Watching other teams run block today was depressing

[RonnieT24]

I saw some of this too. But I was also watching TEs in the running game and it is amazing how TEs on some teams actually help create running lanes for the RBs. Dallas does not have a TE who can block. I am wondering if losing Jarwin hurt. I never thought he was much of a run blocker but I wasn't really paying that much attention to him.

Oh he may be the worst blocking TE on the team. He was the one who whiffed on the option play against Tampa that got Zeke dropped for a loss on 3rd and goal. Sprinkle was supposed to be a blocking TE but I don't think he has even been active lately. We absolutely do not have a good blocking TE that has been active on game day in some time. We also only have one WR who is a good downfield blocker and that's Brown. The rest are pretty terrible at it. On Pollard's 31 yard run on the wildcat play Gallup blocked his man for 2 Mississippi's and then let him go.. If he holds him to 3 Mississippi's that's a touchdown. When Zeke broke off is 47 yarder against Carolina it was him against 3 DBs for 30 yards.. Not one of our receivers hustled back to run interference the way Dez and TWill used to. It's absolutely maddening. And the main reason we don't have any more house call runs or catch and runs any more.. We can't block.

 

[blueblood70]

Man it made sad as I watched multiple teams open up gaping holes for their backs down after down. It also made me realize that our line is nowhere near as good as its reputation. Well let me qualify that.. Our line cannot execute Kellen Moore's run plays as good as its reputation. What I notice about other teams is that they tend to double team at the point of attack. The Packers did it to Aaron Donald a dozen times when they needed to run the ball. Same with the Bucs when they were closing out the game against the Colts.. And the Broncos against the Chargers.. Admittedly I didn't study it as intently as I do our schemes, but I saw precious little of the slide step reach blocking we feature in our running attack. Maybe Moore thinks our guys are more athletic than they are.. but we repeatedly allow penetration when we run this scheme. Yes we can gash teams with sorry *** fronts with it but against even decent fronts our linemen get knocked into the backfield more often than not. Against good fronts we have no chance whatsoever to run the ball. I also noticed that teams stayed committed to the run even when it wasn't yielding big yards. Dillon and Jones were averaging just over 3 ypc against the Rams but they kept hammering at it all game long. They never surrendered the way we do. And they have Aaron Freaking Rodgers at QB.. Oh and that guy with the Bucs is an okay QB too.. yet they also kept pounding the run even when it was getting them under 4 ypc until late in the game. Yes WE have turned completely skittish about running the ball and shift into 5 wide empty backfield at the drop of a hat. I love Dak Prescott as much as anyone but it's absolutely brain dead that we keep asking him to do what even teams with Hall of Fame QBs don't ask of them.. win throwing it 75-80% of the time without even a hint of a rushing attack. What the hell is wrong with our offensive coordinator that he can't see this?

didnt this place not want to keep hammering into wall all game like garett used to just to get the" volume" run yards ??

theres fine line to staying with it too long and trying something else...IE taking what the defense is giving you..

we do abandon the run far too early but also need to pass to back that stacking the box blueprint they've been incorporating against us since the bye..this is crucial to getting some balance back to the offense..

 

[RonnieT24]

we were doing this during that 6 game win streak and got away from it..its odd isnt it..Moore reverted back to old moore and became pass happy and also i believe daks checking out of run plays far too often etc etc..we have been making changes along the line all year trying to find the best combo and this needs to settle down and get back to the basics..

If this is true then it absolutely needs to stop. Somebody needs to get in his face and tell him that we want to establish the run and sometimes even if they put all 11 guys on the line we need to run it to send a message. The reason I don't think it happens that much is the amount of time we break the huddle in 5 wide empty backfield. When we do that the only check would be out of pass into run.. What QB is going to do that? In any case, it's the job of the OC to make sure the offense operates at peak efficiency and right now it's not. So he needs to change something..

 

[Vtwin]

we were doing this during that 6 game win streak and got away from it..its odd isnt it..Moore reverted back to old moore and became pass happy and also i believe daks checking out of run plays far too often etc etc..we have been making changes along the line all year trying to find the best combo and this needs to settle down and get back to the basics..

