We need to stop overrating the offensive talent here

[CouchCoach]

I rate talent very simply- what has it given us in playoff results?

For example- if the US Olympic track team was talked about as one of the “most talented” in the the Olympics, yet when it came to winning medals, won ZERO- would it still be considered the “most talented”?

By those that do not believe talent is as talent does? Yes. They often use potential and talent interchangeably.

 

[Bobhaze]

Great post. I would be OK with Coopers mediocre numbers if it was opening up the game for other playmakers...but we do not have anybody that could take a 10 yard pass like Tyrek Hill did and take it to the house 60+ yards

Cee Dee Lamb is a 1st round pick....he should not need the "presence" of an Amari Cooper to "get off". He is not fast. His mythical legendary YAC is a reputation he earned against college kids...have not seen it at the pros. And he has a lot of drops. I would take Deebo Samules over him any day.

I think La'el Collins has the physical traits to be top 5 at his postion...just not the commitment, focus and discipline. I think I read him and Dak are pretty close of the field...well part of the money Dak is being paid is for him to get the best out of the players in the lockeroom...especiall the ones that are supposed to block for him. Tyron Smith is top 10...he has a 2 good years left...but people need to STOP acting like he is the best in the league. In fact, there has been all of this HOF talk...and sorry....I don't see it...HOF based on what?

The LG and C are so bad that it brings the entire foundation of this offense down. Especially against good teams. There is a reason people picked SF to win...and being soft up the middle on BOTH lines is why. And good coaches like Kyle Shanahann went to work exposing it over and over and over....

Zeke used to be top 3 in the NFL...he is beat up and is barely serviceable. His contract is what it is at this point. He should not carry the ball more than 15 times a game...especially if you want him to last the season and 3 or 4 games in the playoffs. Pollard is not enough either. The RB position needs to be re-thought in Dallas. With 17 games and lack of a 1st round bye...you have to think 3 RBs. And you cannot have 3 RBs if one of your RB is the highest paid in the NFL.

Dak is what he is. His ceiling is Russell Wilson. That is good enough to win IF....IF....you have good coaching (Pete Carroll)...good defense (Legion of Boom) and a solid running game (Marshawn Lynch). Mike McCarthy is NOTHING as a head coach if you ask me. Our defense is not close to being Legion of Boom (not nearly physical enough)....and Zeke is a shell of himself. If this is what we need to win with Dak...we are a LOT farther away than people think. Especially since it is clear we are going to run it back with MM. Piling up stats against the NFC East and other losing teams tricked us into thinking we were better than we were.

Postseason represents the best coaches and gameplans in the NFL. We don't have enough of either to win 4 consecutive games. Too undisciplined. Too soft. And a waste at head coach.

Excellent post.

And this franchise is saddled with a GM who loves his players because he picked them-instead of looking at them critically each year and considering if they’re still really that good.

 

[CTcowboy203]

I agree with a lot of it but not on cooper. Ceedee has bad drops and needs to fix it but he’s damn good. I think both these guys weren’t used right.

 

[Bobhaze]

I agree with a lot of it but not on cooper. Ceedee has bad drops and needs to fix it but he’s damn good. I think both these guys weren’t used right.

Ok I can understand that. But what has having Cooper on this roster translated to at $20 million a year? We didn’t even win a playoff game.

 

[75boyz]

Overrating leads to overpaying in Dallas. And overpaying leads to CAP problems and mediocre performance.

But I agree about the WR, OL, and RBs. I mean the Rams have OBJ, Kupp, and Woods when he is healthy. That is a far more scary WRs group than what the Cowboys have.

IMO, Cooper was always overrated. So much so it wound up costing the Cowboys a 1st round draft pick when no other team would offer more than a 2nd. Looking at his stats for Oakland he was never worth a 1st round pick based on his performances on the field. He is a good receiver, not a great receiver but now the Cowboys are paying great receiver money for him.

Zeke was obviously slipping before Jerry gave him a new contract. Your eyes were not deceiving you when you watch Zeke run. He was actually getting slower. And now the whole world is wondering why Pollard does not get more carries for the Cowboys but the Cowboys still stubbornly hand the ball to Zeke most of the time, when they decide to hand the ball off at all.

Which brings me to Dak. Overrating Dak has Moore calling 38 passes a game and <20 runs. What happened to the balance that made this offense great in the first half of the year?

And this isn't just a problem with the offense. They have the same problem on defense. That's how DLaw wound up getting paid $21 million. I like DLaw. He is a good, even very good, DE who makes the defense better. But he is not near the top DEs in the league to be getting paid what Jerry paid him.

