CFZ Simple Plan Moving Forward

817Gill

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It takes several years to draft and develop an elite OL. From Smith in 2011, Fred '13 and Martin '14 it takes 4-5 years. We already have cornerstones in Zack and La'El, but La'El is in decline and Zack is already 31. Our RB who was supposed to carry this offense in Zeke has declined and has a gigantic contract.

IT's not as simple as you say it is
We have 3 pieces already, just need an interior lineman and we have taken a huge step. Plenty available this year.

Look at Indy. They went from crap with Luck to an elite o-line in 2 seasons and they had nobody to work with as they had to replace all 5 guys. It can most definitely be done and we are 3/5ths of the way there.
 

johneric8

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Honestly if we want to take a step back from the ledge, most teams would accept going from a bad season to a good one like we did.. Maybe in big mike's third year it will be enough to have built the team properly? Will he finally have the pieces he needs? I mean, I know it's not something people are looking at, but it is a possibility..
 

visionary

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I agree with your thoughts
I also think these are doable
The main issue I see is that their implementation would mean getting rid of Moore and Jerry is not going to do that and no one else is stupid enough to hire him as their HC

we’re stuck in neutral with this OC and QB
 

Killerinstinct

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Trade him for a few draft picks and take the chance that we get the 1 in 4 elite QB? Huge risk to take. Sounds nice in hindsight but chances are we pick someone who’s not better anytime soon.

Remember most QB’s are not elite, the chances are much higher that we pick someone equal to or worse than Dak than they are we pick a Mahomes or Allen. Not a fan of setting the team back 5 years as there’s a clear blueprint for how to win with a Dak level QB.

Make the move to a running and play action oriented attack and Dak is more than good enough to steer the ship.

Losers mentality! Pay him like he is the best in the league and hope he can "steer the ship" IF he is surrounded by superior talent and IF the right plan is put in action. Trading him at the height of his "potential" value would not have set you back 5 years. Betting on the come and giving in to his demands is what set us back 5 years.
 

817Gill

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Losers mentality! Pay him like he is the best in the league and hope he can "steer the ship" IF he is surrounded by superior talent and IF the right plan is put in action. Trading him at the height of his "potential" value would not have set you back 5 years. Betting on the come and giving in to his demands is what set us back 5 years.
I mean there’s a clear way to win with a Dak type QB. Build the team around a running game and play action passing and you’re just fine.

You’re acting like just because you have multiple first round picks that means you’re guaranteed a good QB. Far more busts than successful QB’s are drafted. You don’t take wild swings in the name of fear or change, it’s gotta be calculated.

Your IF’s apply to any non-top 5 QB. There are only 5-6 people in the world who can be an elite QB. Ask NYJ and Jacksonville how multiple first round picks and top-5 QB selections worked for them. They do what you are suggesting we do, yet they are perennial losers.

Every team needs to build correctly around their QB, getting a new one doesn’t change that. You need to have a good team and plan regardless of your QB. Shoot even Rodgers hasn’t been back to a SB cause the team around him hasn’t been there. People think that drafting a new QB solves the team building aspect of a franchise but it doesn’t. A generational talent can cover it up for a bit but you need a good team regardless.

Focus on the running scheme and some new interior O-line pieces and you have a dominant team. None of that change requires trading or drafting a QB.

But again this ain’t a Dak thread so I’ll stop here, but trading QB’s and drafting them isn’t the same as Madden. That’s why you don’t see it happen often or at all.
 

Killerinstinct

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"There are only 5-6 people in the world who can be an elite QB."

There are only 5-6 people in the world that deserve to be paid like an elite QB and guess who is not one of them.
 

goshann

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I took a few days off to avoid the huge emotional outpour and hyperbole. Sucked to lose that game and didn’t want to wade in the pool of despair. Now that I’ve had time to look forward, I think the fix to getting to the next level is pretty simple and takes two steps:

1. Fix the run game! This means schematically, the O line personnel, and adjusting the roles of Zeke/Pollard.

Dak probably will never be an elite QB, but he’s more than good enough to make a playoff/SB run if the team is built correctly. More on Kellen below, but they made it obvious that they hoped a high flying passing attack would lead them to where they wanted to go, which was a miscalculation. Tannehill, Garrappolo, and even Goff have ridden high caliber run games and creative play action passing to Conference Championship Games. It’s those blueprints we must follow, not Kansas City or Buffalo.

