When I see Pitts I don’t see a TE, I see T.O

[jterrell]

You left the "in 8 games" part. You also left out the 12 TDs in 8 games part. The dude had more TDs than games played.. I think it's a mistake to compare him to anybody who has come before because I honestly cannot think of another tight end who did in college what Pitts did. The kid's a touchdown scoring machine. He can take it to the house from anywhere on the field and can go over top of guys in the red zone. Not just corners.. ANYBODY you put on him. He's 6'6" with speed, hands and hops. He went for 129 yards on 7 receptions and TD against Bama in the SEC championship. Dude's a baller.. I'm not saying you CAN'T pass on him.. but I am saying you'll probably regret it unless you get a hall of fame defender instead.

Please stop with nonsense hyperbole. It is easily disprovable and distracts form any legit points you might have.
Which was my point about calling him Randy Moss.

Pitts in 2020:
43 receptions 770 yards 12 TD
Pitts in career:
100 receptions 1492 yards 18 TDs.

Jace Amaro in 2013:
106 receptions 1352 yards 7 TDs
Amaro career:
138 receptions 1818 yards 13 TDs

Kyle Pitts is really good. Nasty weapon for any offense.
But he topped 100 yards receiving in a spread offense only 4 times in 24 games played.
He is a really fun watch and his highlights are bananas.
But making him out o be more than he is isn't fair to him or our collective brain cells.

 

[jterrell]

You left out "against the MAC." the mighty Akron Zips.. Miami of Ohio , Toledo, Bowling Green, Every direction of Michigan Eastern, Western, Southern.. Come on man..

Stop saying silly things....
Kyle Pitts has games versus Towson and Tennesee-Martin on his docket.
Randy Moss was going to crush anyone as he did versus West Virginia and Ole Miss.

 

[jterrell]

There is nothing wrong with any of that. He is just not the type of TE used in Dallas scheme. Jarwin is a poor mans version of this guy and he is still expected to block on the line. Pitts could end up Gates/Graham or he could end as Ebron or Engram or he could be an above average journeyman

Jarwin developed over about 3 seasons and was a back up receiving option early on after he made the team. His blocking has finally grown to passable
He was not a guy you tweak the entire offense for.
Pitts is such a guy which is why I believe only a few teams will consider him top 10 and why his name is all the rage on Cowboys boards as a faller.

Pitts has a ton of raw talent and can be a real weapon but teams just need to be adults about what he is is and how to use him.
Wed to a 1 TE scheme? Then Pitts is a slot or outside WR.

Love a lot of movement and h-back stuff? He can be enormous.

 

[CouchCoach]

no, no, no. please don't do this.
this is where it all goes off the rails.

Pitts is a unicorn and he has elite hands.
But he is not Randy Moss...
Randy Moss ran a 4.25 at 6'4". That is a once in a lifetime combo.
Moss was the hardest outside WR cover in the HISTORY of the game with that size/speed combo.

Pitts is a special talent but people always take it too far.
He caught 43 passes last year.
That's not all that great.

I said the Randy Moss of TE's, a bit of a freak. And he has hands like Moss but he is not Moss.

He caught what was thrown to him and played in only 8 games but had those 43 catches for 12 TD's and averaged almost 18 per catch, what TE does that? Toney had 70 catches for 10 TDs in 11 games.

Pitts career depends on which team gets him and how they use him. On the Cowboys, he would 1 of 4 options just with the receivers. He goes to CIN, he becomes a featured receiver. It also matters what else they have. If he's a Cowboy, a headache for the DC with the Cowboys WR corps. But not many teams have a set of WR's like the Cowboys have.

 

[Creeper]

Watching Pitts highlights I see a stud that can make all the catches. However I also see him running free and not having much physicality in his way.

He’s only a split TE/WR IMO, ala TO. You’d never use him as an inline blocker. Guys like DLaw would destroy him at that weight.

So you’re not drafting a TE, you’re drafting a WR. We already have 3 plus Jarwin.

Pitts is going to get jammed and pushed at the line and it is going to greatly take away from this superhuman idea.

I am beginning to agree with this thinking. He is a mismatch when lined up as a TE in the passing game. But in the NFL is he really a mismatch against CBs when split out as a WR?

 

[RonnieT24]

Stop saying silly things....
Kyle Pitts has games versus Towson and Tennesee-Martin on his docket.
Randy Moss was going to crush anyone as he did versus West Virginia and Ole Miss.

