The Truth seems to be really hard for people to understand and/or accept

[jwitten82]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

The Bengals also run the ball 26 times per game with one of the better RBs in the league. Burrow averaged 275 yards passing in their wins and 339 yards passing in their losses!!!

If you watched Bengals football, outside of the last two games of the year, they were winning on the legs of Mixon, not the arm of Burrow. Heck, even in the chiefs win... a lot of the yards Burrow put up was YAC from Chase.

Burrow is a good young QB, but that TEAM lead the way.

Mixon averaged 4.1 yards a carry this year, that team winning has everything to do with Burrow's passing this season

 

[cmoney23]

You're honestly saying that Brady or Mac Jones wouldn't make a difference? You're the one who said, "regardless of the QB."

Clearly, I don't think that Mac Jones and Tom Brady are the same level of QB... but you think that the 2019 Patriots team was the same as the 2020 Patriots just without Brady. That was my point. 2020 was an odd year for the Patriots due to losing many PLAYERS... not just Brady. They got good PLAYERS back and they made the PLAYOFFS again. Went 0-1 again, just like Brady's last year there.... 2019.

It's the TEAM.

 

[cmoney23]

CMoney your statement is flawed though. The offense moves because Burrow doesn't care if his receiver is covered or not. He's gonna put it where his guy can succeed & the defender can't do anything about it. That is what the top QB's do. Sure, they are gonna let their backs keep it balanced but ultimately they are gonna beat you thru the air.

This isn't a true statement. the Bengals average about 100 yards less passing in games they win vs games they lose. That is statistical proof that they don't win through the air.

Additionally, your statement is very telling. " sure, they are gonna let their backs keep it balanced" The QB doesn't decide to run on pass. The coaches do. The Bengals clearly made a decision after the Jets loss that they were going to run the ball.

 

[Star Guard_31]

In our current day and age, the Truth seems to be really hard for people to understand and/or accept. I'd like to share with you some truth.

Football is a team game. Some call it the ultimate team game. The media and internet 'experts' try to oversimplify it and tell you that it's the QB... But it's not on him individually. It is one of the most important positions but it's not the key metric to team success. Fantasy football has also helped perpetuate this belief.

I'll give you a couple of examples:
Aaron Rodgers is largely believed to be one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game. He has ONE super bowl on his resume with a lot of playoff failures.
Patrick Mahomes. Often considered the next coming of football Jesus... has struggled mightily when things aren't perfect around him, including the last SuperBowl and an ~8 game stretch this season where the Chiefs had to go way back to the basics and sort of 'reset' their offense around running the ball and fundamentals.
Justin Herbert. Another second coming... missed the playoffs once again.

You might read that and think I'm now blaming those QBs for a lack of success. I'm not. They are examples of GREAT QBs in different stages of their careers that are struggling or have struggled.

The Chiefs got going because the DEFENSE became dominant and they committed to running the ball. Green Bay's big coaching change really just was a coach that committed to the run game. Look at the Rams. They run the ball they win. Stafford had 8 passes at half vs the Cards.

The truth is... Dak is a top 10 QB in this league. The team failed to execute (penalties). The coaches failed to develop consistent game plans that WON football games. They failed to rest injured players and exploit advantages The FO failed to address key position groups. And, at times, Dak failed too. But it's the team.

How can you type Dak is a top ten QB with a straight face?

Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Patrick Mahomes
Russell Wilson
Josh Allen
Justin Herbert
Joe Burrow
Matthew Stafford
Kyler Murray
Derek Carr
Deshaun Watson
Lamar Jackson

I just listed a dozen QBs who are all orders of magnitude better than Dan Prescott. Please tell me which of these QBs Dak is better than.

 

[coogrfan]

How can you type Dak is a top ten QB with a straight face?

Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Patrick Mahomes
Russell Wilson
Josh Allen
Justin Herbert
Joe Burrow
Matthew Stafford
Kyler Murray
Derek Carr
Deshaun Watson
Lamar Jackson

I just listed a dozen QBs who are all orders of magnitude better than Dan Prescott. Please tell me which of these QBs Dak is better than.

My $.02: Dak is better than Stafford, Murray, Carr and Jackson. I would also rank him ahead of Watson at this point due to DW's legal troubles.

 

[cmoney23]

I kind of see the point you are trying to make...but for an organization that has averaged 1 playoff win every 8 years over the past 25 years...I don't think we should reference Aaron Rodgers, or Patrick Mahomes or the Rams when making comparisons. Those teams win as many playoff games in 1 SINGULAR postseason...than we have in the last 25 years combined!!! Heck Nick Foles won more playoff games a couple of years ago...than Dallas has won in the last 25 years. Heck, the Jacksonville Jaguars...who were not even in existence before 1995...have played in 2 conference title games since we last did. Of note, Tom Coughlin returned there a few years ago in a consultant role...and got them back to the conference title game with Blake Bortles!!!!!