Regardless if you think Dak is 7-10 or 11-13 overall amongst QB’s, the gap between team building for the elite 5-6 guys is way different than for the next group. Outside of those top guys, QB’s need ample support. Talk about trading or cutting him is not actually possible, so we must continue to build the best team possible around him. This ain’t a Dak thread, but had to put this here as a disclaimer that we must find ways to build around him, bickering about him being here is pointless.


2. Offensive scheme needs adjustment.

Talked about it a bit above but Moore has made it clear that either he doesn’t know how to scheme up a good run game or he doesn’t want to. I underestimated how Kellen’s Linehan/Garrett tutelage mixed in with his Chris Petersen tutelage. Moore likes the trickery and formation splitting of his college coach, but the bread and butter of his route combinations and tendencies come from Linehan/Garrett with whom he spent his entire NFL career with.

Moore seems to be just as pass-happy as Garrett was while using many of the same route combinations Linehan did. Multiple WR’s running stop routes, long developing routes, and a lack of a cohesive quick passing game all scream the previous regime. Multiple analysts broke these combinations down, and even though Dak missed on some stuff, the overwhelming sentiment is that there is too much simplicity in these concepts. Where have we heard that before? This coaching tree isn’t super adaptive either, and nothing has shown us that Moore is different in that regard.

Again, they miscalculated the pass vs run split when trying to create an offensive identity. Not sure if Moore and McCarthy are the right guys to make the necessary changes there.

The final issue with our scheme is that we don’t really have one. Here’s the link to an amazing Ringer article about Moore’s “scheme”. In a nutshell, he tries to take what the defense gives him. The pillars of this philosophy are “if they try to defend the run we pass and vice versa” and “if they try to take away your best players, we use our role players.” Interesting read, but this presents two fundamental issues:

‘How Kellen Moore’s Anti-System is Fueling the Cowboys’
https://www.theringer.com/platform/...boys-offense-scheme-kellen-moore-dak-prescott

Issue 1) We have no go-to or bread and butter plays. Since you allow the defense to dictate your a strategy, you’re at their mercy. When things don’t go as planned, a lack of having go-to plays and “this is what we do” calls doesn’t allow your offense to go back into their comfort zone. The team doesn’t have its set of plays that they feel most comfortable and successful with.

Issue 2) Allowing the defense to scheme away your top targets makes you weaker regardless of how deep your weapon pool is. Yes we love Wilson and Schultz, but you can’t ignore Lamb and Cooper because the defense is scheming against them. We heard Cooper speak up but Lamn fizzled out the second half of this year and I believe it has a lot to do with Moore simply going to who has the “matchup”. Your star skill players should be targeted and relied upon to carry the bulk of your offensive production, regardless of how the defense is playing them. Relying on solid contributors to contribute like stars is unreasonable.


I know it was a long post, but if we can fix these two problems we’ll be just fine. The defense is built to play with a lead and be fresh and running the ball maximizes that. Would love to keep Quinn as HC and hire a great run-schemer as the OC. A ball control offense that can beat you over the top coupled with this defense would be a match made in Heaven. Anyways these are my thoughts, any ideas?

Well done. Completely agree
 

offlimits

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I took a few days off to avoid the huge emotional outpour and hyperbole. Sucked to lose that game and didn’t want to wade in the pool of despair. Now that I’ve had time to look forward, I think the fix to getting to the next level is pretty simple and takes two steps:

1. Fix the run game! This means schematically, the O line personnel, and adjusting the roles of Zeke/Pollard.

Dak probably will never be an elite QB, but he’s more than good enough to make a playoff/SB run if the team is built correctly. More on Kellen below, but they made it obvious that they hoped a high flying passing attack would lead them to where they wanted to go, which was a miscalculation. Tannehill, Garrappolo, and even Goff have ridden high caliber run games and creative play action passing to Conference Championship Games. It’s those blueprints we must follow, not Kansas City or Buffalo.

