained by Jerry to kiss butt and do exactly what he is told.

Only 23 messages in and this guys gets it.

 

[nightrain]

Well, Linehan is taken.

 

[Omegasupreme]

I am a psychologist I just got off a counseling conference call session from Randy Fitchner, Brian Schottenheimer, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens, Scott Linehan, Bob Bratkowski, and Jason Garrett. They couldn’t understand why season after season in the last 20 years they just keep getting fired after repetitive plays, red zone stalls, wasting talent and very little misdirection or deceptive strategy that is at the high frequency that the rest of the NFL is. I consoled them that really the last time the Coryell offense had won a Super Bowl was Manning’s Colts and Warner’s Rams. Garrett tried to bring up the Ravens however Cam Cameron was fired during that Super Bowl year for running the Coryell scheme like Norv and Jason and was corrected by Jim Caldwell to make the most of Ray Rice and Flaccos skills set. Coryell is a scheme not just a playbook. It’s a theory. The West Coast offense and the very amoebic Earnhardt Perkins scheme has consistently appeared in the post season and won the Super Bowl because the modern era is about lateral misdirection, motion and constant deception on almost every play. That’s what a scheme is. Look at Dallas’s very first game this year against the Rams. What was the Rams first play? WR Woods in lateral misdirection. Kellen would have done that once and been called “creative”. That’s 1990s Coryell thinking. McVey called that formation all game and Dallas chased play design all game: building sweeps, crossing patterns, bubbles etc off of the motion. The Coryell has one benefit: novelty in the first season until the game tape shows repetition. It’s very simple and gets some results. But it’s supposed to have much more motion, play action and speed than Garrett or Kellen ever used.
There’s only two Coryell offenses active in the league right now: Kellen (who is way over his head) and Scott Turner. Garrett would use the Coryell if he were in SD next year. Joe Judge intervened with Jason around week 8 and had him change his approach to more like EP than Coryell.

Kellen has not solved Garrett’s red zone problems and unless the team moves to a modern offense, the strong WR trio, Pollard etc will be wasted game after game. The notes on Kellen this year was “he’s getting better”. But that’s a waiting game we can’t afford. He has only known one offense and designs vertical offenses that are regularly shut down in short areas. He follows illogical strategies like taking Zeke out of the backfield and putting him out on a pattern on the goal line against Pittsburgh when Pittsburgh had one concern: stop the run. When there was an empty backfield now Pittsburgh could just tee off on the QB. No play action. No pause for the WR routes like Don Coryell designed. Just 5 wide. Kellen still doesn’t understand the physics of “not enough space” for all verticals in the red zone. No crossing or picks like the rest of the league. Why the Pitt game? Dallas had that game and could have been in the playoffs. That goal line pressured interception was almost exclusively Kellens naïveté. He draws plays that that seem to lack knowledge that the defense watches his game tape and knows that Kellens (and Coryells) menu is about as diverse as a hot dog stand. Brian Billick ran a WCO that boasted over 5000 plays. Fitchner, Schottenheimer etc were fired for the same reason that the complaints amassed against Jason, Kellen, Scotts and Norv Turners offenses: same 4 plays over and over and no novelty during critical red zone or post season design. Coryell is flat earth theory. It has some visual merit but fails over time because it’s not global and certainly does not match modern knowledge.

Kellen doesn’t understand complex running plays like Shanahan or even the Sean Payton quick throws that are integral to WCO. Kellen runs three basic run plays over and over and if you are watching Zeke has no where to run but he gets blamed or the O-line. Wrong. When Dak gashes teams for long runs during pass plays, it’s because the play failed. Romo did this regularly and Garrett would take credit. The plays are failing.


If you watches the last Eagle game, you can see the point where McCarthy took over the play calling. Kellen was failing and McCarthy used WCO strategy with quick passes and YAC (right from Walsh) to completely disorganize the Eagles. If Kellen stays, he will have to learn the WCO. Jerry wants the WCO but then we are looking at a novice Kellen learning on the job. Has that worked for Kellen? Nope. He didn’t make it as an NFL player or a backup or a QB coach (Dak went from 36 to 58 sacks under Kellen whose sole job is to improve Daks mechanical, strategic and psychological decision marking. And he did not). Kellen is not making use of the talent on the team and the Dallas offense and team is losing. What would Sean McVey, Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan etc do with Cooper, Lamb and Gallup as well as Zeke and Pollard. They would drool to have them.