Pitts does not have a whole season of such games.. He certainly didn't have any this year.. You're comparing one or two cupcake games a year to 10-11 .. Moss was a man among boys literally at Marshall. He was supposed to show out and he did. But his college numbers heavily reflect that most of his competition was garbage. Some would counter with "well that's not his fault.." But as you probably know, it really WAS his fault.. Being a knucklehead got him booted from FSU and Notre Dame. Being a knucklehead is also the reason the Cowboys were scared to death to draft him, because they already had a boatload of knuckleheads on the roster. It's not denigrating to Randy Moss to say that there are other people on the planet at his talent level. Quit taking it that way.. There has been more than one great athlete created..

 

[RonnieT24]

I am beginning to agree with this thinking. He is a mismatch when lined up as a TE in the passing game. But in the NFL is he really a mismatch against CBs when split out as a WR?

There is a very short list of corners who can go up and contest the ball with a guy who is 6'6" and has a 40 in vertical. So I am going to go out on a limb and say yes.

 

[jterrell]

I said the Randy Moss of TE's, a bit of a freak. And he has hands like Moss but he is not Moss.

He caught what was thrown to him and played in only 8 games but had those 43 catches for 12 TD's and averaged almost 18 per catch, what TE does that? Toney had 70 catches for 10 TDs in 11 games.

Pitts career depends on which team gets him and how they use him. On the Cowboys, he would 1 of 4 options just with the receivers. He goes to CIN, he becomes a featured receiver. It also matters what else they have. If he's a Cowboy, a headache for the DC with the Cowboys WR corps. But not many teams have a set of WR's like the Cowboys have.

I agree with you on all that except the Randy Moss thing.
Again, Randy Moss might be the most naturally talented WR to EVER play the game.
Pitts is really good and deserves to be a top 10 pick but he is not Randy Moss.
Pitts is expected to run a high 4.4 to low 4.5 tomorrow. That athletic profile is basically Jared Cook.
Cook combine stats 6'5" 246, 4.49 40, 41 inch Vert, 123" broad jump.

His production is very solid and he is clearly a red zone freak.
But his stats aren't that rare.
The TDs and his YPC are very impressive but he wasn't playing as an in-line TE for most of those catches and the team passed for 4500 yards and 46 TD.

Like you I think his best fit is where he can be option 1 or 2. An offense who needs a playmaker and will utilize him thusly.
If not he can disappear and he is not the kind of guy who mazes out by blocking or being a decoy.

So why care about this semantic argument??
Because Randy Moss you'd absolutely draft at 10.
That's a true once in a lifetime type athletic profile.
Whereas Kyle Pitts is more like a once in every 4-5 years athletic profile.

The hilarity is all the weird TeamPitts guys on this board both expect 9 other teams to pass him but Dallas to immediately run up there punchdrunk in love.
It really makes very little sense.
All that said the league was stupid last year to let CeeDee fall all the way to 17.
NFL teams can be stupid.
But you can also easily fall in love with an offensive weapon every year too.

 

[jterrell]

Pitts does not have a whole season of such games.. He certainly didn't have any this year.. You're comparing one or two cupcake games a year to 10-11 .. Moss was a man among boys literally at Marshall. He was supposed to show out and he did. But his college numbers heavily reflect that most of his competition was garbage. Some would counter with "well that's not his fault.." But as you probably know, it really WAS his fault.. Being a knucklehead got him booted from FSU and Notre Dame. Being a knucklehead is also the reason the Cowboys were scared to death to draft him, because they already had a boatload of knuckleheads on the roster. It's not denigrating to Randy Moss to say that there are other people on the planet at his talent level. Quit taking it that way.. There has been more than one great athlete created..

Ronnie my man you just aren't making any valid points.
None at all.
Randy Moss inventing 'Mossing' guys at the NFL LEVEL.
Arguing about Marshall opponents is goofy.
Moss was insane at FSU but got kicked out.
He only played 1 season and elevated Marshall to a P5 caliber school. They lost by 3 to an SEC game in the Bowl game and Moss himself dominated an SEC opponent.

Pitts played an equivalent of 2 seasons(COVID shortened plus 3 as a true freshman). He was good but definitely not elite statistically.
I can point you to plenty of guys on the P5 level who were far more productive.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Watching Pitts highlights I see a stud that can make all the catches. However I also see him running free and not having much physicality in his way.

He’s only a split TE/WR IMO, ala TO. You’d never use him as an inline blocker. Guys like DLaw would destroy him at that weight.

So you’re not drafting a TE, you’re drafting a WR. We already have 3 plus Jarwin.

Pitts is going to get jammed and pushed at the line and it is going to greatly take away from this superhuman idea.

he is never going to be a blocking TE, but he can contribute, the thing that impressed me about him was in his Jr. year the knock on him was he can't block and in his Sr. year he committed himself and improved a lot. wasn't great, but decent....