Regardless if you think Dak is 7-10 or 11-13 overall amongst QB’s, the gap between team building for the elite 5-6 guys is way different than for the next group. Outside of those top guys, QB’s need ample support. Talk about trading or cutting him is not actually possible, so we must continue to build the best team possible around him. This ain’t a Dak thread, but had to put this here as a disclaimer that we must find ways to build around him, bickering about him being here is pointless.


2. Offensive scheme needs adjustment.

Talked about it a bit above but Moore has made it clear that either he doesn’t know how to scheme up a good run game or he doesn’t want to. I underestimated how Kellen’s Linehan/Garrett tutelage mixed in with his Chris Petersen tutelage. Moore likes the trickery and formation splitting of his college coach, but the bread and butter of his route combinations and tendencies come from Linehan/Garrett with whom he spent his entire NFL career with.

Moore seems to be just as pass-happy as Garrett was while using many of the same route combinations Linehan did. Multiple WR’s running stop routes, long developing routes, and a lack of a cohesive quick passing game all scream the previous regime. Multiple analysts broke these combinations down, and even though Dak missed on some stuff, the overwhelming sentiment is that there is too much simplicity in these concepts. Where have we heard that before? This coaching tree isn’t super adaptive either, and nothing has shown us that Moore is different in that regard.

Again, they miscalculated the pass vs run split when trying to create an offensive identity. Not sure if Moore and McCarthy are the right guys to make the necessary changes there.

The final issue with our scheme is that we don’t really have one. Here’s the link to an amazing Ringer article about Moore’s “scheme”. In a nutshell, he tries to take what the defense gives him. The pillars of this philosophy are “if they try to defend the run we pass and vice versa” and “if they try to take away your best players, we use our role players.” Interesting read, but this presents two fundamental issues:

‘How Kellen Moore’s Anti-System is Fueling the Cowboys’
https://www.theringer.com/platform/...boys-offense-scheme-kellen-moore-dak-prescott

Issue 1) We have no go-to or bread and butter plays. Since you allow the defense to dictate your a strategy, you’re at their mercy. When things don’t go as planned, a lack of having go-to plays and “this is what we do” calls doesn’t allow your offense to go back into their comfort zone. The team doesn’t have its set of plays that they feel most comfortable and successful with.

Issue 2) Allowing the defense to scheme away your top targets makes you weaker regardless of how deep your weapon pool is. Yes we love Wilson and Schultz, but you can’t ignore Lamb and Cooper because the defense is scheming against them. We heard Cooper speak up but Lamn fizzled out the second half of this year and I believe it has a lot to do with Moore simply going to who has the “matchup”. Your star skill players should be targeted and relied upon to carry the bulk of your offensive production, regardless of how the defense is playing them. Relying on solid contributors to contribute like stars is unreasonable.


I know it was a long post, but if we can fix these two problems we’ll be just fine. The defense is built to play with a lead and be fresh and running the ball maximizes that. Would love to keep Quinn as HC and hire a great run-schemer as the OC. A ball control offense that can beat you over the top coupled with this defense would be a match made in Heaven. Anyways these are my thoughts, any ideas?


To fix the putrid run game we must first fix the OL. They go hand in glove and I would certainly draft a TB in the 4th-5th rd in April.
 

DandyDon52

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I took a few days off to avoid the huge emotional outpour and hyperbole. Sucked to lose that game and didn’t want to wade in the pool of despair. Now that I’ve had time to look forward, I think the fix to getting to the next level is pretty simple and takes two steps:

1. Fix the run game! This means schematically, the O line personnel, and adjusting the roles of Zeke/Pollard.

Dak probably will never be an elite QB, but he’s more than good enough to make a playoff/SB run if the team is built correctly. More on Kellen below, but they made it obvious that they hoped a high flying passing attack would lead them to where they wanted to go, which was a miscalculation. Tannehill, Garrappolo, and even Goff have ridden high caliber run games and creative play action passing to Conference Championship Games. It’s those blueprints we must follow, not Kansas City or Buffalo.

Regardless if you think Dak is 7-10 or 11-13 overall amongst QB’s, the gap between team building for the elite 5-6 guys is way different than for the next group. Outside of those top guys, QB’s need ample support. Talk about trading or cutting him is not actually possible, so we must continue to build the best team possible around him. This ain’t a Dak thread, but had to put this here as a disclaimer that we must find ways to build around him, bickering about him being here is pointless.


