What everyone think about this mock

[ABQCOWBOY]

You're clearly speculating on what players like Samuel Jr who by the way was one of the players who literally quit on FSU and Farley who is coming off an injury plus he sat out last year will be. In this league you have to have a duo of top notch corners or else the OC's will just pick on the other once he realized he can't attack the other. I like Newsome alot myself because he provides very skilled CB traits including leading CFB in lowest deep ball percentage. But to totally try to dismiss Surtain as not being as good or some type of overhype athlete because of his father and Bama is ridiculous. He's proven to be one of the top CB's not only in this draft but if I'm not mistaken did he not win the Thorpe award as the best DB in all of college football last year? I get that you can't have a steak on every plate but if you're picking in the top 10 you best believe who ever you pick better be the best at their position and he's clearly that.

And what is it you and everybody else is doing here? What piece of info do you have that says Surtain is that much better? For the record, Samuels didn't quit on FSU. He basically opted out, like many, many other players have done this year. In this league, you have to have that? Is that so? See, this is what gets you in trouble as an organization. First of all, we could have already had that had we just paid Jones but we didn't. Instead, we let him walk for nothing and here we are, talking about wasting yet another top 10 pick on a position that may or may not provide value. You want to spend on a CB at 10 overall when you can get a Corner later in the draft that will fit just as well, if not better.

Lets do this. You think Surtain is the best CB in this draft why?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The problem in all that there are not any safeties or DL worthy of taking at the 10th spot so while yes you need a ball hawking safety that does not mean you simply just go select a name at 10 because he's been listed as a position of need. There are some people that say the Grant kid at UCF is the best FS in this draft ahead of the kid from TCU after his performance at the senior bowl. But at this point I just don't see how people can really say take any of these FS before you take Surtain II at 10.

Interesting because that seems to be exactly what you are suggesting with Surtain.

 

[Typhus]

Don’t get me wrong, I’d prefer a trade down and take him but if he’s a long term FS starter and is worth the 17th then he’s worth the 10th

Like the player, but have a hard time believing they take a FS at 10.

 

[visionary]

Like the player, but have a hard time believing they take a FS at 10.

all depends on our scouts. My only point was, why is it not a reach if we take Horn (a player ranked in rd 2 as recently as last month) but a reach to take Barmore or Moehrig at 10

Its because people tend to value CB more and to me DL and FS are more important esp in Quinn’s defense

 

[Typhus]

all depends on our scouts. My only point was, why is it not a reach if we take Horn (a player ranked in rd 2 as recently as last month) but a reach to take Barmore or Moehrig at 10

Its because people tend to value CB more and to me DL and FS are more important esp in Quinn’s defense

Farley dropping with his bad meds, Horn now the CB2, still think there is supreme value on the board at 44, I like some of the nice DL still sitting there.. OL as well.

 

[visionary]

Farley dropping with his bad meds, Horn now the CB2, still think there is supreme value on the board at 44, I like some of the nice DL still sitting there.. OL as well.

I agree and this is why a trade down would be the best option

 

[SixFiveCowboy]

And what is it you and everybody else is doing here? What piece of info do you have that says Surtain is that much better? For the record, Samuels didn't quit on FSU. He basically opted out, like many, many other players have done this year. In this league, you have to have that? Is that so? See, this is what gets you in trouble as an organization. First of all, we could have already had that had we just paid Jones but we didn't. Instead, we let him walk for nothing and here we are, talking about wasting yet another top 10 pick on a position that may or may not provide value. You want to spend on a CB at 10 overall when you can get a Corner later in the draft that will fit just as well, if not better.

Lets do this. You think Surtain is the best CB in this draft why?

I've explained it to you already there isn't a box that Surtain doesn't check, he's clearly rated the best defensive back in this draft class by several scouts and by his play on the field if that doesn't clarify it for you then I don't get your perspective here. You talking about Jones he wanted to leave he wanted a major payday we couldn't afford that doesn't mean we don't draft another highly rated CB because of that. That's not sound logic because even if you wait to draft one later and he performs well you don't think he's going to be seeking big money when his contract up. Which by the way if you draft one later you don't have the option of that extra 5th year you'll have to pay up sooner. But it's obvious you clearly are not in Surtain's corner on this. We'll just have to agree to disagree

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I've explained it to you already there isn't a box that Surtain doesn't check, he's clearly rated the best defensive back in this draft class by several scouts and by his play on the field if that doesn't clarify it for you then I don't get your perspective here. You talking about Jones he wanted to leave he wanted a major payday we couldn't afford that doesn't mean we don't draft another highly rated CB because of that. That's not sound logic because even if you wait to draft one later and he performs well you don't think he's going to be seeking big money when his contract up. Which by the way if you draft one later you don't have the option of that extra 5th year you'll have to pay up sooner. But it's obvious you clearly are not in Surtain's corner on this. We'll just have to agree to disagree

lol... if you had explained it, I wouldn't be asking the question. I can tick off exactly why I don't value Surtain at 10, can you tell me, other then just talking points like, "highest rated CB" in the draft stuff? It is pretty clear that you don't get it. That's the point, you don't understand. So I'm specifically asking you why he is that guy. What do you see in his game that makes him a better fit?

