The Cost of Not Signing Dak (lengthy)

OmerV

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,928
Reaction score
22,452
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
You want to sign Dak to 4-5 year deal? So did Jerry. Dak wants a shorter deal so he can hit FA right as the cap is expected to go way up and be can cash in again. He wants more than he is worth. Like you said, he's top 10 (not sure I agree but regardless). Top 10 does not get #1 or #2 money which is what he's looking for. Like you also said, the D is broken. How are you fixing that when you have so much tied up in Dak. I would love for Dak to take a deal, paying him for what he is worth as a good, not great QB, but he won't take that. You gotta bite the bullet and move on.
Actually Jerry wanted a 5 year deal. Dak was okay with 4.

As for #1 or #2 money, he was never asking for anything like Mahomes got, or even Watson, although that came later. He was looking at something along the lines of what Wentz and Goff got, with maybe a slight increase because he was negotiating more recently.

One thing people have to do is stop thinking of pay as a position ranking. It's not, and it can't be because all QB's don't negotiate new contracts at the same time under the same market conditions. That's not to say how a player stacks up against others isn't part of the negotiation, but that's only one factor. Look at the examples of Wentz and Goff, who both got a better deal than Aaron Rodgers. That wasn't a statement that Wentz and Goff are better players than Rodgers, it was just that Rodgers contract was older and negotiated under different conditions. If Rodgers had been negotiating a new deal at that time he would have commanded more pay than those guys.
 

starfan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,450
Reaction score
11,619
I mean he’s got his own football field so yes we got to sign him lol.

You make good points hawk . I do question the amount based on cap space I really hope Jerry just caves on the years and throws last years deal back on the table
 

erod

Well-Known Member
Messages
37,905
Reaction score
58,570
The cost of signing him is kissing the next half decade good bye.

Plus, you'll lose half your roster to free agency soon, and guess what? You get to negotiate with him again in 3-4 years.

He just isn't that good. Not worth any of this drama.
 

75boyz

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,097
Reaction score
9,766
If Dak is elite and can lead a team to a SB then he's worth it. Eagles extended Wentz and now might regret it which is why they are revamping their coaches to try an fix their QB issues.

Your first sentence references the ultimate debate here of the Zone QB opinion/evaluation professors.
What Jerry thinks and does with this player will determine this team's future success.

To watch it all evolve and see opinions proven right or wrong will be wildly entertaining to say the least.
 

baltcowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,176
Reaction score
16,913
TLDR: Letting Dak walk hurts this franchise a lot more than it helps us, in both the short and long term.

I have gone back and forth on the Dak-Dilemma for months. I am not a Dak hater. I consider myself a Dak-realist. He is not "elite" in my opinion (Mahommes, Rodgers are the only 2 QBs this year that qualify as elite in my estimation). Nor is he "mediocre" or "average" as many on this site claim. He is good. At times, he is really good. At other times, his play is borderline average.

And so we have arrived at a crossroads. To pay or not to pay? 2 years ago-- fans were arguing on whether or not he was worth 30 mil per year. Many said "not worth more than 25". Then Wentz and Goff signed-- and the needle moved to 34-35 mil per, and the counter was "not worth more 30". Then Mahommes and Watson signed, and the conversation is now 40 mil per and the counter is now "not worth more than 35". The simple truth is the QB market has been drastically reset over the past 2 years, and the cost of good QB play has significantly risen. Had we signed Dak 2 years ago for 30 mil, we would be in the middle of a sweetheart of a deal. But I digress....

If you let him walk... you gain cap space, yes-- but what do you lose? I've been thinking about the following items:

1. Fractured Locker-room. The players love him. He is the unquestioned leader and this is "Dak's team". If we choose to not pay him, the move will NOT be well received by the players and a riff occurs and eyebrows are raised. Add to that the pressure you put on Dak's replacement to fill his shoes on the field, and with his buddies off it-- and you have a bad situation ready to explode.

2. You lose top 10 level QB play on the field. No-- he is not top 3. But he is not middling either. IMO-- he is trending up, and his quality of play is top 10 in the NFL-- and that will win a lot of games. If you let him leave-- how do you replace his production?

3. Leadership intangibles. Related to point #1 for sure-- but Dak may have the best leadership skill of any QB in the NFL right now. Yes, Rodgers is a HOF player, but some of his teammates hate the guy. Mahommes is a stud and well-liked-- but Dak just is a natural born leader. He says the right things. He does the right things. He is football smart, but he has a high emotional IQ as well. Yes, you could trade up to draft a rookie-- but what you might gain (stress "might") in the football talent category, you more than likely lose a TON when it comes to leadership and "face of the franchise" factor.

4. You stand to lose Rep/Cred. If you let Dak walk, and he gets signed by another team, and hoists a Lombardi-- you will forever be the FO that "couldn't get a deal done with a high caliber franchise QB". Ouch. This franchise is already a laughing stock-- but that would take things to a new low-- especially if the "solution" they bring in to replace Dak doesn't pan out.