As I hung up from the counseling session, Kellen was drawing up his plays he drew up when he was seven years old. And they were still more set than winning strategy. Coryell is a failing scheme and the regular firings year after year and yet dumb GMs put hope in flat earth theory.

 

[conner01]

Wont happen, but give me Pederson.

I could get on board with that
He is creative

 

[Beaker42]

Let MM call the plays and tweak/optimize the current offensive system.

I don’t want FAMM doing anything but calling TO’s.

 

[75boyz]

I am a psychologist I just got off a counseling conference call session from Randy Fitchner, Brian Schottenheimer, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens, Scott Linehan, Bob Bratkowski, and Jason Garrett. They couldn’t understand why season after season in the last 20 years they just keep getting fired after repetitive plays, red zone stalls, wasting talent and very little misdirection or deceptive strategy that is at the high frequency that the rest of the NFL is. I consoled them that really the last time the Coryell offense had won a Super Bowl was Manning’s Colts and Warner’s Rams. Garrett tried to bring up the Ravens however Cam Cameron was fired during that Super Bowl year for running the Coryell scheme like Norv and Jason and was corrected by Jim Caldwell to make the most of Ray Rice and Flaccos skills set. Coryell is a scheme not just a playbook. It’s a theory. The West Coast offense and the very amoebic Earnhardt Perkins scheme has consistently appeared in the post season and won the Super Bowl because the modern era is about lateral misdirection, motion and constant deception on almost every play. That’s what a scheme is. Look at Dallas’s very first game this year against the Rams. What was the Rams first play? WR Woods in lateral misdirection. Kellen would have done that once and been called “creative”. That’s 1990s Coryell thinking. McVey called that formation all game and Dallas chased play design all game: building sweeps, crossing patterns, bubbles etc off of the motion. The Coryell has one benefit: novelty in the first season until the game tape shows repetition. It’s very simple and gets some results. But it’s supposed to have much more motion, play action and speed than Garrett or Kellen ever used.
There’s only two Coryell offenses active in the league right now: Kellen (who is way over his head) and Scott Turner. Garrett would use the Coryell if he were in SD next year. Joe Judge intervened with Jason around week 8 and had him change his approach to more like EP than Coryell.

Kellen has not solved Garrett’s red zone problems and unless the team moves to a modern offense, the strong WR trio, Pollard etc will be wasted game after game. The notes on Kellen this year was “he’s getting better”. But that’s a waiting game we can’t afford. He has only known one offense and designs vertical offenses that are regularly shut down in short areas. He follows illogical strategies like taking Zeke out of the backfield and putting him out on a pattern on the goal line against Pittsburgh when Pittsburgh had one concern: stop the run. When there was an empty backfield now Pittsburgh could just tee off on the QB. No play action. No pause for the WR routes like Don Coryell designed. Just 5 wide. Kellen still doesn’t understand the physics of “not enough space” for all verticals in the red zone. No crossing or picks like the rest of the league. Why the Pitt game? Dallas had that game and could have been in the playoffs. That goal line pressured interception was almost exclusively Kellens naïveté. He draws plays that that seem to lack knowledge that the defense watches his game tape and knows that Kellens (and Coryells) menu is about as diverse as a hot dog stand. Brian Billick ran a WCO that boasted over 5000 plays. Fitchner, Schottenheimer etc were fired for the same reason that the complaints amassed against Jason, Kellen, Scotts and Norv Turners offenses: same 4 plays over and over and no novelty during critical red zone or post season design. Coryell is flat earth theory. It has some visual merit but fails over time because it’s not global and certainly does not match modern knowledge.

Kellen doesn’t understand complex running plays like Shanahan or even the Sean Payton quick throws that are integral to WCO. Kellen runs three basic run plays over and over and if you are watching Zeke has no where to run but he gets blamed or the O-line. Wrong. When Dak gashes teams for long runs during pass plays, it’s because the play failed. Romo did this regularly and Garrett would take credit. The plays are failing.