It's possible, if not probable that teams looked at the tape from that six game win streak and countered.

It's up to Dak and Moore to counter the counter.

A story as old as football itself.

 

[RonnieT24]

It's possible, if not probable that teams looked at the tape from that six game win streak and countered.

It's up to Dak and Moore to counter the counter.

A story as old as football itself.

Teams are definitely getting into the backfield on us with startling regularity whether it be pass plays or run plays. That tells me the protections are screwed up and that teams have scouted us and know where the gaps will be once we snap the ball. I also see a TON of times when the backside end/OLB crashes down and blows up run plays in the backfield. Usually because we leave him unblocked.. You can get away with that if you are running a quick hitter or a wide play away from him but if you are running our usual delay up the middle he's going to destroy that play every time. We have got to acknowledge that our lines are not holding up as long as we hoped so we need to run less slow developing run plays and more quick hitters and traps. And would it kill us to run a nice toss sweep with both guards leading the back around the outside?

 

[Cmac]

Man it made sad as I watched multiple teams open up gaping holes for their backs down after down. It also made me realize that our line is nowhere near as good as its reputation. Well let me qualify that.. Our line cannot execute Kellen Moore's run plays as good as its reputation. What I notice about other teams is that they tend to double team at the point of attack. The Packers did it to Aaron Donald a dozen times when they needed to run the ball. Same with the Bucs when they were closing out the game against the Colts.. And the Broncos against the Chargers.. Admittedly I didn't study it as intently as I do our schemes, but I saw precious little of the slide step reach blocking we feature in our running attack. Maybe Moore thinks our guys are more athletic than they are.. but we repeatedly allow penetration when we run this scheme. Yes we can gash teams with sorry *** fronts with it but against even decent fronts our linemen get knocked into the backfield more often than not. Against good fronts we have no chance whatsoever to run the ball. I also noticed that teams stayed committed to the run even when it wasn't yielding big yards. Dillon and Jones were averaging just over 3 ypc against the Rams but they kept hammering at it all game long. They never surrendered the way we do. And they have Aaron Freaking Rodgers at QB.. Oh and that guy with the Bucs is an okay QB too.. yet they also kept pounding the run even when it was getting them under 4 ypc until late in the game. Yes WE have turned completely skittish about running the ball and shift into 5 wide empty backfield at the drop of a hat. I love Dak Prescott as much as anyone but it's absolutely brain dead that we keep asking him to do what even teams with Hall of Fame QBs don't ask of them.. win throwing it 75-80% of the time without even a hint of a rushing attack. What the hell is wrong with our offensive coordinator that he can't see this?

What's wrong with our offensive coordinator?.......He's waiting/hoping for Oklahoma to call, but he's forgetting they're headed to the SEC soon.

 

[khiladi]

The numbers being tracked in October when Dallas was playing its best ball:

Dallas is averaging 6.1 yards per carry against light boxes, per Tru Media, and 5.9 per carry on first down. A league-best 58.8% of those carries have gone for five yards or more. Sit back and this offensive line and run game will eat you alive. Dak is also perfectly content to rip off short completions to his underneath targets. He's 97 of 122 for 812 yards, six touchdowns and just one interception on throws inside of 10 yards, with the league's sixth-best passer rating and second-best EPA per pass average on those plays.

But as soon as defenses shift into man coverage, Dak is SLAYING them. His numbers are outrageous. On throws against Cover-1, Prescott is 15 of 21 for 260 yards, seven touchdowns and zero interceptions. That's a 152.8 passer rating, which is easily the best in the league. And he is absolutely attacking with these throws, averaging 11.5 air yards per attempt, compared with 6.68 against all other coverages.

When you have CeeDee Lamb and Amari Cooper to roast man-to-man defenses, along with Dalton Schultz and Blake Jarwin over the middle, why not just let it rip? When Dallas gets Michael Gallup (the team's best perimeter ball-winner on downfield throws) back in the lineup, look out for even more of this.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-how-the-nfls-top-qbs-are-dominating-in-2021/

I mean I don’t know how this needs to be emphasized. If teams don’t play 8 in the box, your RBs are netting close to 6 yards per carry. That’s been the difference between Moore and Linehan in reality, in that the former just has Dak taking the deep shots against these defenses, meaning it took this guy four years and top-tier WRs to do it. When Dak faced or faces a zone look, he just calls run and either Zeke or Pollard would and are massacring the defensive front when the OL is completely 100%.