2. Offensive scheme needs adjustment.

Talked about it a bit above but Moore has made it clear that either he doesn’t know how to scheme up a good run game or he doesn’t want to. I underestimated how Kellen’s Linehan/Garrett tutelage mixed in with his Chris Petersen tutelage. Moore likes the trickery and formation splitting of his college coach, but the bread and butter of his route combinations and tendencies come from Linehan/Garrett with whom he spent his entire NFL career with.

Moore seems to be just as pass-happy as Garrett was while using many of the same route combinations Linehan did. Multiple WR’s running stop routes, long developing routes, and a lack of a cohesive quick passing game all scream the previous regime. Multiple analysts broke these combinations down, and even though Dak missed on some stuff, the overwhelming sentiment is that there is too much simplicity in these concepts. Where have we heard that before? This coaching tree isn’t super adaptive either, and nothing has shown us that Moore is different in that regard.

Again, they miscalculated the pass vs run split when trying to create an offensive identity. Not sure if Moore and McCarthy are the right guys to make the necessary changes there.

The final issue with our scheme is that we don’t really have one. Here’s the link to an amazing Ringer article about Moore’s “scheme”. In a nutshell, he tries to take what the defense gives him. The pillars of this philosophy are “if they try to defend the run we pass and vice versa” and “if they try to take away your best players, we use our role players.” Interesting read, but this presents two fundamental issues:

‘How Kellen Moore’s Anti-System is Fueling the Cowboys’
https://www.theringer.com/platform/...boys-offense-scheme-kellen-moore-dak-prescott

Issue 1) We have no go-to or bread and butter plays. Since you allow the defense to dictate your a strategy, you’re at their mercy. When things don’t go as planned, a lack of having go-to plays and “this is what we do” calls doesn’t allow your offense to go back into their comfort zone. The team doesn’t have its set of plays that they feel most comfortable and successful with.

Issue 2) Allowing the defense to scheme away your top targets makes you weaker regardless of how deep your weapon pool is. Yes we love Wilson and Schultz, but you can’t ignore Lamb and Cooper because the defense is scheming against them. We heard Cooper speak up but Lamn fizzled out the second half of this year and I believe it has a lot to do with Moore simply going to who has the “matchup”. Your star skill players should be targeted and relied upon to carry the bulk of your offensive production, regardless of how the defense is playing them. Relying on solid contributors to contribute like stars is unreasonable.


I know it was a long post, but if we can fix these two problems we’ll be just fine. The defense is built to play with a lead and be fresh and running the ball maximizes that. Would love to keep Quinn as HC and hire a great run-schemer as the OC. A ball control offense that can beat you over the top coupled with this defense would be a match made in Heaven. Anyways these are my thoughts, any ideas?
great post lol I agree.
Would love to keep Quinn as HC and hire a great run-schemer as the OC.......that would be a good way to go.

only problem is stephen already said mike is staying, and unless kellen takes a HC job, he will not be let go, the jones boys will stay the course.
Elliot will still be starter, so will dak, so expect pretty much the same cowboys team next season lol.
It is a circus , not a football team, and jerry runs it like a circus.
he likes big names, stars to draw people in and passing is more exciting than running.
I think the 2 jones boys are part of why dallas passes so much.
I know for one or 2 games we ran the ball one time around 40 times, and then it suddenly went back to pass happy, so I wonder if jerry said something
to mike or kellen>?>>?:huh:
it made no sense at the time to me.
SF came in here and beat dallas with the well schemed run game, and dallas had its best rb on sideline, so the STAR rb could play and they wound
up not running much and only 31 yards.
it is rare to win with weak run game in playoffs.
 

Smith22

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I took a few days off to avoid the huge emotional outpour and hyperbole. Sucked to lose that game and didn’t want to wade in the pool of despair. Now that I’ve had time to look forward, I think the fix to getting to the next level is pretty simple and takes two steps:

1. Fix the run game! This means schematically, the O line personnel, and adjusting the roles of Zeke/Pollard.

Dak probably will never be an elite QB, but he’s more than good enough to make a playoff/SB run if the team is built correctly. More on Kellen below, but they made it obvious that they hoped a high flying passing attack would lead them to where they wanted to go, which was a miscalculation. Tannehill, Garrappolo, and even Goff have ridden high caliber run games and creative play action passing to Conference Championship Games. It’s those blueprints we must follow, not Kansas City or Buffalo.

