All a big leg kicker does is get you in trouble

Jarntt said:
Let's not confuse the fact that Zuerlein stinks this year with the fact that he also has a big leg
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Zeurlein has stunk up the joint in 4 of his 10 years in the league (less than 80%). The guy is awful. I bet you could not find another kicker with a job 10 years straight with his kicking percentage!
 
Kickers in general can hurt you at times.

Washington lost its kicker at halftime Monday night and that led directly to their win.

They scored a TD to go up 15-9 and had to go for 2... they converted to go up 17-9.

Seattle scored a TD late to cut it to 17-15... they went for 2 and failed. Game over.

Had Washington’s kicker been healthy, they’d have kicked the PAT to go up 16-9 and then Seattle’s TD would have tied it with a PAT.
 
I disagree with the premise... you need an accurate kicker, period, and then that kicker knows from game to game what his max distance is. Also, conditions impact the distance a lot. Indoor on turf or in Denver vs windy Chicago (grass field) very different circumstances.
 
aikemirv said:
You are an odd bird. You want me to prove that Zeurlein has not lost us games while the facts show that we lost to LV by 1 pt since his extra point was 1 less point and we went to OT because of it. YOU cannot prove how the game would have gone had he made and I cannot prove how the game would have gone had he made. Therefore the only evidence is the lost point on the scoreboard- so the only proof is in the scoreboard! Zeurlein missed an XP and a 33yrder vs Tampa. The only proof that he lost us that game in the fact that we lost by 2 and he cost us 4. I have the only proof - you have feelings and what if's!

You argued all day with me yesterday that Zeurlein is a good kicker while his career and yearly stats only put him in the top 15, 3 of his 10 years. He is in fact below average during his NFL time as a kicker - those are the facts and they are proof.
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he hasnt not one game is he directly responsible for losing this year..it was rhetorical i watch enough football to know the kicks he missed when he missed them and how the defense was playing had no effect on the outcome..

not at all watch a lot of football all around the league most teams have Greg or worse not many have perfect kicker or a more reliable kicker if you take out those 58-62 yard attempts which are throwaway hail marry type kicks, hes been solid..

that not how football works, cant go back and day he cost us 4 points early on in a game and we lost by two, its him..****** homie ..the bucs would have easily made up for those point as the defense wasn't stopping anyone.our qb threw a pick that cost us points etc etc

i mean no direct evidence you add those points in when they ahpped the outcome changes..i doubt it..so go fly a kite , stay away from football if you so not understand how you cant assume lost points early in games can have direct effect on a win or loss..

for kicker tieing a game in reg to go to ot or making a GW kick in reg OT all in the late 4th qtr etc you miss those yes those are bad truly direct lead to loss..but those 1st qtr misses not at all how it works when your defense isnt stopping anyone..

it cute you think basic math wins your argument,,it doesnt.:facepalm:
 
In today's NFL, most teams have a "big leg" kicker, especially since so many games are indoors or in perfect conditions. It's up to the coach to decide whether the payoff of a long FG is worth the risk of the miss and gifting the opponent with great field position. Personally, my philosophy is that a 53+ yard FG should not be attempted unless it is the end of the half or end of the game. If the 4th down is manageable then go for it. If not, every team needs to practice a pooch punt to play for field position.
 
This guy is inconsistent and between him and Macs use of him it will cost us a playoff game watch . Give me Dan Bailey in his prime any day over this heartbreaker
 
Yeah overall it hasn't been great for us.

I have to credit him though, because game on the line, crunch time he has come through multiple times. Now that don't mean he didn't miss a shorter on earlier in the game. Just credit for doing it when it counts the most.
 
blueblood70 said:
it cute you think basic math wins your argument,,it doesnt.:facepalm:
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I don't believe your dismissive tone is going to win you any followers to your opinion.

I was a kicker at level just below the pros, and this has been my experience, and how I continue to coach younger kickers to the approach to the game.

1. You are not on the squad because you can bomb it away from 55+ yards 50% of the time. That won't get you on any squad in a competitive situation. And I'm not talking about internal on the team competition. I mean being on the squad because you can help the team win. You are there because you displayed a level of consistency your coaches and your team mates can rely upon in game time to seal and secure the points needed to add to a cumulative number display on an electronic device.

2. Kicks you miss may not affect the wins or losses from a binary perspective, but football is not a singular binary game of just the final number on the scoreboard. It's a lot of messy stuff in between. Great plays, bad plays, penalties, swearing, dirty play, hard hits and all the nasty stuff that gets emotions going and tempers flaring. Tough games tend to exhibit this. What I teach young kickers is to be the calming influence. Interact with your team mates. Show your skills, and put yourself out there as one of them in respecting the hard effort they put in to gaining territory by hitting the consistent makeable kicks within your physical ability.

The best thing a kicker can do is to be reliable. When you jog onto the field in your clean jersey your will be passing a lot of guys gassed and frustrated at the prior events that have led to fourth down and them conceding the field to you. As the hoodie would say, "Just do your damn job!" And I preface this by saying the hoodie would not say that on the 58 yarders. This year I wonder how much private swearing he has done with his coaching staff about Nick Folk and his (4) missed PATs. You can't tell based on what the entire league knows about Belichick that he isn't wondering at times when this will bite him in the ***.

3. When you don't make expected kicks the emotional loss of the points typically are much more than how they register on the scoreboard. Take a look at the eyes of the players on the sidelines when a kicker misses a makeable kick. Oddly enough it is the flip side emotion of when a player makes an incredibly long and improbable kick. The thrill of victory, and the agony of defeat. If you don't think a missed kick and the affect it has on the team is not real, then I can't help you. In a tight game or one where you are not scoring at will it is a real heartbreaker for the players and gives ulcers to coaches.

So did Zuerlein lose the games where we lost within the points margins of his failed kicks that were makeable? In the world of kicking where I was playing, and how I council players to approach kicking I say "Yes". He has the one situation in the entire game where the rules and conditions gives him as a player the highest controlled environment to be successful on a regular basis. Placekicking. So when you don't make them that registers as a loss to me. Losses on individual kicking plays contribute to losses on the score board. This directly affects winning or losing when cumulatively added up.

I'm fairly certain in some of these games Greg has gone home, and taken a different stance to his role in the defeat than what your opinion espouses.
 
aikemirv said:
It leads you into bad decisions near mid field and sets the other team up in good field position half of the time. I wonder what the stats are regarding make % of over 55 yards and the resulting opponent points with a miss over 55 yards.

I would like to compare that with the 4th down try percentage from that range and resulting points per team of conversion or fail.

In short, is the better decision than a 59 yard kick , going for it on 4th and 7.
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Agree! Give me a guy who hits 48 and closer every time and never misses extra points.
 
Nav22 said:
Kickers in general can hurt you at times.

Washington lost its kicker at halftime Monday night and that led directly to their win.

They scored a TD to go up 15-9 and had to go for 2... they converted to go up 17-9.

Seattle scored a TD late to cut it to 17-15... they went for 2 and failed. Game over.

Had Washington’s kicker been healthy, they’d have kicked the PAT to go up 16-9 and then Seattle’s TD would have tied it with a PAT.
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If their kicker had been healthy they would have kicked a field goal in the last 2 mins of the game to make it a 2 possession game instead of going for another TD (and failing)
 
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