Some of this is Jerry thinking that whoever he draft must be great. Some is just the usual Dallas Cowboys hype. But I do agree it holds this team back from making the necessary personnel decisions to become a championship team.

Yep, your first sentence here explains it all.
I gave my own longer post as well but your first sentence sums it up nicely.

 

[75boyz]

Great post. I would be OK with Coopers mediocre numbers if it was opening up the game for other playmakers...but we do not have anybody that could take a 10 yard pass like Tyrek Hill did and take it to the house 60+ yards

Cee Dee Lamb is a 1st round pick....he should not need the "presence" of an Amari Cooper to "get off". He is not fast. His mythical legendary YAC is a reputation he earned against college kids...have not seen it at the pros. And he has a lot of drops. I would take Deebo Samules over him any day.

I think La'el Collins has the physical traits to be top 5 at his postion...just not the commitment, focus and discipline. I think I read him and Dak are pretty close of the field...well part of the money Dak is being paid is for him to get the best out of the players in the lockeroom...especiall the ones that are supposed to block for him. Tyron Smith is top 10...he has a 2 good years left...but people need to STOP acting like he is the best in the league. In fact, there has been all of this HOF talk...and sorry....I don't see it...HOF based on what?

The LG and C are so bad that it brings the entire foundation of this offense down. Especially against good teams. There is a reason people picked SF to win...and being soft up the middle on BOTH lines is why. And good coaches like Kyle Shanahann went to work exposing it over and over and over....

Zeke used to be top 3 in the NFL...he is beat up and is barely serviceable. His contract is what it is at this point. He should not carry the ball more than 15 times a game...especially if you want him to last the season and 3 or 4 games in the playoffs. Pollard is not enough either. The RB position needs to be re-thought in Dallas. With 17 games and lack of a 1st round bye...you have to think 3 RBs. And you cannot have 3 RBs if one of your RB is the highest paid in the NFL.

Dak is what he is. His ceiling is Russell Wilson. That is good enough to win IF....IF....you have good coaching (Pete Carroll)...good defense (Legion of Boom) and a solid running game (Marshawn Lynch). Mike McCarthy is NOTHING as a head coach if you ask me. Our defense is not close to being Legion of Boom (not nearly physical enough)....and Zeke is a shell of himself. If this is what we need to win with Dak...we are a LOT farther away than people think. Especially since it is clear we are going to run it back with MM. Piling up stats against the NFC East and other losing teams tricked us into thinking we were better than we were.

Postseason represents the best coaches and gameplans in the NFL. We don't have enough of either to win 4 consecutive games. Too undisciplined. Too soft. And a waste at head coach.

Dude,
This is a multi-like standing ovation golf clap agreement from me here.

Fantastic assessment of current player production, comparison examples and actual coaching deficiencies.

You really provided an accurate picture of the current state of this team.

Again, great job.

 

[Whirlwin]

He had all day because he uses his mobility to create time and some very good pocket awareness.

He choked. LMAO he had all day because of the offensive line. But he had nowhere to throw the ball. Prescott has half the time with the same issue. But he sucks LMAO

 

[America's Cowboy]

It has been said for far too long that the Cowboys have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL. It’s especially been said by Jerry and Stephen. I’m not here to say that this team is not talented. We certainly have some talent.

But I’m of the opinion that talent should be measured by what it accomplishes for your team. Whatever level of talent we have had the last 5 years has translated into 1 wild card playoff win under two different coaching staffs. TALENT SHOULD BE MEASURED BY THE RESULTS IT GIVES. If all we get is an occasional divisional “title” is that great?

We fans love our team and our players. But sometimes we have to take off the fan glasses and see things as they really are.

To avoid having a super long post, here are just some examples on offense of overrated talent here:

• WR’S and TE’s one of the best groups in the NFL? Let’s tap the brakes.
  • Amari Cooper- he’s certainly a talented receiver. And he’s paid like it. But the last 9 games of the season he avg about 45 yds per game. Why do we think paying Cooper all that money “is worth it”? What did it translate to? He’s good but he’s not consistent to pay him top dollar IMO.
  • Cedee Lamb had a statistically good year last year, but his drops are nearly league leading. He gets lazy at times and had several lapses in focus in the playoff game against the niners that cost us dearly. He needs to improve a lot to be called “great”.
  • Michael Gallup missed most of the season with an injury and was re-injured at the end of the season. I love Gallup, but he wasn’t there for most of the season. Probably gone anyway.
  • Dalton Schultz- a good but not great TE who will probably command more in FA than we can pay. Blake Jarwin? Unless we’re playing the giants, he’s a spare.
• OL- too many TV people and PFF people act like this is a top 5 OL. It isn’t.
  • Tyron Smith- the once greatest player on this team has turned into a constant injury waiting to happen. He’s missed a whopping 32 games the last 5 seasons, and hasn’t played a full season since 2015. We need to stop pretending this is working.
  • Tyler Biadz- gets manhandled on a regular basis. Thankfully, Connor “Holding” Williams will be gone next year. But Biadz either needs more help if he’s going stay at C.
  • La’El Collins- like Smith has missed a ton of games- some to injury some to his own stupidity. But he’s not been that great at RT. Maybe he could play LG again as he did back in 2016. But he either needs to get better or we say adios.
  • Zack Martin is still great. But he alone doesn’t make this a great OL.
• RB and QB-
  • Zeke Elliott- the highest paid RB in the league is killing the cap, barely producing any kind of reliable yardage and just looks old and slow. Tony Pollard should have had more snaps last year but the Jones family sees him as a family member not a football player on their team. He needs to be released.
    
  • Dak- I’m not a Dak “hater”. I still think he’s capable of leading this team to a SB. Lots of QBs with less talent have already done it. But he’s never going to be a “carry the team on his back” kind of QB.

Bottom line Cowboys fans: This offense’s talent is seriously overrated. We need to seriously upgrade the OL, shave some cap space off the WR and RB positions and draft some guys that can help immediately. Dak’s contract will be restructured.

BH, I agreed with everything you said, except for Dak. I keep hearing so many say that Dak does not have the potential to carry this team. Well, what do you call a QB who has passed for the most 400+ yard games (9) since 2016 throughout the whole NFL?

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-games-of-400-yards-passing-by-a-qb-since-2016

 

[Whirlwin]

You’re wrong again. Denver played cover two. Just like Cincinnati did the Kansas City.

 

[Whirlwin]

Go back and watch the game. I mean really watch the game. Not just bull**** with your friends with the beer in your hand. Cover two is 8 men in the backfield .

 

[kskboys]

I rate talent very simply- what has it given us in playoff results?

For example- if the US Olympic track team was talked about as one of the “most talented” in the the Olympics, yet when it came to winning medals, won ZERO- would it still be considered the “most talented”?

I continually amazing how so many just cannot rate our own players.

 

[kskboys]

By those that do not believe talent is as talent does? Yes. They often use potential and talent interchangeably.

Most, including Jerry Jones, do not understand talent at the NFL level. Speed and size are no good w/o lateral agility and instincts.

 

[Miguelitomama]

It has been said for far too long that the Cowboys have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL. It’s especially been said by Jerry and Stephen. I’m not here to say that this team is not talented. We certainly have some talent.

But I’m of the opinion that talent should be measured by what it accomplishes for your team. Whatever level of talent we have had the last 5 years has translated into 1 wild card playoff win under two different coaching staffs. TALENT SHOULD BE MEASURED BY THE RESULTS IT GIVES. If all we get is an occasional divisional “title” is that great?

We fans love our team and our players. But sometimes we have to take off the fan glasses and see things as they really are.

To avoid having a super long post, here are just some examples on offense of overrated talent here:

• WR’S and TE’s one of the best groups in the NFL? Let’s tap the brakes.
  • Amari Cooper- he’s certainly a talented receiver. And he’s paid like it. But the last 9 games of the season he avg about 45 yds per game. Why do we think paying Cooper all that money “is worth it”? What did it translate to? He’s good but he’s not consistent to pay him top dollar IMO.
  • Cedee Lamb had a statistically good year last year, but his drops are nearly league leading. He gets lazy at times and had several lapses in focus in the playoff game against the niners that cost us dearly. He needs to improve a lot to be called “great”.
  • Michael Gallup missed most of the season with an injury and was re-injured at the end of the season. I love Gallup, but he wasn’t there for most of the season. Probably gone anyway.
  • Dalton Schultz- a good but not great TE who will probably command more in FA than we can pay. Blake Jarwin? Unless we’re playing the giants, he’s a spare.
• OL- too many TV people and PFF people act like this is a top 5 OL. It isn’t.
  • Tyron Smith- the once greatest player on this team has turned into a constant injury waiting to happen. He’s missed a whopping 32 games the last 5 seasons, and hasn’t played a full season since 2015. We need to stop pretending this is working.
  • Tyler Biadz- gets manhandled on a regular basis. Thankfully, Connor “Holding” Williams will be gone next year. But Biadz either needs more help if he’s going stay at C.
  • La’El Collins- like Smith has missed a ton of games- some to injury some to his own stupidity. But he’s not been that great at RT. Maybe he could play LG again as he did back in 2016. But he either needs to get better or we say adios.
  • Zack Martin is still great. But he alone doesn’t make this a great OL.
• RB and QB-
  • Zeke Elliott- the highest paid RB in the league is killing the cap, barely producing any kind of reliable yardage and just looks old and slow. Tony Pollard should have had more snaps last year but the Jones family sees him as a family member not a football player on their team. He needs to be released.
    
