Sick of Hearing About NT

[Chuck 54]

I’m sick of hearing about nose tackles. We do not need to sign or draft a NT. We don’t have to have 1 fat run stuffer and 1 penetrating playmaker.

Look at the history of great Dallas defenses....you do not need a run stuffing nose tackle like NE’s Wilfork in a 4-3. If you have two really good DTs, you’re set.

Lilly and Pugh
Pugh and White
White and Dutton
Maryland and Casilas
Maryland and Lett

You just can not run garbage DTs out there who wouldn’t start on most teams.

Crawford and Hayden?
Collins and Crawford?
Collins and Woods?
Poe and Crawford?

Give me 2 good, athletic DTs who can penetrate, chase, make plays behind the line and chase plays down the line, and I’ll take that any day over all the 1 and 3 tech talk. We brought in FA DTs who will add to the rotation and improve our run defense, but our current hopes are on Hill and Gallimore, who are both athletic and big. Draft another good DT. I don’t care if he’s a star or a Jimmy Jones, but add one more young guy who can actually play.

(History: Randy White was drafted in 1975, #2 overall, at 6’4” and 257 lbs. He was a backup at MLB for two seasons, playing only on special teams while Larry Cole played out of position at DT. He didn’t even play DT until his 3rd season whenCole was finally able to return to DE)

 

[Shake_Tiller]

I’m sick of hearing about nose tackles. We do not need to sign or draft a NT. We don’t have to have 1 fat run stuffer and 1 penetrating playmaker.

Look at the history of great Dallas defenses....you do not need a run stuffing nose tackle like NE’s Wilfork in a 4-3. If you have two really good DTs, you’re set.

Lilly and Pugh
Pugh and White
White and Dutton
Maryland and Casilas
Maryland and Lett

You just can not run garbage DTs out there who wouldn’t start on most teams.

Crawford and Hayden?
Collins and Crawford?
Collins and Woods?
Poe and Crawford?

Give me 2 good, athletic DTs who can penetrate, chase, make plays behind the line and chase plays down the line, and I’ll take that any day over all the 1 and 3 tech talk. We brought in FA DTs who will add to the rotation and improve our run defense, but our current hopes are on Hill and Gallimore, who are both athletic and big. Draft another good DT. I don’t care if he’s a star or a Jimmy Jones, but add one more young guy who can actually play.

(History: Randy White was drafted in 1975, #2 overall, at 6’4” and 257 lbs. He was a backup at MLB for two seasons, playing only on special teams while Larry Cole played out of position at DT. He didn’t even play DT until his 3rd season whenCole was finally able to return to DE)

Could not agree more. Now more than ever, given RPOs and stretch plays, clubs need mobile defensive linemen. The Cowboys' problem hasn't been the lack of a fat guy. The Cowboys' problem has been the lack of a 4-man rotation of quality players. Urban will help some. I hope they get a bit more help in the draft -- or sign Jarran Reed.

 

[fivetwos]

I’m sick of hearing about nose tackles. We do not need to sign or draft a NT. We don’t have to have 1 fat run stuffer and 1 penetrating playmaker.

Look at the history of great Dallas defenses....you do not need a run stuffing nose tackle like NE’s Wilfork in a 4-3. If you have two really good DTs, you’re set.

Lilly and Pugh
Pugh and White
White and Dutton
Maryland and Casilas
Maryland and Lett

You just can not run garbage DTs out there who wouldn’t start on most teams.

Crawford and Hayden?
Collins and Crawford?
Collins and Woods?
Poe and Crawford?

Give me 2 good, athletic DTs who can penetrate, chase, make plays behind the line and chase plays down the line, and I’ll take that any day over all the 1 and 3 tech talk. We brought in FA DTs who will add to the rotation and improve our run defense, but our current hopes are on Hill and Gallimore, who are both athletic and big. Draft another good DT. I don’t care if he’s a star or a Jimmy Jones, but add one more young guy who can actually play.

(History: Randy White was drafted in 1975, #2 overall, at 6’4” and 257 lbs. He was a backup at MLB for two seasons, playing only on special teams while Larry Cole played out of position at DT. He didn’t even play DT until his 3rd season whenCole was finally able to return to DE)

I tend to agree.

I dont think the teams history much much to do with it though.

All I know is they need more talent up front and Reed would be a major upgrade.

 

[Clarke82]

I could not disagree more.