 

[SportsGuru80]

Man Pitts is a matchup nightmare... Get him in a Dallas uniform!

 

[RonnieT24]

Ronnie my man you just aren't making any valid points.
None at all.
Randy Moss inventing 'Mossing' guys at the NFL LEVEL.
Arguing about Marshall opponents is goofy.
Moss was insane at FSU but got kicked out.
He only played 1 season and elevated Marshall to a P5 caliber school. They lost by 3 to an SEC game in the Bowl game and Moss himself dominated an SEC opponent.

Do your homework man.. Moss played two years at Marshall.. they were just 1-AA his sophomore year. And no one knows how "insane" he was at FSU because he never played a down for them. I'm sure he would have been amazing.. but we will never know. His numbers from his sophomore year aren't all that different from his junior year.. indicating a similar level of competition year over year.

Pitts played an equivalent of 2 seasons(COVID shortened plus 3 as a true freshman). He was good but definitely not elite statistically.
I can point you to plenty of guys on the P5 level who were far more productive.

Okay go ahead and do it.. Please list me all the tight ends who averaged a TD every 3.5 catches and 1.5 TDs/game in a season or a TD every 6 catches and .7 TD/game for their careers..

I'll wait..


P.S. Marshall went 12-1 the year after Moss left.. and then 13-0 the year after that.. That 10-3 season with Moss was actually the worst of that graduating class. His QB went on to play 12-13 years in the NFL.. Again.. there has been more than one great athlete created.. Sorry it bothers you that someone might compare to Moss.. but um.. some guys do..

 

[RonnieT24]

he is never going to be a blocking TE, but he can contribute, the thing that impressed me about him was in his Jr. year the knock on him was he can't block and in his Sr. year he committed himself and improved a lot. wasn't great, but decent....

Just a nit but Pitts is only a junior.. We will never know what he could do against college kids as a 22 or 23 year old senior. He's going to be battling grown men in the NFL by then.

 

[jterrell]

Do your homework man.. Moss played two years at Marshall.. they were just 1-AA his sophomore year. And no one knows how "insane" he was at FSU because he never played a down for them. I'm sure he would have been amazing.. but we will never know. His numbers from his sophomore year aren't all that different from his junior year.. indicating a similar level of competition year over year.



Okay go ahead and do it.. Please list me all the tight ends who averaged a TD every 3.5 catches and 1.5 TDs/game in a season or a TD every 6 catches and .7 TD/game for their careers..

I'll wait..


P.S. Marshall went 12-1 the year after Moss left.. and then 13-0 the year after that.. That 10-3 season with Moss was actually the worst of that graduating class. His QB went on to play 12-13 years in the NFL.. Again.. there has been more than one great athlete created.. Sorry it bothers you that someone might compare to Moss.. but um.. some guys do..

good lord dude...
Randy was named one of the 50 greatest High School players of all-time by Parade Magazine.

I didn't count his I-AA stats at all... because they weren't D1 and those are video game numbers for him.
It doesn't help your point... but I'll gladly paste here....
In 1996, he set the NCAA Division I-AA records for the most games with a touchdown catch in a season (14), most consecutive games with a touchdown catch (13), most touchdown passes caught in a season (28 – tying Jerry Rice's 1984 record), and most receiving yards gained by a freshman in a season (1,709 on 78 catches), a record which still stands. Moss was also the leading kickoff returner in Division I-AA on the season, with 612 total yards and a 34.0 yard average. The 1996 Marshall Thundering Herd went undefeated and won the Division I-AA title, with Moss having four touchdown receptions in the 1996 NCAA Division I-AA Football Championship Game. It was Marshall's last season before moving to Division I-A.


We know he tore it up at FSU because plenty of people told us he was FAR better than Peter Warrick during his forced redshirt season. PETER WARRICK TOLD US THAT.

In his one game versus SEC competition he had 6 receptions for 173 yards and a TD.

Again you are making zero points here.
Kyle Pitts is a very good player. He has proven 0 times to be a truly great player.
He was a 4 star HS kid, Moss was of course 5.
He was a redshirt that played the max 3 games but didn't do much...
Moss was a forced redshirt who was considered the best WR on the football team.

Moss set records each of his collegiate seasons. Some he still holds to this day.
Kyle Pitts scored 12 TDs in 8 games as his big claim to fame.

These dudes aren't in the same universe.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Just a nit but Pitts is only a junior.. We will never know what he could do against college kids as a 22 or 23 year old senior. He's going to be battling grown men in the NFL by then.

my bad....should have said sophmore vs. jr....thanks for the correction.....they say he loves football and that's big...the passion, leads to dedication and leads to greatness...