Regardless if you think Dak is 7-10 or 11-13 overall amongst QB’s, the gap between team building for the elite 5-6 guys is way different than for the next group. Outside of those top guys, QB’s need ample support. Talk about trading or cutting him is not actually possible, so we must continue to build the best team possible around him. This ain’t a Dak thread, but had to put this here as a disclaimer that we must find ways to build around him, bickering about him being here is pointless.


2. Offensive scheme needs adjustment.

Talked about it a bit above but Moore has made it clear that either he doesn’t know how to scheme up a good run game or he doesn’t want to. I underestimated how Kellen’s Linehan/Garrett tutelage mixed in with his Chris Petersen tutelage. Moore likes the trickery and formation splitting of his college coach, but the bread and butter of his route combinations and tendencies come from Linehan/Garrett with whom he spent his entire NFL career with.

Moore seems to be just as pass-happy as Garrett was while using many of the same route combinations Linehan did. Multiple WR’s running stop routes, long developing routes, and a lack of a cohesive quick passing game all scream the previous regime. Multiple analysts broke these combinations down, and even though Dak missed on some stuff, the overwhelming sentiment is that there is too much simplicity in these concepts. Where have we heard that before? This coaching tree isn’t super adaptive either, and nothing has shown us that Moore is different in that regard.

Again, they miscalculated the pass vs run split when trying to create an offensive identity. Not sure if Moore and McCarthy are the right guys to make the necessary changes there.

The final issue with our scheme is that we don’t really have one. Here’s the link to an amazing Ringer article about Moore’s “scheme”. In a nutshell, he tries to take what the defense gives him. The pillars of this philosophy are “if they try to defend the run we pass and vice versa” and “if they try to take away your best players, we use our role players.” Interesting read, but this presents two fundamental issues:

‘How Kellen Moore’s Anti-System is Fueling the Cowboys’
https://www.theringer.com/platform/...boys-offense-scheme-kellen-moore-dak-prescott

Issue 1) We have no go-to or bread and butter plays. Since you allow the defense to dictate your a strategy, you’re at their mercy. When things don’t go as planned, a lack of having go-to plays and “this is what we do” calls doesn’t allow your offense to go back into their comfort zone. The team doesn’t have its set of plays that they feel most comfortable and successful with.

Issue 2) Allowing the defense to scheme away your top targets makes you weaker regardless of how deep your weapon pool is. Yes we love Wilson and Schultz, but you can’t ignore Lamb and Cooper because the defense is scheming against them. We heard Cooper speak up but Lamn fizzled out the second half of this year and I believe it has a lot to do with Moore simply going to who has the “matchup”. Your star skill players should be targeted and relied upon to carry the bulk of your offensive production, regardless of how the defense is playing them. Relying on solid contributors to contribute like stars is unreasonable.


I know it was a long post, but if we can fix these two problems we’ll be just fine. The defense is built to play with a lead and be fresh and running the ball maximizes that. Would love to keep Quinn as HC and hire a great run-schemer as the OC. A ball control offense that can beat you over the top coupled with this defense would be a match made in Heaven. Anyways these are my thoughts, any ideas?

I agree fixing the running game will go a long way in helping Dak and giving the offense more balance.

The question is how to do so quickly. Maybe target center/tackle/guard early in draft? I heard this a good OT draft. You could possibly take the 1st/2nd rated center and a pretty good tackle, possibly move Collins to LG and start Steele.

That strategy just leaves me worried with:

who we lose on defense, including DQ, and how we address those needs at the same time.
 

IceStar-D7

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Kellen Moore is a pass happy OC. You planning on winning with Dak throwing 30 plus a game??GOOD LUCK. And that's with any qb not named Mahomes or Rodgers.
 

Stash

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I've posted this tweet on few threads but I'll post it again since it's relevant to your thread.