So it is simply poor timing for an excuse making post like this!

I would say you make a great point for my post. The Dallas Cowboys have struggled regardless of the QB for years. The team is flawed.

 

[cmoney23]

I don't disagree completely, football is truly a team effort. The team will only be as good as the weakest link. But certain guys on a team have more influence over the outcome than other guys on the team and that is especially true for the QB. Plus, you cannot separate the results on the field from the salary CAP. A QB who gets paid $40 million should accept more responsibility for the outcome.

I clarified this with this statement in my original post:

"It is one of the most important positions"

 

[Star Guard_31]

Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Steve McNair, and Warren Moon never won a Superbowl, but are all HOFers.... Trent Dilpher won a Superbowl and isn't even inducted into his college or high school HOF.

Nick Foles won a Superbowl and bounced around to 2 or three other teams after that. Dilpher and Foles are damn sure not better than Dak...So tell me which quarterback between Dilpher and Foles were better quarterbacks than Marino, Kelly, McNair, or Moon.


I'll wait....

Steve McNair a Hall of Famer? LOL!

Dude had like three Pro Bowl appearances over a 15 year career. Tony Romo has a better shot of getting in the HoF than Air McNair, and Romo isn't getting fitted for a gold jacket anytime soon.

 

[GINeric]

It’s easy to ignore when Tom Brady hops over to a team who hasn’t won anything in a long time and goes right in and wins his 7th trophy.

It’s a QB sport. The salary cap has turned it into a parity league and if anything our roster was one of the better rosters in football this year.

Next year will be year 7 for Dak and he’s won nothing. Elite QBs really don’t go that long only having a single wildcard win. It’s actually pathetic all things considered.

Peyton Manning got drafted in 1998 and didn't win his first Superbowl until 2007.

John Elway got drafted in 1983 and didn't win his first Superbowl until 1997.

Drew Brees got drafted and didn't win his first Superbowl until 2010.

So according to your logic, all of the quarterbacks above are pathetic and aren't elite, correct?? With that said, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Steve McNair, and Warren Moon never won a Superbowl.... Nick Foles and Trent Dilpher have....

Are Nick Foles and Trent Dilpher elite and better than the quarterbacks who've never won a Superbowl at all??? Are those quarterbacks who've never won a Superbowl not considered elite??

 

[cmoney23]

Mixon averaged 4.1 yards a carry this year, that team winning has everything to do with Burrow's passing this season

I don't see how yards per attempt (while 4 YPC is considered the benchmark of a RBs efficiency) is a determining factor here??

The Bengals averaged more yards passing in their losses and less yard passing in their wins.

They averaged 126 yards rushing in wins vs 80 in their losses.

It's a fact. The Bengals success is predicated on running the ball.

 

[cmoney23]

Dallas (18 games): 141 penalties accepted against (168 overall) for 1192 yards.
Cinci (18 games): 79 penalties accepted against (91 overall) for 676 yards.

Call me crazy, but I think that might be the reason the Bengals are still playing and we aren't.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/

Another good contributing factor. For sure.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

I would say you make a great point for my post. The Dallas Cowboys have struggled regardless of the QB for years. The team is flawed.

With that said...Dak was below average Sunday. Needed a "B+" from him...and we got a "C-"

 

[Star Guard_31]

My $.02: Dak is better than Stafford, Murray, Carr and Jackson. I would also rank him ahead of Watson at this point due to DW's legal troubles.

Stafford threw a grand total of 4 incompletions on Monday against a defense that ate Dak's lunch two weeks ago.

Lamar Jackson was the league MVP the last time he played a full season, and Deshaun Watson has a season where he led the league in passing under his belt.

 

[GINeric]

Steve McNair a Hall of Famer? LOL!

Dude had like three Pro Bowl appearances over a 15 year career. Tony Romo has a better shot of getting in the HoF than Air McNair, and Romo isn't getting fitted for a gold jacket anytime soon.

I didn't mean to insinuate that McNair was a HOFer but he led his team to a Superbowl and didn't win. I noticed you didn't exactly answer the question though because you were having too much fun conveniently cherry picking.

Foles and Dilpher won Superbowls... are they better than Marino, Kelly, Moon, and McNair, ALL didn't win Superbowls. Its a simple question.

 

[Cboyfan4ever]

It’s easy to ignore when Tom Brady hops over to a team who hasn’t won anything in a long time and goes right in and wins his 7th trophy.

It’s a QB sport. The salary cap has turned it into a parity league and if anything our roster was one of the better rosters in football this year.

Next year will be year 7 for Dak and he’s won nothing. Elite QBs really don’t go that long only having a single wildcard win. It’s actually pathetic all things considered.