 

[RonnieT24]

good lord dude...
Randy was named one of the 50 greatest High School players of all-time by Parade Magazine.

I didn't count his I-AA stats at all... because they weren't D1 and those are video game numbers for him.
It doesn't help your point... but I'll gladly paste here....
In 1996, he set the NCAA Division I-AA records for the most games with a touchdown catch in a season (14), most consecutive games with a touchdown catch (13), most touchdown passes caught in a season (28 – tying Jerry Rice's 1984 record), and most receiving yards gained by a freshman in a season (1,709 on 78 catches), a record which still stands. Moss was also the leading kickoff returner in Division I-AA on the season, with 612 total yards and a 34.0 yard average. The 1996 Marshall Thundering Herd went undefeated and won the Division I-AA title, with Moss having four touchdown receptions in the 1996 NCAA Division I-AA Football Championship Game. It was Marshall's last season before moving to Division I-A.


We know he tore it up at FSU because plenty of people told us he was FAR better than Peter Warrick during his forced redshirt season. PETER WARRICK TOLD US THAT.

In his one game versus SEC competition he had 6 receptions for 173 yards and a TD.

Again you are making zero points here.
Kyle Pitts is a very good player. He has proven 0 times to be a truly great player.
He was a 4 star HS kid, Moss was of course 5.
He was a redshirt that played the max 3 games but didn't do much...
Moss was a forced redshirt who was considered the best WR on the football team.

Moss set records each of his collegiate seasons. Some he still holds to this day.
Kyle Pitts scored 12 TDs in 8 games as his big claim to fame.

These dudes aren't in the same universe.

Sorry that comparing anyone to Moss causes you to lose your mind. It is what it is.. Pitts played at Florida which is a couple of notches up from 1-AA. I would not expect any player to do as a redshirt freshman against actual SEC competition what Moss did to East South Central Northern Michigan and the like. Moss was an FCS kid (and one of the best ever) playing against 1-AA kids. Wasn't a fair fight. I have little doubt that there is a long list of guys who could have lit it up at Marshall at a similar rate under those circumstances. Kyle Pitts is one of them.. You don't like it? Not my problem.. Pitts is a great player who will be a tremendous pro if he gets into the right situation.. and if he lands in the wrong situation he will look a lot like Moss did in Oakland.. Because, you know, a receiver can't throw himself the ball.

 

[rambo2]

A 260 pound TO?

 

[JBond]

Watching Pitts highlights I see a stud that can make all the catches. However I also see him running free and not having much physicality in his way.

He’s only a split TE/WR IMO, ala TO. You’d never use him as an inline blocker. Guys like DLaw would destroy him at that weight.

So you’re not drafting a TE, you’re drafting a WR. We already have 3 plus Jarwin.

Pitts is going to get jammed and pushed at the line and it is going to greatly take away from this superhuman idea.

Can we get a 3rd for Gallup?

 

[rambo2]

good lord dude...
Randy was named one of the 50 greatest High School players of all-time by Parade Magazine.

I didn't count his I-AA stats at all... because they weren't D1 and those are video game numbers for him.
It doesn't help your point... but I'll gladly paste here....
In 1996, he set the NCAA Division I-AA records for the most games with a touchdown catch in a season (14), most consecutive games with a touchdown catch (13), most touchdown passes caught in a season (28 – tying Jerry Rice's 1984 record), and most receiving yards gained by a freshman in a season (1,709 on 78 catches), a record which still stands. Moss was also the leading kickoff returner in Division I-AA on the season, with 612 total yards and a 34.0 yard average. The 1996 Marshall Thundering Herd went undefeated and won the Division I-AA title, with Moss having four touchdown receptions in the 1996 NCAA Division I-AA Football Championship Game. It was Marshall's last season before moving to Division I-A.


We know he tore it up at FSU because plenty of people told us he was FAR better than Peter Warrick during his forced redshirt season. PETER WARRICK TOLD US THAT.

In his one game versus SEC competition he had 6 receptions for 173 yards and a TD.

Again you are making zero points here.
Kyle Pitts is a very good player. He has proven 0 times to be a truly great player.
He was a 4 star HS kid, Moss was of course 5.
He was a redshirt that played the max 3 games but didn't do much...
Moss was a forced redshirt who was considered the best WR on the football team.

Moss set records each of his collegiate seasons. Some he still holds to this day.
Kyle Pitts scored 12 TDs in 8 games as his big claim to fame.

These dudes aren't in the same universe.

Pitts is a top 5 talent. He is a 260 pound monster.

 

[Gaede]

If I can draft TO at 10, I would definitely do that.

TO was an incredible player.