25 years of frustration "I get it" But

[starfan1]

This is not probabilities like in statistics class. This is organization and team building. It’s all Jerry, it starts from the top. The Cowboy team building process is flawed.
How did Andy reach 4straight title games with the Eagles and then with the Chiefs?
How did Landry coach this team to 20 straight winning seasons? It was his culture and how he built the team and organization.

to be fair that is a different era and yes he was a legendary coach but im not sure his style is as successful today. Maybe it is

 

[starfan1]

Nolan stunk.

But they had clear issues at DT and S. Two positions that the front office continues to half *** it when it comes to trying to improve the play. And that seemingly is going to continue after our massive signing of Carlos Watkins at DT.

honestly its easy to blame the front office for decisions they make but I am one who is not going to take last year as a benchmark. Too many injuries, COVID and no training camps new coaches. Outside of Tampa bay the playoff contenders were riddled with teams that didnt make alot of changes from prior year and didnt get hit too hard with injury bug

 

[Denim Chicken]

 

[Sydla]

well certainly there is the leadership buck stops with him. I just think that is part of the equation not the complete part

It's the largest part of the problem. Jerry affects every aspect of the team. He picks the coaches and allows them whatever freedom he deems necessary to give them. He and his son sign off on the offseason strategy - what FAs to target, how much to spend, who to draft, etc. They then largely decide the final roster. They also have a major influence on the overall culture of the team through how they act, the coaches they hire, etc.

IMO you are wasting your time and breath talking about the overall big picture problems of this team if you think the issues are tied to certain players.

 

[Sydla]

honestly its easy to blame the front office for decisions they make but I am one who is not going to take last year as a benchmark. Too many injuries, COVID and no training camps new coaches. Outside of Tampa bay the playoff contenders were riddled with teams that didnt make alot of changes from prior year and didnt get hit too hard with injury bug

The problem is you act like this is one year here. They have employed this strategy of half assing it in FA with warm bodies for multiple offseasons now and the results are pretty bad.

You are just trying to rationalize away the very real fact that this team has a front office problem. I suspect you struggle to acknowledge that because deep down you realize it's likely not changing since Jerry is the owner and the player personnel guy. So you have to hope that the problems this franchise faces that have led to 25 years with only 4 playoff wins is just due to bad luck or player issues. Unfortunately, the core problems have nothing to really do with the players.

 

[fivetwos]

I will agree there is culture of acceptability with subpar efforts. Whether that permeated because of JGeezy or Jones is a valid ?

Well there's many times they go out there and stink then Jerry gets on the radio defending it because he has to sell his product and justify him running the team.

Does that strike fear into players, or motivate them to be better?

Not at all.

Losing is very acceptable, and hey...why not? Its much easier.

Its not about winning for Dallas players. Its about being a celebrity and getting paid.

 

[HungryLion]

 

[fivetwos]

I think the failure of last year in FA has made them a bit gun shy this year. Though it is mostly cap and there is just no one FA really going to make a huge difference. As the defense was decent with Marinelli at times, then injuries and Nolan was the main reason last season. So maybe they feel with Quinn, they can get back to at least where Marinelli was. Which if this defense was middle of the pack, or slightly above, they could have won the division.

What looked like a good FA group last year, fell apart, and was horrible. So I think that could be part of the reasoning this season.

They remain gun shy over the last premium FA they signed....a decade ago.

 

[75boyz]

I don't understand the Cowboys winning team reference point for some posters as to determine the possible foundation for their team expectations.

Those old enough to have enjoyed both the 70s and 90s winning of this team usually have a foundational expectation level of contending for titles as their standard.

Those old enough to have enjoyed just the 90s mini run on excellence may/may not have just about the same standard expectation level of the older, previously mentioned group.

The current early 30s/late 20s aged group crowd only know this present futility as a standard to what their Cowboys team environment has always been and measure empty regular seasons and non advancing divisional title winners as some sort of accomplishment.

One of the newer Mods memes attached to his avatar is "Respect is earned in the Playoffs". I agree with this as I am of the first mentioned older group. My standard for this team was shaped from their previous consistent winning and contending for titles as mentioned earlier. The Cowboys have not earned consistent respect as a playoff contender for a very long time based on this belief.

Expectation standards are like opinions I guess.

Everybody's got'em.

And that's mine.

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

People been saying 25 years for at least 10 years.

 

[Grenic]

My God people, they are going to spend anything we all have known that for months

 

[starfan1]

It's the largest part of the problem. Jerry affects every aspect of the team. He picks the coaches and allows them whatever freedom he deems necessary to give them. He and his son sign off on the offseason strategy - what FAs to target, how much to spend, who to draft, etc. They then largely decide the final roster. They also have a major influence on the overall culture of the team through how they act, the coaches they hire, etc.

IMO you are wasting your time and breath talking about the overall big picture problems of this team if you think the issues are tied to certain players.

its all of the above ya jerry is common denominator and he can be annoying but that is a pretty simplistic view if we say its FO and them alone.

Just a couple examples being 2016 and 2014 Jerry put a good enough team in place without a doubt. Abad and and 1 less fumble respectively were having a different discussion.

 

[starfan1]

The problem is you act like this is one year here. They have employed this strategy of half assing it in FA with warm bodies for multiple offseasons now and the results are pretty bad.

You are just trying to rationalize away the very real fact that this team has a front office problem. I suspect you struggle to acknowledge that because deep down you realize it's likely not changing since Jerry is the owner and the player personnel guy. So you have to hope that the problems this franchise faces that have led to 25 years with only 4 playoff wins is just due to bad luck or player issues. Unfortunately, the core problems have nothing to really do with the players.

ok dr.Phil
No i don't have any issues with jerry being part of the issue or (FO). Im just not going to say its the only reason for our failures yes they can be blamed for hanging on to JGeezy too long but there were more than 1 team that JGeezy coached that could have or should have made it further than they did. Coaching failures and player execution cost them in those years.heck for that matter a questionable call cost them.