If you watches the last Eagle game, you can see the point where McCarthy took over the play calling. Kellen was failing and McCarthy used WCO strategy with quick passes and YAC (right from Walsh) to completely disorganize the Eagles. If Kellen stays, he will have to learn the WCO. Jerry wants the WCO but then we are looking at a novice Kellen learning on the job. Has that worked for Kellen? Nope. He didn’t make it as an NFL player or a backup or a QB coach (Dak went from 36 to 58 sacks under Kellen whose sole job is to improve Daks mechanical, strategic and psychological decision marking. And he did not). Kellen is not making use of the talent on the team and the Dallas offense and team is losing. What would Sean McVey, Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan etc do with Cooper, Lamb and Gallup as well as Zeke and Pollard. They would drool to have them.

As I hung up from the counseling session, Kellen was drawing up his plays he drew up when he was seven years old. And they were still more set than winning strategy. Coryell is a failing scheme and the regular firings year after year and yet dumb GMs put hope in flat earth theory.

But, but but...stats and uh...
More empty stats. And even something called garbage time stats that is not widely acknowledged by this superior all knowing QB evaluation fan base.

Exceptional context bro. Feel free to post more.

 

[Mk2_Cowboys]

I vote for Jerry Jones.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

...Kellen turned down the Boise State job, I can't believe he'd leave now for the freaking iggles!... and I wouldn't know who else to bring in.

head coach of boise state!...head coach of NFL team (only 32 jobs).....

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

Dan Marino. Just to throw a name out there.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I am a psychologist I just got off a counseling conference call session from Randy Fitchner, Brian Schottenheimer, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens, Scott Linehan, Bob Bratkowski, and Jason Garrett. They couldn’t understand why season after season in the last 20 years they just keep getting fired after repetitive plays, red zone stalls, wasting talent and very little misdirection or deceptive strategy that is at the high frequency that the rest of the NFL is. I consoled them that really the last time the Coryell offense had won a Super Bowl was Manning’s Colts and Warner’s Rams. Garrett tried to bring up the Ravens however Cam Cameron was fired during that Super Bowl year for running the Coryell scheme like Norv and Jason and was corrected by Jim Caldwell to make the most of Ray Rice and Flaccos skills set. Coryell is a scheme not just a playbook. It’s a theory. The West Coast offense and the very amoebic Earnhardt Perkins scheme has consistently appeared in the post season and won the Super Bowl because the modern era is about lateral misdirection, motion and constant deception on almost every play. That’s what a scheme is. Look at Dallas’s very first game this year against the Rams. What was the Rams first play? WR Woods in lateral misdirection. Kellen would have done that once and been called “creative”. That’s 1990s Coryell thinking. McVey called that formation all game and Dallas chased play design all game: building sweeps, crossing patterns, bubbles etc off of the motion. The Coryell has one benefit: novelty in the first season until the game tape shows repetition. It’s very simple and gets some results. But it’s supposed to have much more motion, play action and speed than Garrett or Kellen ever used.
There’s only two Coryell offenses active in the league right now: Kellen (who is way over his head) and Scott Turner. Garrett would use the Coryell if he were in SD next year. Joe Judge intervened with Jason around week 8 and had him change his approach to more like EP than Coryell.

Kellen has not solved Garrett’s red zone problems and unless the team moves to a modern offense, the strong WR trio, Pollard etc will be wasted game after game. The notes on Kellen this year was “he’s getting better”. But that’s a waiting game we can’t afford. He has only known one offense and designs vertical offenses that are regularly shut down in short areas. He follows illogical strategies like taking Zeke out of the backfield and putting him out on a pattern on the goal line against Pittsburgh when Pittsburgh had one concern: stop the run. When there was an empty backfield now Pittsburgh could just tee off on the QB. No play action. No pause for the WR routes like Don Coryell designed. Just 5 wide. Kellen still doesn’t understand the physics of “not enough space” for all verticals in the red zone. No crossing or picks like the rest of the league. Why the Pitt game? Dallas had that game and could have been in the playoffs. That goal line pressured interception was almost exclusively Kellens naïveté. He draws plays that that seem to lack knowledge that the defense watches his game tape and knows that Kellens (and Coryells) menu is about as diverse as a hot dog stand. Brian Billick ran a WCO that boasted over 5000 plays. Fitchner, Schottenheimer etc were fired for the same reason that the complaints amassed against Jason, Kellen, Scotts and Norv Turners offenses: same 4 plays over and over and no novelty during critical red zone or post season design. Coryell is flat earth theory. It has some visual merit but fails over time because it’s not global and certainly does not match modern knowledge.