Therefore-- the best thing for the entire franchise is to sign Dak to a 4-5 year deal. We will overpay. But the number most fans are comfortable with paying him has already moved from 25 million per year 2 years ago, to 35 million per year now. As a fan-- Are you really willing to let him walk and potentially suffer the fallout over a 5 million per year difference?
In the voice of Chris Berman “This is gonna be good”.
 

Aviano90

Go Seahawks!!!
Messages
16,758
Reaction score
24,485
The cost of signing him is kissing the next half decade good bye.

Plus, you'll lose half your roster to free agency soon, and guess what? You get to negotiate with him again in 3-4 years.

He just isn't that good. Not worth any of this drama.
We already have bad contracts making us kiss the next half decade away. Dak should walk away.
 

TexasBacon

Well-Known Member
Messages
587
Reaction score
1,440
The cost of signing him is kissing the next half decade good bye.

Plus, you'll lose half your roster to free agency soon, and guess what? You get to negotiate with him again in 3-4 years.

He just isn't that good. Not worth any of this drama.
Yeah, great plan. Then we can waste the careers of all of the investments we've made in the offense trying to limp along with a washed up veteran QB or pray we strike gold again with a mid first round QB who will take a couple of years to develop at best (then Amari, maybe Gallup, Tyron, and maybe even Martin are gone or at least past their prime), or an even later round QB. Or we can trade up to one of the top spots and blow all the picks we need to rebuild the defense to get a top of the first round QB who may still not even be a sure thing.

It's pretty simple. You sign Dak, you use the draft to build the defense plus 1 big FA signing and then a few veteran signings and go from there. There are going to be a ton of 1 year deals in FA this year due to the cap so hopefully they can get some good additions for cheap. Or maybe they'll screw up and sign 4 worthless FA's again like they did last year. Who knows. All I know is that with Dak, a healthy offense, and a middle of the road defense we have a pretty great chance at a SB appearance. They are much closer if they sign Dak, build the D in the draft and use what cap space they can in FA. If they let Dak walk they are still incredibly far away on defense and now you go from a top 5 offense to a top 15 offense at best, and that's if you sign a decent QB.

This year's offense when healthy coupled with even the 2018 defense could contend. I think going back to the 4-3 will help the defense immensely. They just need to not be awful. But without Dak they need to be good because the offense won't be scoring 35 points a game. I think they can sign Dak and contend in 2021 but almost certainly 2022 after 2 drafts even with the cap where it's at. Remember all of the other teams will be dealing with the same cap issues.

I don't know why I typed all of this, lol. It's the same people making the same dumb arguments on every thread about not signing Dak and I don't think they'd listen to even Bill Parcells or Bill Belichick if they said the Cowboys should keep Dak.
 

JBS

Well-Known Member
Messages
21,628
Reaction score
22,365
The cost of signing him is kissing the next half decade good bye.

Plus, you'll lose half your roster to free agency soon, and guess what? You get to negotiate with him again in 3-4 years.

He just isn't that good. Not worth any of this drama.

Have you ever seen a contract that you cant get out of for 5 years? What an exaggeration this post is
 

75boyz

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,097
Reaction score
9,766
Yeah, great plan. Then we can waste the careers of all of the investments we've made in the offense trying to limp along with a washed up veteran QB or pray we strike gold again with a mid first round QB who will take a couple of years to develop at best (then Amari, maybe Gallup, Tyron, and maybe even Martin are gone or at least past their prime), or an even later round QB. Or we can trade up to one of the top spots and blow all the picks we need to rebuild the defense to get a top of the first round QB who may still not even be a sure thing.

It's pretty simple. You sign Dak, you use the draft to build the defense plus 1 big FA signing and then a few veteran signings and go from there. There are going to be a ton of 1 year deals in FA this year due to the cap so hopefully they can get some good additions for cheap. Or maybe they'll screw up and sign 4 worthless FA's again like they did last year. Who knows. All I know is that with Dak, a healthy offense, and a middle of the road defense we have a pretty great chance at a SB appearance. They are much closer if they sign Dak, build the D in the draft and use what cap space they can in FA. If they let Dak walk they are still incredibly far away on defense and now you go from a top 5 offense to a top 15 offense at best, and that's if you sign a decent QB.

This year's offense when healthy coupled with even the 2018 defense could contend. I think going back to the 4-3 will help the defense immensely. They just need to not be awful. But without Dak they need to be good because the offense won't be scoring 35 points a game. I think they can sign Dak and contend in 2021 but almost certainly 2022 after 2 drafts even with the cap where it's at. Remember all of the other teams will be dealing with the same cap issues.