Two other things I noticed about the game plan and/or execution:

  1. The Hulk package. During the game when the offense wasn't doing much, Moore went to the Hulk package - with two additional linemen on the field. Suddenly, the offense sprang to life and we drove down the field to score. and then - poof! - the package was gone. Not used again - for running the football anyway. When I did see it in use later, Moore tried to 'get cute' with it and pass the ball. The defense wasn't fooled whatsoever and Dak threw into double coverage and only luck prevented an interception.
  2. Secondly, and the most disturbing trend, where are the downfield throws? The one time I actually saw Dak and the offense try, it resulted in Cooper's touchdown catch. And once again - I never saw it happen again. Opposing defenses aren't going to play it straight when they have no fear that you will attack them deep. This plays into the hands of those playing man outside. You have to make them pay, or at least try. If there is not attempt, there is no fear. The defense dictates to you.
 

kskboys

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I took a few days off to avoid the huge emotional outpour and hyperbole. Sucked to lose that game and didn’t want to wade in the pool of despair. Now that I’ve had time to look forward, I think the fix to getting to the next level is pretty simple and takes two steps:

1. Fix the run game! This means schematically, the O line personnel, and adjusting the roles of Zeke/Pollard.

Dak probably will never be an elite QB, but he’s more than good enough to make a playoff/SB run if the team is built correctly. More on Kellen below, but they made it obvious that they hoped a high flying passing attack would lead them to where they wanted to go, which was a miscalculation. Tannehill, Garrappolo, and even Goff have ridden high caliber run games and creative play action passing to Conference Championship Games. It’s those blueprints we must follow, not Kansas City or Buffalo.

Regardless if you think Dak is 7-10 or 11-13 overall amongst QB’s, the gap between team building for the elite 5-6 guys is way different than for the next group. Outside of those top guys, QB’s need ample support. Talk about trading or cutting him is not actually possible, so we must continue to build the best team possible around him. This ain’t a Dak thread, but had to put this here as a disclaimer that we must find ways to build around him, bickering about him being here is pointless.


2. Offensive scheme needs adjustment.

Talked about it a bit above but Moore has made it clear that either he doesn’t know how to scheme up a good run game or he doesn’t want to. I underestimated how Kellen’s Linehan/Garrett tutelage mixed in with his Chris Petersen tutelage. Moore likes the trickery and formation splitting of his college coach, but the bread and butter of his route combinations and tendencies come from Linehan/Garrett with whom he spent his entire NFL career with.

Moore seems to be just as pass-happy as Garrett was while using many of the same route combinations Linehan did. Multiple WR’s running stop routes, long developing routes, and a lack of a cohesive quick passing game all scream the previous regime. Multiple analysts broke these combinations down, and even though Dak missed on some stuff, the overwhelming sentiment is that there is too much simplicity in these concepts. Where have we heard that before? This coaching tree isn’t super adaptive either, and nothing has shown us that Moore is different in that regard.

Again, they miscalculated the pass vs run split when trying to create an offensive identity. Not sure if Moore and McCarthy are the right guys to make the necessary changes there.

The final issue with our scheme is that we don’t really have one. Here’s the link to an amazing Ringer article about Moore’s “scheme”. In a nutshell, he tries to take what the defense gives him. The pillars of this philosophy are “if they try to defend the run we pass and vice versa” and “if they try to take away your best players, we use our role players.” Interesting read, but this presents two fundamental issues:

‘How Kellen Moore’s Anti-System is Fueling the Cowboys’
https://www.theringer.com/platform/...boys-offense-scheme-kellen-moore-dak-prescott

Issue 1) We have no go-to or bread and butter plays. Since you allow the defense to dictate your a strategy, you’re at their mercy. When things don’t go as planned, a lack of having go-to plays and “this is what we do” calls doesn’t allow your offense to go back into their comfort zone. The team doesn’t have its set of plays that they feel most comfortable and successful with.

Issue 2) Allowing the defense to scheme away your top targets makes you weaker regardless of how deep your weapon pool is. Yes we love Wilson and Schultz, but you can’t ignore Lamb and Cooper because the defense is scheming against them. We heard Cooper speak up but Lamn fizzled out the second half of this year and I believe it has a lot to do with Moore simply going to who has the “matchup”. Your star skill players should be targeted and relied upon to carry the bulk of your offensive production, regardless of how the defense is playing them. Relying on solid contributors to contribute like stars is unreasonable.