Kellen doesn’t understand complex running plays like Shanahan or even the Sean Payton quick throws that are integral to WCO. Kellen runs three basic run plays over and over and if you are watching Zeke has no where to run but he gets blamed or the O-line. Wrong. When Dak gashes teams for long runs during pass plays, it’s because the play failed. Romo did this regularly and Garrett would take credit. The plays are failing.


If you watches the last Eagle game, you can see the point where McCarthy took over the play calling. Kellen was failing and McCarthy used WCO strategy with quick passes and YAC (right from Walsh) to completely disorganize the Eagles. If Kellen stays, he will have to learn the WCO. Jerry wants the WCO but then we are looking at a novice Kellen learning on the job. Has that worked for Kellen? Nope. He didn’t make it as an NFL player or a backup or a QB coach (Dak went from 36 to 58 sacks under Kellen whose sole job is to improve Daks mechanical, strategic and psychological decision marking. And he did not). Kellen is not making use of the talent on the team and the Dallas offense and team is losing. What would Sean McVey, Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan etc do with Cooper, Lamb and Gallup as well as Zeke and Pollard. They would drool to have them.

As I hung up from the counseling session, Kellen was drawing up his plays he drew up when he was seven years old. And they were still more set than winning strategy. Coryell is a failing scheme and the regular firings year after year and yet dumb GMs put hope in flat earth theory.

I am not an expert on Coryell offense, so I will take your comments at face value. but I agree with you about Kellen. When we hired him last year, it was allowing the inmates run the assylum, mainly allowing Dak to stay with someone he is comfortable with, plus Garrett was desperate and out of options and thus he allowed Kellen, all of one year of coaching experience to become and OC....this is the NFL. coaches with years of league experience get taken to school every day. I said at the time, it was a bad hire...why? because we just went back to what Jerry did with Garrett, put a coach in charge that was going to learn on the job in a critical year....are we surprised it didn't work out? I said it at the time, even if Kellen is good and this genius every one says he is, he has to learn. he is going to be taken to school by smart NFL defensive coordinators. he is going to make mistakes and its going to cost us games...well guess what!!!

and Kellen is still learning. Coryell offense, as you described it, relies heavily on the players winning their individual match ups and execution. and garrett hammered that much all the time. it explains the lack of imagination and failure in execution. these are NFL players. they are all good. there is now a cap and you can't stock pile talent and deprive the competition.

Kellen is still learning and he is here because Jerry said so. Jerry trying to capture magic (ala McVey). except Kellen is no where close to McVey. Secondly I argued in the past, its not about scheme, its about game day play calling, the route combinations and pre snap motions setting up the defense and what they do against certain situations and formations and using that later to do the opposite and take advantage....in two years, perhaps the best play calling I have seen out of Kellen is against Minn. seemingly he made all the right calls.

if he moves on, I think it will be the best thing that's going to happen to this team. he is still learning. we don't have time for that and we don't have 10 years like we did with garrett

 

[gjkoeppen]

its slow day. every other post is bickering about Dak this or Dak that....same old. so just to break the routine. just a hypothetical. what if Eagles are dumb enough to hire Kellen Moore. who would you want as OC and why?

As you said if the eagles were dumb enough to offer. Anyone that thinks the eagles would offer the job to someone that has a grand total of just 3 years experience coaching in his entire life must still believe in the tooth fairy. The only reason the eagles want to talk to Moore is to try and get more insight into what the Cowboys do that they don't see in game film that Moore won't give them.
.
.