I don't know why I typed all of this, lol. It's the same people making the same dumb arguments on every thread about not signing Dak and I don't think they'd listen to even Bill Parcells or Bill Belichick if they said the Cowboys should keep Dak.

True I guess if you have full confidence in a guy who is 9-11 in his last 20 starts.

Or a HC with over 25 years of offensive experience leading that QB but...that HC jus so happens to be 16-27-1 in his last 44 games as HC. Oh yeah, and he's not calling the offense.

I mean if wins and losses by Head coaches and QBs mean anything with regards to how they are paid.

Lemme guess...

Injuries and covid for 2020 AND defense and Nolan

And Garrett for 2019

Sign me up, lifetime contracts for the Dak and McCarthy team
 

Silver N Blue

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,295
Reaction score
8,815
TLDR: Letting Dak walk hurts this franchise a lot more than it helps us, in both the short and long term.

I have gone back and forth on the Dak-Dilemma for months. I am not a Dak hater. I consider myself a Dak-realist. He is not "elite" in my opinion (Mahommes, Rodgers are the only 2 QBs this year that qualify as elite in my estimation). Nor is he "mediocre" or "average" as many on this site claim. He is good. At times, he is really good. At other times, his play is borderline average.

And so we have arrived at a crossroads. To pay or not to pay? 2 years ago-- fans were arguing on whether or not he was worth 30 mil per year. Many said "not worth more than 25". Then Wentz and Goff signed-- and the needle moved to 34-35 mil per, and the counter was "not worth more 30". Then Mahommes and Watson signed, and the conversation is now 40 mil per and the counter is now "not worth more than 35". The simple truth is the QB market has been drastically reset over the past 2 years, and the cost of good QB play has significantly risen. Had we signed Dak 2 years ago for 30 mil, we would be in the middle of a sweetheart of a deal. But I digress....

If you let him walk... you gain cap space, yes-- but what do you lose? I've been thinking about the following items:

1. Fractured Locker-room. The players love him. He is the unquestioned leader and this is "Dak's team". If we choose to not pay him, the move will NOT be well received by the players and a riff occurs and eyebrows are raised. Add to that the pressure you put on Dak's replacement to fill his shoes on the field, and with his buddies off it-- and you have a bad situation ready to explode.

2. You lose top 10 level QB play on the field. No-- he is not top 3. But he is not middling either. IMO-- he is trending up, and his quality of play is top 10 in the NFL-- and that will win a lot of games. If you let him leave-- how do you replace his production?

3. Leadership intangibles. Related to point #1 for sure-- but Dak may have the best leadership skill of any QB in the NFL right now. Yes, Rodgers is a HOF player, but some of his teammates hate the guy. Mahommes is a stud and well-liked-- but Dak just is a natural born leader. He says the right things. He does the right things. He is football smart, but he has a high emotional IQ as well. Yes, you could trade up to draft a rookie-- but what you might gain (stress "might") in the football talent category, you more than likely lose a TON when it comes to leadership and "face of the franchise" factor.

4. You stand to lose Rep/Cred. If you let Dak walk, and he gets signed by another team, and hoists a Lombardi-- you will forever be the FO that "couldn't get a deal done with a high caliber franchise QB". Ouch. This franchise is already a laughing stock-- but that would take things to a new low-- especially if the "solution" they bring in to replace Dak doesn't pan out.

Therefore-- the best thing for the entire franchise is to sign Dak to a 4-5 year deal. We will overpay. But the number most fans are comfortable with paying him has already moved from 25 million per year 2 years ago, to 35 million per year now. As a fan-- Are you really willing to let him walk and potentially suffer the fallout over a 5 million per year difference?
Great post hoss, right there with ya and agree with all your takes.
 

kskboys

Well-Known Member
Messages
44,842
Reaction score
47,661
Of course he wants security, but that isn't a stand alone point. If security was the only consideration for players nobody would be getting $30+ million a year because they can be plenty secure on half that. On top of security players want what they feel is fair in the marketplace, as do people in jobs all over the country.
Disagree. He wanted more than what was fair.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

CowboysFaninDC
Messages
31,715
Reaction score
17,987
TLDR: Letting Dak walk hurts this franchise a lot more than it helps us, in both the short and long term.

I have gone back and forth on the Dak-Dilemma for months. I am not a Dak hater. I consider myself a Dak-realist. He is not "elite" in my opinion (Mahommes, Rodgers are the only 2 QBs this year that qualify as elite in my estimation). Nor is he "mediocre" or "average" as many on this site claim. He is good. At times, he is really good. At other times, his play is borderline average.