I know it was a long post, but if we can fix these two problems we’ll be just fine. The defense is built to play with a lead and be fresh and running the ball maximizes that. Would love to keep Quinn as HC and hire a great run-schemer as the OC. A ball control offense that can beat you over the top coupled with this defense would be a match made in Heaven. Anyways these are my thoughts, any ideas?
Man, this is a good post about the O, and I agree. However, I disagree w/ you vehemently about the D.


You're correct about Dak being decent, but not great. However, winning a super bowl w/ a QB of his caliber requires a good D, not one who continuously allows drives in key moments. We desperately need "that guy" on D, an Aaron Donald type. No, I'm not saying he needs to be as good as Aaron, but we do not that disruption in the middle. I love Osa and some of the other guys, but those guys are good complementary players. Add in that one guy and suddenly we would hv a D that could stop someone. We are not far away, sitting on our laurels now would be a huge mistake.

However, I disagree w/ you
 

Verdict

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I took a few days off to avoid the huge emotional outpour and hyperbole. Sucked to lose that game and didn’t want to wade in the pool of despair. Now that I’ve had time to look forward, I think the fix to getting to the next level is pretty simple and takes two steps:

1. Fix the run game! This means schematically, the O line personnel, and adjusting the roles of Zeke/Pollard.

Dak probably will never be an elite QB, but he’s more than good enough to make a playoff/SB run if the team is built correctly. More on Kellen below, but they made it obvious that they hoped a high flying passing attack would lead them to where they wanted to go, which was a miscalculation. Tannehill, Garrappolo, and even Goff have ridden high caliber run games and creative play action passing to Conference Championship Games. It’s those blueprints we must follow, not Kansas City or Buffalo.

Regardless if you think Dak is 7-10 or 11-13 overall amongst QB’s, the gap between team building for the elite 5-6 guys is way different than for the next group. Outside of those top guys, QB’s need ample support. Talk about trading or cutting him is not actually possible, so we must continue to build the best team possible around him. This ain’t a Dak thread, but had to put this here as a disclaimer that we must find ways to build around him, bickering about him being here is pointless.


2. Offensive scheme needs adjustment.

Talked about it a bit above but Moore has made it clear that either he doesn’t know how to scheme up a good run game or he doesn’t want to. I underestimated how Kellen’s Linehan/Garrett tutelage mixed in with his Chris Petersen tutelage. Moore likes the trickery and formation splitting of his college coach, but the bread and butter of his route combinations and tendencies come from Linehan/Garrett with whom he spent his entire NFL career with.

Moore seems to be just as pass-happy as Garrett was while using many of the same route combinations Linehan did. Multiple WR’s running stop routes, long developing routes, and a lack of a cohesive quick passing game all scream the previous regime. Multiple analysts broke these combinations down, and even though Dak missed on some stuff, the overwhelming sentiment is that there is too much simplicity in these concepts. Where have we heard that before? This coaching tree isn’t super adaptive either, and nothing has shown us that Moore is different in that regard.

Again, they miscalculated the pass vs run split when trying to create an offensive identity. Not sure if Moore and McCarthy are the right guys to make the necessary changes there.

The final issue with our scheme is that we don’t really have one. Here’s the link to an amazing Ringer article about Moore’s “scheme”. In a nutshell, he tries to take what the defense gives him. The pillars of this philosophy are “if they try to defend the run we pass and vice versa” and “if they try to take away your best players, we use our role players.” Interesting read, but this presents two fundamental issues:

‘How Kellen Moore’s Anti-System is Fueling the Cowboys’
https://www.theringer.com/platform/...boys-offense-scheme-kellen-moore-dak-prescott

Issue 1) We have no go-to or bread and butter plays. Since you allow the defense to dictate your a strategy, you’re at their mercy. When things don’t go as planned, a lack of having go-to plays and “this is what we do” calls doesn’t allow your offense to go back into their comfort zone. The team doesn’t have its set of plays that they feel most comfortable and successful with.