It also doesn’t take a genius to understand why these QBR numbers in man coverage shot up significantly when Amari came on board and he basically yelled at Dak in the Eagles game to toss him the ball against 1 CB with no safety over the top. Because nobody can guard him 1 on 1, if the blocking up front is even somewhat decent. And with the addition of Lamb, it makes it even worse for defenses.

When you talk about elite QBs on the other hand, like Herbert in year 2, they aren’t defending them like they are Dak. That’s why you don’t give any real significance to their ‘bad games’ when they are off, because they don’t have the personnel like Dallas around the QBs, and their offenses are built on their arms and their ability to make tight throws.

Herbert is making a second-year leap to superstardom, and he's doing it by routinely making some of the most difficult throws in all of football. He has a league-high 24 completions of 15 or more yards on throws outside the numbers, which means he's hitting the most hard-to-access spots on the field with more regularity than anybody in the game.

 

[khiladi]

Philbin didn’t build this line. Our top three starters, two of them all-pro, were already here. Collins was having an all-pro year in 2019. This whole OL and RB schemes was built on Callahan’s work.

And let’s not act like Dak hasn’t gotten decent blocking. Just because it wasn’t elite, the last three games, doesn’t mean it was bad or like what elite QBs have regularly.

His whole career had been built on drinking tea behind the OL.

 

[glimmerman]

Everything but blaming the horrid Zeke. You are predictable and small minded. Even our head coach admits that Zeke isn't himself.

Zeke is either injured or he sucks. And despite Oline issues, which there are, Pollard continues to average a yard more per carry in most cases.

There is nothing wrong with our OC other than the fact that he continues to waste carries on a guy that is either over the hill or injured.

No one is asking Dak to win throwing 80% of the time. Its just when Zeke sucks so bad we have to.

You continue to prove you know nothing about football and your fail miserably to analyze your hero Zeke.

Elliot is fighting through a knee he had for a while now. When healthy he is the beast. He will be the beast we need in playoffs. We also have to realize our line is getting blitzed almost every down. They seem to bring the house every play. I think with Cooper and Lamb back if they bring the house then Dak should have open receivers all day. If he hits them we will be running it by the 4th quarter.

 

[blueblood70]

If this is true then it absolutely needs to stop. Somebody needs to get in his face and tell him that we want to establish the run and sometimes even if they put all 11 guys on the line we need to run it to send a message. The reason I don't think it happens that much is the amount of time we break the huddle in 5 wide empty backfield. When we do that the only check would be out of pass into run.. What QB is going to do that? In any case, it's the job of the OC to make sure the offense operates at peak efficiency and right now it's not. So he needs to change something..

well against TB they admitted to dak checking out of at least 12 run plays and he was lauded for it, now its an issue?

i mean all year ive reads 100s of replies to not run it into wall for 2-3 yards and cloud of dust now it's an issue?

OI get your point we need to run it better, run it more, establish physicality. Seems to me they lost there way with finesse ball, even in the run calls are gadgety , not just beat them back off the LOS stuff..

starts with moore and dak in practice having a meeting with the OL and making it a priority to get the run game back as threat not thrown in as a thoughtless play here and there..the 10 day off period might be where they can take breath and try and reestablish this.

this place would also not react well to running it 40 times and losing 13-10 will say we played small ball, no aggression, and vanilla. coaches literally can't win with fans LOL
we both know this to be true..

 

[RonnieT24]

well against TB they admitted to dak checking out of at least 12 run plays and he was lauded for it, now its an issue?

i mean all year ive reads 100s of replies to not run it into wall for 2-3 yards and cloud of dust now it's an issue?