  • Dak- I’m not a Dak “hater”. I still think he’s capable of leading this team to a SB. Lots of QBs with less talent have already done it. But he’s never going to be a “carry the team on his back” kind of QB.

Bottom line Cowboys fans: This offense’s talent is seriously overrated. We need to seriously upgrade the OL, shave some cap space off the WR and RB positions and draft some guys that can help immediately. Dak’s contract will be restructured.

A nice analysis. This offensive line needs a serious overhaul.

The big problem is Zeke's contract. We're stuck with it and he's really a fullback at this point. Pollard barely touched the ball during the SF game... Of course, that was one of the most unimaginative offensive schemes we could have come up with against a team that is known for stout run defense.

 

[Miguelitomama]

Overrating leads to overpaying in Dallas. And overpaying leads to CAP problems and mediocre performance.

But I agree about the WR, OL, and RBs. I mean the Rams have OBJ, Kupp, and Woods when he is healthy. That is a far more scary WRs group than what the Cowboys have.

IMO, Cooper was always overrated. So much so it wound up costing the Cowboys a 1st round draft pick when no other team would offer more than a 2nd. Looking at his stats for Oakland he was never worth a 1st round pick based on his performances on the field. He is a good receiver, not a great receiver but now the Cowboys are paying great receiver money for him.

Zeke was obviously slipping before Jerry gave him a new contract. Your eyes were not deceiving you when you watch Zeke run. He was actually getting slower. And now the whole world is wondering why Pollard does not get more carries for the Cowboys but the Cowboys still stubbornly hand the ball to Zeke most of the time, when they decide to hand the ball off at all.

Which brings me to Dak. Overrating Dak has Moore calling 38 passes a game and <20 runs. What happened to the balance that made this offense great in the first half of the year?

And this isn't just a problem with the offense. They have the same problem on defense. That's how DLaw wound up getting paid $21 million. I like DLaw. He is a good, even very good, DE who makes the defense better. But he is not near the top DEs in the league to be getting paid what Jerry paid him.

Some of this is Jerry thinking that whoever he draft must be great. Some is just the usual Dallas Cowboys hype. But I do agree it holds this team back from making the necessary personnel decisions to become a championship team.

"Which brings me to Dak. Overrating Dak has Moore calling 38 passes a game and <20 runs. What happened to the balance that made this offense great in the first half of the year?"

Was it over-rating Dak or knowing that our running game couldn't get it done. We need balance. Dak was throwing the ball during the first half as well.

 

[TheMightyVanHalen]

I think if Devante Adams and Cooper switched teams, their stats would be reversed. The person throwing the ball has the biggest impact on a receivers performance. Put Cooper Kupp with Dak and his numbers would be pedestrian.

That's because both would have to share the ball more. Adams had more than any one WR we have, but overall, Dak's receivers had more receptions, yards and TDs. I personally think Dak has too many big play options and wants to keep them all happy. That makes him think more and makes him too indecisive.

I could talk hypothetical too but I won't because it's all just BS since it will never be proven true or false.

 

[Miguelitomama]

BH, I agreed with everything you said, except for Dak. I keep hearing so many say that Dak does not have the potential to carry this team. Well, what do you call a QB who has passed for the most 400+ yard games (9) since 2016 throughout the whole NFL?

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-games-of-400-yards-passing-by-a-qb-since-2016

There was a chart I wanted to post here that was referred to by Bob Sturm in The Athletic, a football analyst I really admire. He was writing about Cousins and had a chart of QBs who had come back from deficits of 2 scores or more in the last 10 minutes of games. Dak had more such games than either Brady or Brees. I'm not saying he's Tom Brady for God's sake, but I'm sick of the Dak hate here. It's ridiculous -- which is why I keep his photo on my signature.

 

[RS12]

Interesting what Belichick and Saban have to say about that coaching v talent. Give them the talent every time.

I think it is an excuse used about coaching. Do we think the OLC coaches players to jump the gun or the DLC coached Gregory to lineup offsides or the WRC coaches drops and running sloppy patterns or the TEC can't get the TE to block better?

The difference between the coaching acumen of these men is marginal, they all use the same techniques from the same book of coaching. The difference in the talent levels is much wider than the coaching. Which is why the star rating system is used to grade recruiting classes and why AL, UGA, OU, OSU drive the boat and Clemson did until the recruiting slipped.