Tampa was loaded w/ talent before Brady.They just needed an upgrade at QB.Gronk certainly helped too.

 

[kwcool619]

I agree with most of your premise, including the assertion that Dak is a top 10 QB. But I think you err in your rationalization by placing too much emphasis on Super Bowl wins as if Dak is merely "one" of anything away from being an equal to the likes of Rodgers or Mahomes.

The true measure of great QB play, in my opinion, is the consistent relevancy provided by a Rodgers or Mahomes. How many playoff runs have the likes of Rodgers and Mahomes combined for? How many time has each advanced to the conference championship game (5 for Rodgers and 3 straight for Mahomes, I believe)?

Dating back to 2007, we have been consistent in winning the NFC East every 2.5 years (6 titles in 15 years) but the Cowboys have posed zero threat to the league beyond that. No, that onus doesn't lie only at the feet of our QBs -- but a large portion of it certainly does. Go back and review the career of every "great" QB from the last 15 years and I'm willing to bet you won't find many who are not regularly in the postseason.

Herbert is just a baby in this league and doesn't belong anywhere near this conversation at this point. He's immensely talented, but will soon be hitting that pressure point where he is judged by whether or not he takes his team to the postseason.

About Herbert: Living in Los Angeles, we see Chargers games almost every Sunday. He is very talented. It doesn't help when his head coach constantly left points on the table in the name of being overly aggressive on fourth down. I'm referring to the K.C. game at SoFi in which Staley left at least a possible 9 points on the field. The Chargers had the Chiefs on the ropes basically the entire game. That game should have clinched a Chargers playoff berth, not have a win and in situation against the Raiders. Herbert is not yet in the conversation but he may be later.

 

[Haimerej]

Clearly, I don't think that Mac Jones and Tom Brady are the same level of QB... but you think that the 2019 Patriots team was the same as the 2020 Patriots just without Brady. That was my point. 2020 was an odd year for the Patriots due to losing many PLAYERS... not just Brady. They got good PLAYERS back and they made the PLAYOFFS again. Went 0-1 again, just like Brady's last year there.... 2019.

It's the TEAM.

Only to an extent. Consider the '07 Bears. The only thing that kept them from being a great team was Rex Grossman at QB. Had they someone on the level of Dilfer or above, they probably win the Super Bowl against the Colts. Grossman was carried by his team to the Super Bowl and cost them when he got there. They had 4 drives that were three and out and two drives that ended within the first 2 plays due to turnovers.

So, yeah, it's a team game. But when you're below average at the most important position your only hope is to have a generational defense who can score and keep you in games.

 

[Star Guard_31]

I didn't mean to insinuate that McNair was a HOFer but he led his team to a Superbowl and didn't win. I noticed you didn't exactly answer the question though because you were having too much fun conveniently cherry picking.

Foles and Dilpher won Superbowls... are they better than Marino, Kelly, Moon, and McNair, ALL didn't win Superbowls. Its a simple question.

Still putting Steve McNair in the company of Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and Warren Moon. He's blushing in heaven right now. Is McNair your uncle or something?

A Doug Williams, Trent Dilfer, or Nick Files wins a Super Bowl once every 20 years. The other 19 years they're being won by franchise QBs.

Your example is analogous to pointing at a random guy who won the lottery, arguing that you don't need to save for retirement because you can just win the power ball like him.

 

[GINeric]

Still putting Steve McNair in the company of Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and Warren Moon. He's blushing in heaven right now. Is McNair your uncle or something?

A Doug Williams, Trent Dilfer, or Nick Files wins a Super Bowl once every 20 years. The other 19 years they're being won by franchise QBs.

Your example is analogous to pointing at a random guy who won the lottery, arguing that you don't need to save for retirement because you can just win the power ball like him.

You're great at deflecting questions, I'll give you that... but again, do you think Dilpher and Foles are better than the quarterbacks who've never won a Superbowl like Marino, Moon, McNair and Kelly???

Because you're obviously grading Daks worth on winning Superbowls so just answer the easy question since you believe every quarterback who's won a Superbowl is a measuring stick.

 

[Swagger]

I'm sure everyone on this forum would love a Brady/Rodgers/Mahomes/etc... but the reality is those guys are few and far between. It could take years and several first round picks before we draft a guy better than Dak let alone an elite level QB. The only way you take the risk of giving up picks and wasting years looking for "that guy" is if you believe you have no shot with the current guy. And I'm sorry but if guys like Joe Flacco, Collin Kaepernick, Cam Newton, Jared Goff, and Jimmy Garoppolo can make it to a Super Bowl... so can Dak. He's going to need some help though.

People miss the point. We could get a similar level of production as Prescott from a 1st or 2nd round rookie and save on average $35 million a year and build a stronger team.