The NFL has changed and is playing more defensive backs on defense and getting more spread out.

That means the 1T DT is becoming more of a need because smaller LB's and the DB's don't shed blocks they run around them creating holes.

Therefore, keeping the O-Line busy is very important because, it allows your LB's and DB's to run and hit.

The '70's thru 90's Cowboys also depended on Fullbacks as a key part of the offense.

Things change so, the importance of positions change.

 

[jazzcat22]

Oh, boy, this will get the couch / basement GM's fired up.

I agree, get players that can play. Maybe we see a big jump with Hill & Gallimore this season as to their contribution. Add Urban and Watkins in that mix as well. Maybe they draft a DT also. I am not sold on Woods making the team, ready to move on from him. Draft Barrymore possibly.
Bring in Reed maybe?

 

[KingintheNorth]

Give me 2 good, athletic DTs who can penetrate, chase, make plays behind the line and chase plays down the line, and I’ll take that any day over all the 1 and 3 tech talk.

And you will continue to not be able to make stops on 3rd and short, 4th and short.

The Cowboys have subscribed to your theory for years and they've also been a really bad defense for years.

 

[RamziD]

Could not agree more. Now more than ever, given RPOs and stretch plays, clubs need mobile defensive linemen. The Cowboys' problem hasn't been the lack of a fat guy. The Cowboys' problem has been the lack of a 4-man rotation of quality players. Urban will help some. I hope they get a bit more help in the draft -- or sign Jarran Reed.

The Cowboys’ problem is defending the run up the middle. Needs to be fixed with a DT. Fat, lean, doesn’t matter.

 

[visionary]

Man, what a post

 

[Malhavoc]

The lack of talent on the DL has always been the problem. The team also went all in on Smith and LVE and lost. That group has to be rebuilt. You can’t throw 5th and 6th round picks at the problem and hope to solve it. I think in this draft we have to walk way with 2 DL and a LB that you think can take over next year after learning the ropes.

 

[Bigdog]

CJ Anderson and all the street FA running backs approve this message.

 

[Knotamus]

There’s good reason folks are advocating a “Big Body” DT or 1T. Typically these players occupy/clog the middle for run defense, demand double teams to free up the pass rushers and LBers. This isn’t a new theory, it’s tried and true. So I get where the outcry and I’m not necessarily against it. Yet, if we’re going that route, just draft a big guy in the mid rounds.

That said, a “big guy” that can do all the things said above AND can still create a push up front.. cost money, exp if sacks are included.

The rumor about Jarran Reed is enticing, but I worry about his past legal concerns. If the FO is fine with it.. then sign me up.

 

[speedkilz88]

Quinn's defense doesn't use that big of a body. Brandon Mebane in Seattle was a former 3T and was listed at 6-1 311.
Tyeler Davison with the Falcons is listed at 6-2 316.

Jarran Reed is a 3T (Poona Ford is Seattle's 1T at 5-11 309)

 

[plasticman]

A 3-4 defense requires an NT. The successful ones have specific attributes. This is also true of the DE's.

Which leads me to question the concept of a "Hybrid' defense. The attributes of the front seven of both defenses are in contradiction to each other.

In a 4-3 the DT's must be quicker and more athletic. They must aggressively challenge the offensive lines and find the ball. They will make more plays than an NT, they will make more tackles. An NT for a 3-4 will have the characteristics of a wide body, heavy but strong, difficult to move off the line unless attacked by multiple blockers. It is their job to get in the way, close down corridors, force the RB's to make extra steps, allow the LB's to get to the RB.

The LB's are the true stars in a 3-4. They will have the numbers. the DE's in a 3-4 are like the DT's in a 4-3. They will be bigger and stronger, not as quick. It is their job to control the line of scrimmage in both running and passing. They will not rush the QB as aggressively.

So where does a 3-4 find it's ability to put pressure on a QB? It comes from the "mystery" pass rusher, the 4th guy who can come from anywhere. it is the confusion and uncertainty created by that 4th guy that is responsible for pressuring the QB.

it seems to me that, if you run a hybrid, you are a jack of all trades, master of none. They would requite DT's with a modified set of skills if you will. They will possess a reasonable set of attributes for both types of defenses but not an elite skill set for either.