The real myth is that coaches can motivate players. They can demotivate them more effectively than motivate them because that comes from within. Take Micah Parsons, Quinn might get some credit for him but not from me. I saw him at Penn State and that guy was already there.

Did the OLC create the first OL to make All Pro as a rookie since 1947 or did Zach Martin arrive ready to go? On the reverse, was the WRC ever able to get Bryant to run the routes and not be the 50/50 beast? No, many coaches tried. They had to work with his natural inclination.

A most interesting comment I've heard from a coach was from Belichick about Lawrence Taylor, he didn't coach him, he modified his defense around him.

Jimmy said the same about coaching vs talent many times.

 

[sunalsorises]

I'd argue the offense is very talented but not consistent. They have 5 games where they scored over 40 and 2 of them were over 50. The skill positions all have flashes. Unfortunately, they can also disappear. I think players are too easily satisfied in Dallas and that's the problem. Somehow, though, Dan Quinn seemed to keep his defense hungry so maybe there is hope.

 

[aikemirv]

So I just want to know. When Dak passes for over 300 yards are the WR's talented? When he can't find them are they then not talented? Serious question really. I mean either our receivers can get open or they can't. They can find the openings in the D or they can't. Daks job to get it to them. Without looking at all tape against the teams we were poor against I can't really tell you. Some of it could be KM not adjusting to the defenses with the correct plays ( as shown in the Kurt Warner analysis). Some of it could be Dak not calling the right plays against a defense but I really doubt it is the talent of the WR's that is the problem here

 

[Zekeats]

It has been said for far too long that the Cowboys have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL. It’s especially been said by Jerry and Stephen. I’m not here to say that this team is not talented. We certainly have some talent.

But I’m of the opinion that talent should be measured by what it accomplishes for your team. Whatever level of talent we have had the last 5 years has translated into 1 wild card playoff win under two different coaching staffs. TALENT SHOULD BE MEASURED BY THE RESULTS IT GIVES. If all we get is an occasional divisional “title” is that great?

We fans love our team and our players. But sometimes we have to take off the fan glasses and see things as they really are.

To avoid having a super long post, here are just some examples on offense of overrated talent here:

• WR’S and TE’s one of the best groups in the NFL? Let’s tap the brakes.
  • Amari Cooper- he’s certainly a talented receiver. And he’s paid like it. But the last 9 games of the season he avg about 45 yds per game. Why do we think paying Cooper all that money “is worth it”? What did it translate to? He’s good but he’s not consistent to pay him top dollar IMO.
  • Cedee Lamb had a statistically good year last year, but his drops are nearly league leading. He gets lazy at times and had several lapses in focus in the playoff game against the niners that cost us dearly. He needs to improve a lot to be called “great”.
  • Michael Gallup missed most of the season with an injury and was re-injured at the end of the season. I love Gallup, but he wasn’t there for most of the season. Probably gone anyway.
  • Dalton Schultz- a good but not great TE who will probably command more in FA than we can pay. Blake Jarwin? Unless we’re playing the giants, he’s a spare.
• OL- too many TV people and PFF people act like this is a top 5 OL. It isn’t.
  • Tyron Smith- the once greatest player on this team has turned into a constant injury waiting to happen. He’s missed a whopping 32 games the last 5 seasons, and hasn’t played a full season since 2015. We need to stop pretending this is working.
  • Tyler Biadz- gets manhandled on a regular basis. Thankfully, Connor “Holding” Williams will be gone next year. But Biadz either needs more help if he’s going stay at C.
  • La’El Collins- like Smith has missed a ton of games- some to injury some to his own stupidity. But he’s not been that great at RT. Maybe he could play LG again as he did back in 2016. But he either needs to get better or we say adios.
  • Zack Martin is still great. But he alone doesn’t make this a great OL.
• RB and QB-
  • Zeke Elliott- the highest paid RB in the league is killing the cap, barely producing any kind of reliable yardage and just looks old and slow. Tony Pollard should have had more snaps last year but the Jones family sees him as a family member not a football player on their team. He needs to be released.
    
  • Dak- I’m not a Dak “hater”. I still think he’s capable of leading this team to a SB. Lots of QBs with less talent have already done it. But he’s never going to be a “carry the team on his back” kind of QB.

Bottom line Cowboys fans: This offense’s talent is seriously overrated. We need to seriously upgrade the OL, shave some cap space off the WR and RB positions and draft some guys that can help immediately. Dak’s contract will be restructured.

Need to stop overrating Dak. The rest is fine.