Horn in our System

[darthseinfeld]

People are really starting to over think these two players. And alot of what's coming out is bs.

 

[pacy]

You made the oversimplified claim. Don’t demur when you’re asked for specifics.

Well, it would be like telling you that fire is hot. Don't touch it.

 

[darthseinfeld]

The front 7 of Alabama helped Surtain way more then the front 7 on Horns team.

Surtains front 7 wasn't any better than Humphrey's

 

[pacy]

Surtains front 7 wasn't any better than Humphrey's

But better than Horns.

 

[Teague31]

Horn would be best in a pure man press defense. That’s not what Quinn runs

 

[darthseinfeld]

Feel free to detail how much and how you know that.

When you're done with that exercise please inform everyone your thoughts on what the perfect balance of sucky surrounding talent is to judge whether an individual is benefiting or not?

Diggs had the same talent in front of him at Bama and outplayed ever 1st round CB last year by a wide margin. His QB rating against was 85, and every first round CB was over 100

 

[3rdEyewarrior]

Quinn's cover 3 is press, then bail. Both Corners have the ability and length to be good press corners, think Horn actually has a little better quickness to react playing zone. I think both corners are on the same level, think Surtain might be maxed out, where Horn has a bigger upside potential. Surtain is safe, Horn you is more of a long-term projection.

I’d rather have fairly, but I’d settle for horn over surtain. I see him as a guy who won’t get better. His dad gave him a technique advantage over college guys. He has no athleticism to rely on. 4.44 pro translates to 4.54 or slower at the combine. Plus do t ignore the fact that horn and fairly both have longer arms.

 

[Malhavoc]

The thought that Surtain can’t get better is insane.

 

[Aven8]

Horn is very similar to Diggs. Grabby, and cocky. I will say that Diggs is very good at having a short memory.

 

[Gaede]

The thought that Surtain can’t get better is insane.

Yeah I don't get that. Dude is ahead of the game. Why would his progression suddenly stop in the pros?!

 

[mardwin]

I would also say that at least Peters was a ballhawk. That's not been the case with Horn.

Horn is a shutdown corner, a Revis like that locks on the receiver. Surtain has far better ball skills, either would be the right choice.

 

[Cowboyny]

I’d rather have fairly, but I’d settle for horn over surtain. I see him as a guy who won’t get better. His dad gave him a technique advantage over college guys. He has no athleticism to rely on. 4.44 pro translates to 4.54 or slower at the combine. Plus do t ignore the fact that horn and fairly both have longer arms.

I prefer Farley pre-injury as well. Clearly, the best athlete at the position. Surtain will be good day 1, just don't see much upside, this might be the best he gets. Horn still needs polish and learn who to play less grabby, if he can clean up his technique, could be the better player down the line. However, it's more of a projection, which makes him more risky.

 

[beware_d-ware]

The Hawk 3 defense plays more like man to man on the boundary, so Horn would be fine here. His size and aggression fit the scheme really well.

 

[Cowboyny]

The Hawk 3 defense plays more like man to man on the boundary, so Horn would be fine here. His size and aggression fit the scheme really well.

Both players fit the cover 3 well. It comes down to, if you want the safer player or the more riskier one with higher upside to me.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Surtains front 7 wasn't any better than Humphrey's

Alabama led the SEC in sacks. South Carolina had the least.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Feel free to detail how much and how you know that.

When you're done with that exercise please inform everyone your thoughts on what the perfect balance of sucky surrounding talent is to judge whether an individual is benefiting or not?

This is a football forum. We shouldn't have to explain to you why the relative talent level at Alabama is significantly higher than South Carolina.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Alabama led the SEC in sacks. South Carolina had the least.

Doesnt mean that that is going to hurt Surtain in the pro's. It's the same front 7 Diggs had in 2019, and his 2020 statistics were significant better than all the CB's that went ahead of him. That point wasnt really intended to involve Horn, whom I think is an excellent prospect and I would happy to have at 10. Its more about putting too much into Surtains supporting class as far knocking him as a prospect. Here is Diggs performance last year Vs. The first round CB class

Trevon Diggs:

54.8 % 85.8 rating. 5 TD's 3 INT's


Jeffery Okudah:

77.4% comp. 118 rating. 2 TD's. 1 INT

CJ Henderson:

64.7% comp. 110.2 rating. 4 TD's 1 INT

AJ Terrell:

67% comp. 109.6 rating. 6 TD's 1 INT

Damon Arnett: note 32 targets

78.1% comp 106.9 rating 0 TD's 0 INTs

Noah Igbinoghene: note 25 targets

56% comp. 137.5 rating. 3 TDs. 0 INT's

Jeff Gladney:

70% comp. 118 rating. 6 TDs. 0 INTs

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Doesnt mean that that is going to hurt Surtain in the pro's. It's the same front 7 Diggs had in 2019, and his 2020 statistics were significant better than all the CB's that went ahead of him. That point wasnt really intended to involve Horn, whom I think is an excellent prospect. Its more about putting too much into Surtains supporting class as far knocking him as a prospect. Here is Diggs performance last year Vs. The first round CB class

Trevon Diggs:

54.8 % 85.8 rating. 5 TD's 3 INT's


Jeffery Okudah:

77.4% comp. 118 rating. 2 TD's. 1 INT

CJ Henderson:

64.7% comp. 110.2 rating. 4 TD's 1 INT

AJ Terrell:

67% comp. 109.6 rating. 6 TD's 1 INT

Damon Arnett: note 32 targets

78.1% comp 106.9 rating 0 TD's 0 INTs

Noah Igbinoghene: note 25 targets

56% comp. 137.5 rating. 3 TDs. 0 INT's

Jeff Gladney:

70% comp. 118 rating. 6 TDs. 0 INTs

I fail to see what point you're making.

Less pass rush means you have to cover longer that you can't cheat on underneath routes and all other kinds of issues in terms of coverage. It is what it is.

Moreso Horn lined up over the opponent's best receiver and followed him around the formation. Surtain played right corner.

Surtain is also not a plus athlete. his recovery speed and change of direction are mediocre. Horn is one.

Surtain is better in his footwork, handwork, and tackling technique. Horn is more proven across the formation and has better instincts. I see him peel off and drive on throws to other receivers. Surtain doesn't do that.

Diggs did too fwiw.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Is this post asking me the question?

LOL

 

[darthseinfeld]

I fail to see what point you're making.

Less pass rush means you have to cover longer that you can't cheat on underneath routes and all other kinds of issues in terms of coverage. It is what it is.

Moreso Horn lined up over the opponent's best receiver and followed him around the formation. Surtain played right corner.

Surtain is also not a plus athlete. his recovery speed and change of direction are mediocre. Horn is one.

Surtain is better in his footwork, handwork, and tackling technique. Horn is more proven across the formation and has better instincts. I see him peel off and drive on throws to other receivers. Surtain doesn't do that.

Diggs did too fwiw.

The point I was making you cant assume that a player that played with a top front 7 will struggle in the pro's. Bama CB's recently have thrived transitioning to the NFL. It want a comparative between Horn and Surtain. The point I made that you responded to was that Surtains front 7 wasn't any better than Humphreys when he was in Alabama