This has ALWAYS been an issue for me. I am always an advocate of playing tough physical football over high flying numbers padding. I get that last year the defense was so bad we didn't really have a choice but to play catchup all the time but this year's defense is at least serviceable and has at times been really good. That means that we don't have to play like we're down 24 points when it's 13-7. But that's exactly what we do. The instant we've not in the lead Moore shifts into pass pass pass pass and if that doesn't work pass more mode. He never seems to want to take a step back and take the air out of the ball and let things settle down.

OI get your point we need to run it better, run it more, establish physicality. Seems to me they lost there way with finesse ball, even in the run calls are gadgety , not just beat them back off the LOS stuff..

starts with moore and dak in practice having a meeting with the OL and making it a priority to get the run game back as threat not thrown in as a thoughtless play here and there..the 10 day off period might be where they can take breath and try and reestablish this.

this place would also not react well to running it 40 times and losing 13-10 will say we played small ball, no aggression, and vanilla. coaches literally can't win with fans LOL
we both know this to be true..

This place reacts like idiots if we WIN a game like that.. Who cares? It's about winning games with a side goal of getting ready for playoff football. In order for this team to get where it wants to go it's likely going to have to go on the road, maybe to a place with crappy freezing *** weather and get a win.. Or just a frenzied group of fans who will not shut up for a nanosecond to allow you to communicate with your receivers. The high flying passing game is NOT what's going to carry you under those circumstances. It's going to be the running game and the defense. If Moore and Dak don't figure that out we're all going to be miserable in the end.

 

[Nexx]

when teams play eight in the box because your QB cant freaking throw a football your run games looks that much worse.

 

[quickccc]

Man it made sad as I watched multiple teams open up gaping holes for their backs down after down. It also made me realize that our line is nowhere near as good as its reputation. Well let me qualify that.. Our line cannot execute Kellen Moore's run plays as good as its reputation.

What I notice about other teams is that they tend to double team at the point of attack. The Packers did it to Aaron Donald a dozen times when they needed to run the ball. Same with the Bucs when they were closing out the game against the Colts.. And the Broncos against the Chargers.. Admittedly I didn't study it as intently as I do our schemes, but I saw precious little of the slide step reach blocking we feature in our running attack. Maybe Moore thinks our guys are more athletic than they are.. but we repeatedly allow penetration when we run this scheme.

Yes we can gash teams with sorry *** fronts with it but against even decent fronts our linemen get knocked into the backfield more often than not. Against good fronts we have no chance whatsoever to run the ball. I also noticed that teams stayed committed to the run even when it wasn't yielding big yards. Dillon and Jones were averaging just over 3 ypc against the Rams but they kept hammering at it all game long. They never surrendered the way we do. And they have Aaron Freaking Rodgers at QB.. Oh and that guy with the Bucs is an okay QB too.. yet they also kept pounding the run even when it was getting them under 4 ypc until late in the game.

Yes WE have turned completely skittish about running the ball and shift into 5 wide empty backfield at the drop of a hat. I love Dak Prescott as much as anyone but it's absolutely brain dead that we keep asking him to do what even teams with Hall of Fame QBs don't ask of them.. win throwing it 75-80% of the time without even a hint of a rushing attack. What the hell is wrong with our offensive coordinator that he can't see this?

- The Packers also had the benefit of getting out ahead and staying out front with a lead, so that makes it more convenient to try at the run game instead of being in a position where
they are chasing points from behind. They are not in a position where they have to abandon the run.

- What i think what happens with Kellen is if he has the lead or the game score is scoreless at the start, he will go to the run game. If the run game is getting stalled, and Dak is off his game, then
Kellen feels more pressed to get Dak untracked while occasionally run the ball. Problem is .. we rarely are getting splash runs, we are not getting enuff of the 5-6 yards before 3rd down,
and Kellen goes to the pass game to get untracked.

- Now the question I’d have is: why is that we are Not getting the 5-6 yard runs, ..and where are the big splash runs ? ..the 20+ yrd runs ?
Unlike the current Zeke of 2021, Pollard has that 20+ yrd in-line burst to get those type runs, he’s really my measuring gauge, not Elliott. (and this is before he hurt his knee)
- But if Pollard himself is having issues getting untracked and he’s getting stuff at line, or hit for losses in backfield on a frequent basis, that would lead me to
think the road grounders are not doing it upfront, and there’s some issues with the blocking scheme (per Philibin)

- In terms of how much/how many carries the RBs are getting in the run game – that goes to Kellen Moore.
In terms of how we are “designing’ the run-blocking scheme within the OL vs D-fronts, I believe that goes to OL coach Joe Philibin.