And so we have arrived at a crossroads. To pay or not to pay? 2 years ago-- fans were arguing on whether or not he was worth 30 mil per year. Many said "not worth more than 25". Then Wentz and Goff signed-- and the needle moved to 34-35 mil per, and the counter was "not worth more 30". Then Mahommes and Watson signed, and the conversation is now 40 mil per and the counter is now "not worth more than 35". The simple truth is the QB market has been drastically reset over the past 2 years, and the cost of good QB play has significantly risen. Had we signed Dak 2 years ago for 30 mil, we would be in the middle of a sweetheart of a deal. But I digress....

If you let him walk... you gain cap space, yes-- but what do you lose? I've been thinking about the following items:

1. Fractured Locker-room. The players love him. He is the unquestioned leader and this is "Dak's team". If we choose to not pay him, the move will NOT be well received by the players and a riff occurs and eyebrows are raised. Add to that the pressure you put on Dak's replacement to fill his shoes on the field, and with his buddies off it-- and you have a bad situation ready to explode.

2. You lose top 10 level QB play on the field. No-- he is not top 3. But he is not middling either. IMO-- he is trending up, and his quality of play is top 10 in the NFL-- and that will win a lot of games. If you let him leave-- how do you replace his production?

3. Leadership intangibles. Related to point #1 for sure-- but Dak may have the best leadership skill of any QB in the NFL right now. Yes, Rodgers is a HOF player, but some of his teammates hate the guy. Mahommes is a stud and well-liked-- but Dak just is a natural born leader. He says the right things. He does the right things. He is football smart, but he has a high emotional IQ as well. Yes, you could trade up to draft a rookie-- but what you might gain (stress "might") in the football talent category, you more than likely lose a TON when it comes to leadership and "face of the franchise" factor.

4. You stand to lose Rep/Cred. If you let Dak walk, and he gets signed by another team, and hoists a Lombardi-- you will forever be the FO that "couldn't get a deal done with a high caliber franchise QB". Ouch. This franchise is already a laughing stock-- but that would take things to a new low-- especially if the "solution" they bring in to replace Dak doesn't pan out.

Therefore-- the best thing for the entire franchise is to sign Dak to a 4-5 year deal. We will overpay. But the number most fans are comfortable with paying him has already moved from 25 million per year 2 years ago, to 35 million per year now. As a fan-- Are you really willing to let him walk and potentially suffer the fallout over a 5 million per year difference?
great post. I have argued the same thing....and even if we had 30M extra on the cap, it would be difficult to find enough defensive FA difference makers to compensate for the huge drop in QB play......and when I have asked the Dak detractors, who they want as a QB? its often silence or Dalton :facepalm: ....and I asked them who they want in FA and how much they cost and is that going to make the defense dominant, I hear nothing. most of them have no answer. their only point is that I don't want to pay Dak 40M...I just don't like the number and a lot of them are ok with 35 but as you said, 5M is not the difference of having a dominant defense and not having a dominant defense....

Dak is the best option moving forward and keep us competitive.....the biggest issue we have to solve is defensive drafting. we suck at that.
 
Last edited:

TexasBacon

Well-Known Member
Messages
587
Reaction score
1,440
True I guess if you have full confidence in a guy who is 9-11 in his last 20 starts.

Or a HC with over 25 years of offensive experience leading that QB but...that HC jus so happens to be 16-27-1 in his last 44 games as HC. Oh yeah, and he's not calling the offense.

I mean if wins and losses by Head coaches and QBs mean anything with regards to how they are paid.

Lemme guess...

Injuries and covid for 2020 AND defense and Nolan

And Garrett for 2019

Sign me up, lifetime contracts for the Dak and McCarthy team

Nice cherry picking stats to fit your narrative. He's also taken us to the Divisional round twice in 4 full seasons. And I don't know if you know how football works but it takes more than just a QB to win games. You need at least a decent defense. Dak constantly puts the team in a position to win. I do blame last year's failure to make the playoffs on many of Garrett's coaching decisions, the defense, and we would have one at least 2 more games had they cut Maher earlier in the season far more than I blame Dak. If you're ignoring all of those factors and acting like Dak should have won in spite of them then you are truly hopeless or just don't understand football or the NFL.

Time will tell with McCarthy. I was not happy with many of his decisions this year. But yeah, when your entire offensive line and franchise QB are injured I'm not going to crucify him. An excessive amount of turnovers (some of which Dak made, sure) that were more an anomaly than the norm and a historically bad defense cost us every game Dak lost when he did play this year, and the offense was consistently scoring over 30 points a game. Dak was making great throws and has looked better and better each year. If there was some perfect alternative to Dak then maybe I'd be OK with letting him walk but there's not. You're taking a huge risk either way. Either you pay him and have an elite QB and a smaller cap or you don't and are back to square one at the position without a top 3 pick to replace him and without any elite prospects on the horizon in the next few years and you waste the remaining time you have with several pro bowl offensive players while you try washed up vets or try to develop a new QB. IF you even hit on one. I'd much rather roll the dice and slightly overpay Dak since this team is already built to succeed with a potent offense.
 
Top