 

[starfan1]

Well there's many times they go out there and stink then Jerry gets on the radio defending it because he has to sell his product and justify him running the team.

Does that strike fear into players, or motivate them to be better?

Not at all.

Losing is very acceptable, and hey...why not? Its much easier.

Its not about winning for Dallas players. Its about being a celebrity and getting paid.

this current group is not a likeable group but i do think they want to win.I played football and losing sucks I cant imagine if they are competitors they are ok with losing

 

[Sydla]

its all of the above ya jerry is common denominator and he can be annoying but that is a pretty simplistic view if we say its FO and them alone.

Just a couple examples being 2016 and 2014 Jerry put a good enough team in place without a doubt. Abad and and 1 less fumble respectively were having a different discussion.

You are talking about two decent teams (neither was all that talented on defense mind you) in the last 10 years, for example.

Yes, it's mostly the FO. It's bizarre that you think otherwise. You want to blame a player. Well who picked that player? There's no equally shared blame here. The bulk of the responsibility for why this franchise is failing is the GM. It's just that simple.

 

[Sydla]

ok dr.Phil
No i don't have any issues with jerry being part of the issue or (FO). Im just not going to say its the only reason for our failures yes they can be blamed for hanging on to JGeezy too long but there were more than 1 team that JGeezy coached that could have or should have made it further than they did. Coaching failures and player execution cost them in those years.heck for that matter a questionable call cost them.

But you seem to have an issue.

Jerry isn't "part" of the problem as if he's 25%, bad luck is 25%, this coach is 25% and that player is the other 25%.

Jerry controls every aspect of the team. He has more influence on how this team performs than any sole person associated with the Cowboys. He picks the players. He picks the coaches. If the coach isn't good enough, that's on Jerry for hiring him. If a player isn't good enough, that's on Jerry. You seemingly struggle to admit that by far the largest reason this franchise struggles is the GM.

 

[JBS]

Imagine watching this defense last year, after 25 years of straight failure, seeing the team do absolutely nothing in free agency to improve, and then creating this thread lololol..

Unreal

 

[starfan1]

You are talking about two decent teams (neither was all that talented on defense mind you) in the last 10 years, for example.

Yes, it's mostly the FO. It's bizarre that you think otherwise. You want to blame a player. Well who picked that player? There's no equally shared blame here. The bulk of the responsibility for why this franchise is failing is the GM. It's just that simple.

No its just not simplistic. I blame jerry for alot mostly the culture but J Geezy played a role as did some of the other coahes and certainly i think the players have failed at times too. Sure Jerry could go out and spend a bunch on players but ultimately they have to be put in the best system to win and they need to be held accountable for bad execution

I dont think jerry is telling the coaches dont get on my players but if you need a single scapegoat jerry is a good one because hes definitely part of the problem

 

[Golfzilla77]

That's just too simple of an explanation for my blood. I agree with the OP. It's a variety of reasons and not the same every year.

It may be the that simple --- JJ is the only common thread in these past 25 years of futility. And the Patriots won 6 Super Bowls with a league system designed to keep teams from staying on top. It is rather depressing.

 

[dckid]

to be fair that is a different era and yes he was a legendary coach but im not sure his style is as successful today. Maybe it is

Of course @starfan1, I had just brought up one example. But the examples are endless.
Bill Parcells with the Giants, then the Patriots, then the Jets and even to some extent the Cowboys. I didnt always agree with Parcells when he came to Dallas as I felt he was too conservative but he had a culture of winning and accountability that was missing since Jimmy left.
Jimmy Johnson came in 89 and saw the Cowboys had zero talent, the old regime just totally let this team decay away. He came in and cleaned house there were just a few guys on the 92 SB that were on the old team. Newton, Tunei, Irvin, Jeffcoat, I am sure a few others but the team was turned over.
Think about this he performed a rebuild to SB champion in 4 seasons...Man I got on tangents but this for guys like @Rockport & @JoeKing who are always disagreeing with me.
Even if we had tanked this year and decided to reset within 2 years you have a new team. Rebuilds do not take long in the NFL. You have to have the cahunas to do it. Have a vision.
Culture eats strategy for breakfast... Yes its a cliche but it is true.
Bill in NE has a culture, Parcells had a culture, Andy, Jimmy Johnson, The Steelers, Ravens, all great organizations start at the top and constantly try to improve their team.
There is no one way to do it.
What the Jones have done to the Cowboys is despicable, it is laughable, the only reason they don't have fans with bags on their heads is the 3 SB's that Jerry got because of Jimmy. Yes he hired him I get it... He does get credit for that. Jerry is not like the Bidwells, or the Brown family... The truth of the matter is... (most important). Super Bowl wins don't mean anything to him. He has three. He is a HOF owner, most valuable franchise. He just wants to keep this jig going. Just float down the river and make sure his team is in the conversation. All publicity is good. The Fact that Stephen A loves to see is lose is music to Jerry's ears. The Cowboys are still relevant in the media. He wants to go between 7-9 & 9-7....
I as a fan have already realized this years ago. Even though I know this it still burns me up.
But the fact that so many fans don't realize this and I get attacked and recently got banned for day with some blueblood character just blows my mind.
This team and organization is just stuck.. 26 years and no championship game appearance. Buckle down for another 10... it is not happening until the ownership realizes a change is required.