So, you can agree to whatever you want. I do not, I don't agree to disagree because I don't believe you know what you are talking about. So go ahead, show me what you know and we can go from there. If not, then I guess you can agree to walk away but I don't agree with any of what you are saying at this point.

 

[SixFiveCowboy]

lol... if you had explained it, I wouldn't be asking the question. I can tick off exactly why I don't value Surtain at 10, can you tell me, other then just talking points like, "highest rated CB" in the draft stuff? It is pretty clear that you don't get it. That's the point, you don't understand. So I'm specifically asking you why he is that guy. What do you see in his game that makes him a better fit?

So, you can agree to whatever you want. I do not, I don't agree to disagree because I don't believe you know what you are talking about. So go ahead, show me what you know and we can go from there. If not, then I guess you can agree to walk away but I don't agree with any of what you are saying at this point.

Well that's your prerogative bro not here to argue with you if you refuse to comprehend what's being said to you. Feel free to move on to the next thread no sweat off my back lol!!! I can assure you there are more people in the front offices of the league who does agree with what I'm saying. As far as proving to you what I know, it's clear you're not worth the time of going into it if you clearly don't see that man's skill set based on what he's shown to the world thus far with his play. So on that note have a great day.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well that's your prerogative bro not here to argue with you if you refuse to comprehend what's being said to you. Feel free to move on to the next thread no sweat off my back lol!!! I can assure you there are more people in the front offices of the league who does agree with what I'm saying. As far as proving to you what I know, it's clear you're not worth the time of going into it if you clearly don't see that man's skill set based on what he's shown to the world thus far with his play. So on that note have a great day.

LOL.... Comprehend what? You haven't said anything. The fact that you say that there are more people in front offices that agree with you tells me that you don't get it. First of all, you speak of this as if all teams evaluate players in a static environment. Sure, there is an overall evaluation but after that, each team breaks down players and then evaluates them, according to their own specific scheme requirements and their own needs. So you might have a player who grades out a little ahead of another player but that guy may not be what a specific scheme needs. Example, you have a big Power I back who is evaluated as the best back in the draft but the team with a pick might not run a power running game. They may run a trapping, spread run offense that has little use for a power back, except in short yardage situations. So while Back A might be the highest rated guy at the position, he's not a very highly rated back for the team who is looking for a Running Back. See where I'm going here? You can't just say things like, "most GMs agree with me." That statement, alone, is a bunch of BS. I mean, you have to know this right?

So, how does that example effect our situation? This is why I asked you what you see in Surtain that leads you to believe that he is a better fit. He isn't a better fit for our scheme. You are thinking linier here. We don't need deep speed at CB. That is not what our scheme calls for out of the position. We need Corners who can play physical coverage. They need to have excellent agility, burst, ball skills and they need to be able to body up. These corners are going to play a lot of press, a lot of bump and run stuff. Our Corners are going to have to be able to jam off the line and really play hardnosed physical coverage. They will need to be able to play a lot of Safety elements as well because one of them could very well be asked to come on the blitz and get pressure. What they don't need to be is really fast because they are not going to be asked to cover all over the field. This is why you need an all world FS. You must have that guy at FS. So the traditional asset that pushes CB prospects up in the draft is not needed in this scheme. That is why the guy that might be evaluated as the "top corner" in a given draft, might not be the best fit for us. This scheme actually looks for traits in a CB that are not valued as highly in todays game. That should theoretically push that Corner down in the draft. Do you get it?

 

[SixFiveCowboy]

LOL.... Comprehend what? You haven't said anything. The fact that you say that there are more people in front offices that agree with you tells me that you don't get it. First of all, you speak of this as if all teams evaluate players in a static environment. Sure, there is an overall evaluation but after that, each team breaks down players and then evaluates them, according to their own specific scheme requirements and their own needs. So you might have a player who grades out a little ahead of another player but that guy may not be what a specific scheme needs. Example, you have a big Power I back who is evaluated as the best back in the draft but the team with a pick might not run a power running game. They may run a trapping, spread run offense that has little use for a power back, except in short yardage situations. So while Back A might be the highest rated guy at the position, he's not a very highly rated back for the team who is looking for a Running Back. See where I'm going here? You can't just say things like, "most GMs agree with me." That statement, alone, is a bunch of BS. I mean, you have to know this right?