 

[blueblood70]

This has ALWAYS been an issue for me. I am always an advocate of playing tough physical football over high flying numbers padding. I get that last year the defense was so bad we didn't really have a choice but to play catchup all the time but this year's defense is at least serviceable and has at times been really good. That means that we don't have to play like we're down 24 points when it's 13-7. But that's exactly what we do. The instant we've not in the lead Moore shifts into pass pass pass pass and if that doesn't work pass more mode. He never seems to want to take a step back and take the air out of the ball and let things settle down.



This place reacts like idiots if we WIN a game like that.. Who cares? It's about winning games with a side goal of getting ready for playoff football. In order for this team to get where it wants to go it's likely going to have to go on the road, maybe to a place with crappy freezing *** weather and get a win.. Or just a frenzied group of fans who will not shut up for a nanosecond to allow you to communicate with your receivers. The high flying passing game is NOT what's going to carry you under those circumstances. It's going to be the running game and the defense. If Moore and Dak don't figure that out we're all going to be miserable in the end.

im in agreement to point..needs to be middle ground..but yes the ground and pound needs to find its way back..with zeke hurt might be delayed some but him not playing this week and 10 days off ought to help get it back going..

 

[Jstopper]

He's talking about having a qb the defense fears....or at least respects. Yes dak CAN make good throws. But he's also the qb who threw the ball in the dirt in last week's ot.

For me....dak certainly gets another shot with one or both top wrs back. But...an elite qb doesn't miss that throw.

Your last sentence sounds good from a fan standpoint but doesnt exist in reality. Idc if youre a HOF qb, ive seen them all miss throws that were head scratchers.

 

[RonnieT24]

Your last sentence sounds good from a fan standpoint but doesnt exist in reality. Idc if youre a HOF qb, ive seen them all miss throws that were head scratchers.

I should also point out that Rodgers and Brady both stuck with running games that were mostly just okay most of the day and only really broke off anything big late after the defenses were worn down.

 

[Jstopper]

when teams play eight in the box because your QB cant freaking throw a football your run games looks that much worse.

Dumb post as usual

 

[Denim Chicken]

Come on dude.. don't join in the hate fest with these other morons.. The throw was behind.. but it also hit Noah Brown in the arm. It's a catch that NFL receivers are expected to make 99 out of 100 times. They're not paid to only catch perfect passes.

It was a bad throw. That one is not on the WR.

 

[RonnieT24]

im in agreement to point..needs to be middle ground..but yes the ground and pound needs to find its way back..with zeke hurt might be delayed some but him not playing this week and 10 days off ought to help get it back going..

The biggest problem I have is there is clearly no commitment to running the ball on the part of Moore. We almost NEVER run the ball two plays in a row. It's like he's allergic to it. Every running back who has ever toted the rock will tell you that he needs a few totes in a row to get into a groove.. To get a feel for the defense and how the line is blocking ... No back is going to be consistently productive getting 5-6 carries a half.. and either watching the other guy carry it or more often, watching us throw the ball all the time. If we don't run the ball then the running game CANNOT get going. It's a no brainer.. Moore lost me after the Tampa game when he uttered the infamous "yards are yards" quote. That signaled to me that he simply does NOT understand the value of running ball.. To his backs, to his linemen and maybe just as importantly to his defense, which his pass pass pass philosophy is leaving out on the field way too long when it's not clicking. This is why watching other teams run it yesterday depressed me. Unless Jerry Jones steps to Moore and tells him to run the damn ball it's not going to happen with this team.. and this team is going to fall on its face.

 

[RonnieT24]

It was a bad throw. That one is not on the WR.

I didn't say it wasn't a bad throw.. What I said was that it was a catch NFL receivers are paid to make. Both things can be equally true.