An additional consideration is the evolution of the NFL offenses of today where more and more emphasis is placed on the passing game to where the traditional 2RB-2WR-TE design is becoming more and more rare. We are seeing more of the RB-3WR-TE and RB-2WR-2TE formations which result in nickel and dime defenses becoming more prevalent. Under these circumstances, it would seem that the 3-4 defenses are better designed to handle them given the diverse requirements of their LB's skill set. They should be able to rush the passer or defend a receiving TE or RB. We see further evolution of defenses adjusting to current offensive styles where a 3-4 linebacker or a 4-3 safety becomes more of a "tweener'.

 

[BourbonBalz]

Bringing up our DTs from the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s makes no sense regarding today’s game. There were no (or very few in the 80’s) 300+ lb. offensive or defensive linemen then. I’m not even sure if DTs were called 1Techs or 3 Techs then. The game has changed. Players sizes have greatly changed. I do believe we need a run stuffing 1Tech.

 

[charron]

The problem with this is that if it was this easy to find those types of guys that really fit marinelli scheme in played well we wouldn't be having this conversation the fact is it's hard to find those guys it's easier to find guys who can just stop the run and offer almost no pass rush or guys that can rush and aren't really all that great at stopping the run.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

This is silly. So because past defenses don't have them that means this one doesn't need one? There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with having a NT. It will not hurt your defense.

And if you want to use examples.....when this team had Jay Ratliff while he was a great player they still needed a fat nose tackle then to soak up some blocks. Had they had one Ratliff would've been even better as would our linebackers.


Man...Jerry and Stephen have neglected the position so bad that now people are justifying why we don't need one.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Quinn's defense doesn't use that big of a body. Brandon Mebane in Seattle was a former 3T and was listed at 6-1 311.
Tyeler Davison with the Falcons is listed at 6-2 316.

Jarran Reed is a 3T (Poona Ford is Seattle's 1T at 5-11 309)

Its not like Quin's defenses were that great recently to say what he needs or doesn't. He needs to switch some things up based on what I Saw last year.

 

[speedkilz88]

This is silly. So because past defenses don't have them that means this one doesn't need one? There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with having a NT. It will not hurt your defense.

And if you want to use examples.....when this team had Jay Ratliff while he was a great player they still needed a fat nose tackle then to soak up some blocks. Had they had one Ratliff would've been even better as would our linebackers.


Man...Jerry and Stephen have neglected the position so bad that now people are justifying why we don't need one.

Ratliff was Parcell's & Wade Phillips' NT.

Now if he had hung around for Marinelli then maybe he could have switched to 3T and had even more production.

 

[Knotamus]

Quinn's defense doesn't use that big of a body. Brandon Mebane in Seattle was a former 3T and was listed at 6-1 311.
Tyeler Davison with the Falcons is listed at 6-2 316.

Jarran Reed is a 3T (Poona Ford is Seattle's 1T at 5-11 309)

I agree. I believe most people (including myself) want the run defense shored up, so they point the finger at DT. It’s not as simple as “plug a fat guy” in the middle, as some suggest. A understanding of how “4-3 Under” scheme popularized by Monte Kiffin, would clear things up. The linebackers played a big part in our poor run defense.

That said, the FO has already made a few major moves, albeit under the radar or less inspiring to some. Ridding ourselves of Mike Nolan’s garbage scheme, and returning to a familiar scheme that most these players were drafted for.. is a major improvement in and of itself. Also, letting washed up player like Poe and Crawford go and replacing them with Urban and presumed draft pick is a upgrade regardless of name recognition. The emergence of Gallimore and getting Tristen Hill back from injury also helps. And Dallas will surely add another before or after the draft when veterans are forced to lower their salary demands.

My biggest worry is at LB. Jaylon is a big hitter, but he has proven he can’t shed blocks. He certainly be moved to Sam LB. I’d say they should cut him, but now that his salary is guaranteed.. I don’t see that happening. LVE proved his best fit is Will LB, so that leaves a big vacancy at the most important LB position.. the Mike LB. Again, the Mike has to be able to shed blocks, be a proven tackler at the LOS, and show coverage ability.

I know that’s the long route to say.. If the rumors of KJ Wright are just rumors.. then LB may be just as big of need as CB and it wouldn’t surprise me one bit to see a LB drafted within the first two rounds. Another scenario that should be considered.. Maybe, Dallas can trade a early Mid Rd pick for a proven LB off another team.

 

[cowboyec]

TALENT