 

[gjkoeppen]

I am not an expert on Coryell offense, so I will take your comments at face value. but I agree with you about Kellen. When we hired him last year, it was allowing the inmates run the assylum, mainly allowing Dak to stay with someone he is comfortable with, plus Garrett was desperate and out of options and thus he allowed Kellen, all of one year of coaching experience to become and OC....this is the NFL. coaches with years of league experience get taken to school every day. I said at the time, it was a bad hire...why? because we just went back to what Jerry did with Garrett, put a coach in charge that was going to learn on the job in a critical year....are we surprised it didn't work out? I said it at the time, even if Kellen is good and this genius every one says he is, he has to learn. he is going to be taken to school by smart NFL defensive coordinators. he is going to make mistakes and its going to cost us games...well guess what!!!

and Kellen is still learning. Coryell offense, as you described it, relies heavily on the players winning their individual match ups and execution. and garrett hammered that much all the time. it explains the lack of imagination and failure in execution. these are NFL players. they are all good. there is now a cap and you can't stock pile talent and deprive the competition.

Kellen is still learning and he is here because Jerry said so. Jerry trying to capture magic (ala McVey). except Kellen is no where close to McVey. Secondly I argued in the past, its not about scheme, its about game day play calling, the route combinations and pre snap motions setting up the defense and what they do against certain situations and formations and using that later to do the opposite and take advantage....in two years, perhaps the best play calling I have seen out of Kellen is against Minn. seemingly he made all the right calls.

if he moves on, I think it will be the best thing that's going to happen to this team. he is still learning. we don't have time for that and we don't have 10 years like we did with garrett

Here's a news flash for you. It doesn't matter who the OC is and what plays they call, EVERY play requires ALL the players to win their individual match ups. On any play all it takes is just one player not to do his job for the play to fail.
.
.

 

[75boyz]

I am not an expert on Coryell offense, so I will take your comments at face value. but I agree with you about Kellen. When we hired him last year, it was allowing the inmates run the assylum, mainly allowing Dak to stay with someone he is comfortable with, plus Garrett was desperate and out of options and thus he allowed Kellen, all of one year of coaching experience to become and OC....this is the NFL. coaches with years of league experience get taken to school every day. I said at the time, it was a bad hire...why? because we just went back to what Jerry did with Garrett, put a coach in charge that was going to learn on the job in a critical year....are we surprised it didn't work out? I said it at the time, even if Kellen is good and this genius every one says he is, he has to learn. he is going to be taken to school by smart NFL defensive coordinators. he is going to make mistakes and its going to cost us games...well guess what!!!

and Kellen is still learning. Coryell offense, as you described it, relies heavily on the players winning their individual match ups and execution. and garrett hammered that much all the time. it explains the lack of imagination and failure in execution. these are NFL players. they are all good. there is now a cap and you can't stock pile talent and deprive the competition.

Kellen is still learning and he is here because Jerry said so. Jerry trying to capture magic (ala McVey). except Kellen is no where close to McVey. Secondly I argued in the past, its not about scheme, its about game day play calling, the route combinations and pre snap motions setting up the defense and what they do against certain situations and formations and using that later to do the opposite and take advantage....in two years, perhaps the best play calling I have seen out of Kellen is against Minn. seemingly he made all the right calls.

if he moves on, I think it will be the best thing that's going to happen to this team. he is still learning. we don't have time for that and we don't have 10 years like we did with garrett

Excellent post. Although as with Garrett, I believe King Jerry has already dubbed Kellen "the chosen one."
I guess I could be wrong on this but Jerry's systemic patterns of behavior always tend to be proven as reality.
My stance from the very first day of Moore's being retained by Mayor McCheese is this is another Garrett part II.

Like you compared him as Jerry's version of McVay. But he's not.

It's Jerry's never ending quest to prove his legitimate Football Man status he so desperately craves while his hobby team play toy ultimately suffers from it.

 

[baltcowboy]

It is scary to think that Cowboys Offensive Coordinator position is probably the best job to have if you want to be a head coach. Remember Garrett was offered the Ravens job but turned it down. As much as I hate Jerrah the GM, there are lots of perks around the league if you work for him. I see why McClay does not want to be a general manager elsewhere. The Joneses take the heat off of him and he gets paid like Howie Roseman.