So, how does that example effect our situation? This is why I asked you what you see in Surtain that leads you to believe that he is a better fit. He isn't a better fit for our scheme. You are thinking linier here. We don't need deep speed at CB. That is not what our scheme calls for out of the position. We need Corners who can play physical coverage. They need to have excellent agility, burst, ball skills and they need to be able to body up. These corners are going to play a lot of press, a lot of bump and run stuff. Our Corners are going to have to be able to jam off the line and really play hardnosed physical coverage. They will need to be able to play a lot of Safety elements as well because one of them could very well be asked to come on the blitz and get pressure. What they don't need to be is really fast because they are not going to be asked to cover all over the field. This is why you need an all world FS. You must have that guy at FS. So the traditional asset that pushes CB prospects up in the draft is not needed in this scheme. That is why the guy that might be evaluated as the "top corner" in a given draft, might not be the best fit for us. This scheme actually looks for traits in a CB that are not valued as highly in todays game. That should theoretically push that Corner down in the draft. Do you get it?

Not sure where you're getting your information but everything you described Surtain has done at Alabama so I'll just leave this as food for thought. Oh and by the way please stop with the all world FS talk there isn't a sure fire one in this draft and it's well documented that the kid from TCU isn't worthy of a pick higher than 20.

When asked to name the top defensive player, NFL.com’s Marc Ross said:

Most of the top defensive players in this draft class come with some glaring concerns. But not Patrick Surtain II. He checks all the boxes of a potential perennial Pro Bowler on and off the field: pedigree, physical talent, production and intelligence, just to name a few. It’s really hard to identify a legitimate flaw in his game, which sets the Alabama cornerback apart from the rest of the field.

Brian Baldinger also said:

I believe Patrick Surtain II is the best defensive player going into the draft. He has a great deal of experience after playing three years at ‘Bama against the best competition every Saturday. Not to mention, he practiced daily against a fleet of top receivers (DeVonta Smith and Jaylen Waddle in this draft class, as well as 2020 first-rounders Henry Ruggs III and Jerry Jeudy), honing both his man-to-man skills and zone principals. Surtain was coached by his father, who had his own 11-year NFL career, before playing under the best defensive back coach in the country in Nick Saban. That’s why he is clean, skilled and ready to immediately upgrade an NFL team’s secondary on Day 1.


Here don't believe me check it out for yourself.

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/202...some-safeties-but-they-could-still-draft-more

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Not sure where you're getting your information but everything you described Surtain has done at Alabama so I'll just leave this as food for thought. Oh and by the way please stop with the all world FS talk there isn't a sure fire one in this draft and it's well documented that the kid from TCU isn't worthy of a pick higher than 20.

When asked to name the top defensive player, NFL.com’s Marc Ross said:

Most of the top defensive players in this draft class come with some glaring concerns. But not Patrick Surtain II. He checks all the boxes of a potential perennial Pro Bowler on and off the field: pedigree, physical talent, production and intelligence, just to name a few. It’s really hard to identify a legitimate flaw in his game, which sets the Alabama cornerback apart from the rest of the field.

Brian Baldinger also said:

I believe Patrick Surtain II is the best defensive player going into the draft. He has a great deal of experience after playing three years at ‘Bama against the best competition every Saturday. Not to mention, he practiced daily against a fleet of top receivers (DeVonta Smith and Jaylen Waddle in this draft class, as well as 2020 first-rounders Henry Ruggs III and Jerry Jeudy), honing both his man-to-man skills and zone principals. Surtain was coached by his father, who had his own 11-year NFL career, before playing under the best defensive back coach in the country in Nick Saban. That’s why he is clean, skilled and ready to immediately upgrade an NFL team’s secondary on Day 1.


Here don't believe me check it out for yourself.

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/202...some-safeties-but-they-could-still-draft-more

Brain Baldinger got fired from this organization for his opinions on players.

Marc Ross also said that Mayfield was the best QB in the class of 2018. How did that work out?

So big deal, Baldinger and Ross support Surtain, that actually means zero in terms of my point. This is about scheme. As I said before, you can have a player that NFL personnel guys rate as best at a given position but that player may not fit a specific team because of scheme.

The 20 pick, worthy or not on the TCU Safety and all the rest on Surtain mean nothing. So these guys like him. That's fine, there are better options out there for our scheme. I don't like either at 10.

 

[Doomsday101]

I like the 1st, 2nd pick I would rather go with DT Dixon whom they have going to NE a couple of picks later.