Issue 2) Allowing the defense to scheme away your top targets makes you weaker regardless of how deep your weapon pool is. Yes we love Wilson and Schultz, but you can’t ignore Lamb and Cooper because the defense is scheming against them. We heard Cooper speak up but Lamn fizzled out the second half of this year and I believe it has a lot to do with Moore simply going to who has the “matchup”. Your star skill players should be targeted and relied upon to carry the bulk of your offensive production, regardless of how the defense is playing them. Relying on solid contributors to contribute like stars is unreasonable.


I know it was a long post, but if we can fix these two problems we’ll be just fine. The defense is built to play with a lead and be fresh and running the ball maximizes that. Would love to keep Quinn as HC and hire a great run-schemer as the OC. A ball control offense that can beat you over the top coupled with this defense would be a match made in Heaven. Anyways these are my thoughts, any ideas?
Well thought out, well reasoned post. We are not going to be able to get away from Dak due to cap constraints so if you want to remain relevant you are going to have to play to his strengths.

Dak is a bigger guy. I’m not sure why they don’t have more designed runs for Dak.

The other option is keep Dak and pull the trigger on a QB whenever you find a really good one in the draft and make it a legitimate competition at QB. You can do that because regardless of the cap cost Dak has the drafted QB would be CHEAP.

I’m not saying I am advocating for the latter, but it is one way of approaching the problem.
 

willia451

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Everyone knows the reason why the Dallas Cowboys can't get to a NFCCG since Jimmy Johnson left.

We've gone over it millions of times.

But by all means. Continue.
 

817Gill

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Man, this is a good post about the O, and I agree. However, I disagree w/ you vehemently about the D.


You're correct about Dak being decent, but not great. However, winning a super bowl w/ a QB of his caliber requires a good D, not one who continuously allows drives in key moments. We desperately need "that guy" on D, an Aaron Donald type. No, I'm not saying he needs to be as good as Aaron, but we do not that disruption in the middle. I love Osa and some of the other guys, but those guys are good complementary players. Add in that one guy and suddenly we would hv a D that could stop someone. We are not far away, sitting on our laurels now would be a huge mistake.

However, I disagree w/ you
You don’t think that if we adjusted the O to a run-first/ play action scheme that this years defense would’ve been enough?

Literally the only issue we had this year was run defense and we finished middle of the pack. Even in the second half of the niners game we held up extremely well. We do give up yards, but as the defense gets more talented (new LB’s and Bossman over AB) we’ll tighten that up.

I don’t mean that we need to stand pat on D, there are definitely upgrades to be made. But in this era of defense where no one is dominant, you need to be good at certain things. Scoring D, 3rd down, turnovers, and pressures are super important and we did those very well this year.

Just marry offensive and defensive styles together (run first/ball control offense with aggressive turnover producing defense) and you’re more than good there.
 

817Gill

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Well thought out, well reasoned post. We are not going to be able to get away from Dak due to cap constraints so if you want to remain relevant you are going to have to play to his strengths.

Dak is a bigger guy. I’m not sure why they don’t have more designed runs for Dak.

The other option is keep Dak and pull the trigger on a QB whenever you find a really good one in the draft and make it a legitimate competition at QB. You can do that because regardless of the cap cost Dak has the drafted QB would be CHEAP.

I’m not saying I am advocating for the latter, but it is one way of approaching the problem.
Makes sense Verdict!
 

817Gill

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"There are only 5-6 people in the world who can be an elite QB."

There are only 5-6 people in the world that deserve to be paid like an elite QB and guess who is not one of them.
Yeah but now you’re arguing against a whole system. You think I like how the QB market works? Some things are what they are. The reality is that if you’re a top 10-ish QB you’re gonna get a market setting deal. Arguing that shouldn’t happen isn’t one that is rooted in reality. At the end of the day that’s just how this thing works, and in 2 years when 5-6 guys top Dak’s price, his salary will be more in line with his ranking.

Again the logic makes sense to pay a guy what he’s ranked, but that’s not how the FA market works man. If it was so easy to live in the world you suggest, why don’t NFL teams do it? I’m just talking about the reality of the NFL. Completely understand your sentiment but that’s just not the system.
 
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