I'm not saying Dak is better than Mahomes

[kskboys]

He is not. I like Mahomes, but he has flaws. He masks them and makes up for it due to his talent. You'll see him make passes just fine. What you'll rarely if ever see is him step up into the pocket and deliver the ball. The SB they lost to the Bucs is a perfect example. The playoff game against the Bengals is another. He'll choose to take off over buying time in the pocket by stepping up. Sometimes QBs with great mobility have a hard time committing to stepping up. He's one of them. Another you'll see rarely doing that is Kyler Murray.

Yup. Mahomes is a good QB, no one is disputing that, but he's been exposed a bit. We'll see how he does moving forward, as good D's take his strengths away.

 

[Flamma]

it still applies to QBs. there is a cap for 53 players on the team. whomever manages it best and is able to draft and put the best talent (including coaching) on the team, wins.

but ou are right, it was put together to prevent teams like Dallas, washington and SF at the time to stock pile talent becuase they had money. NFL thought, strategically it would be better for the league to have parity and salary cap was the process. for all intent and purposes it has worked as its the most popular league in US. and yes, it was a way to control salaries getting out of hand.

What I meant by not applying to QBs was the dollar value cap hit. At every other position only the best players get top market value. That's not the case with QBs. Gallup isn't getting paid 25M a year. Anthony Brown didn't get top CB money. But extend a rookie QB, it has to be top market value.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

What I meant by not applying to QBs was the dollar value cap hit. At every other position only the best players get top market value. That's not the case with QBs. Gallup isn't getting paid 25M a year. Anthony Brown didn't get top CB money. But extend a rookie QB, it has to be top market value.

Which is dumb, imo.

You should only pay market value for a QB that is worth market value. You don't pay market value just because it's that persons turn to get paid. If you're not a top 5 QB in the NFL when it's your turn to get paid then you shouldn't be paid top 5 money.

If you buy a trailer on the outskirts of a town full of mansions and you pay mansion price for it then you're dumb.

For as good of businessmen as some of these owners seem to be they are horrible when it comes to things like that.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I just wanted to point out how hypocritical it is of you to flat out say "I don't like Zeke" but then get all emotional towards people that believe we need a better QB.

So, you can save your Brady/Montana/Dak (HAHAHAHA) comparisons for someone else.

That's all, no need for you to try and explain yourself.

on the contrary my friend. you are the one who has been over the top emotional about anything Dak related, we have established that 40 times over.....or lest we forget you wanting to delete comments and posts. outright asking mods to do it. yeah, internet is a funny thing, it never forgets.... you mentioned and argued for it several times on this very thread. you outright dominate any Dak related thread with the over the top # of posts and comments. you argue with anyone who does not outright criticize dak, much less flip backwards if anyone says anything slightly positive about Dak. I can literally see smoke coming out of your ears on some of your responses, filled with anger, hatred.

facts are, I am the least emotional person on this topic, or perhaps one of the least emotional people (there is a couple more). I tend to throw out facts as part of the discussion, ask questions to be considered, bring up other side of the coin per se to be considered and discussed and I have seen you flip your top on those simple questions.

and yet again, here we go...you lose your kook again....your feable attempt in trying to bundle mahomes, brady, dak (why do you keep comparing them if you are so against it). your failed logic was I don't like Dak because he is a 4th round pick...so I asked what about Brady and Montana who were 6th and 3rd round picks? is that any type of logic to hate a player? and do you hate anyone drafted from the 4th round and below? is there a draft pick line for you to go from love, to like, to ok to hate?

but I can see how that simple logic just goes over your head, given your emotional attachments to Dak related topics tend to send you into a tizzy

I am sure you didn't read this.

 

[Flamma]

Yup. Mahomes is a good QB, no one is disputing that, but he's been exposed a bit. We'll see how he does moving forward, as good D's take his strengths away.

Yeah. I'll give him a pass against Tampa because they were all over him quick. But there were many times he took off prematurely. The playoff game against the Bengals was a lot more telling. He really looked bad in the second half of that game.

Right now I'd take Burrow over Mahomes. That said, I think Patrick will remedy this going forward. Just my opinion, but I think the dude is a super competitor. Always looking to improve.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

What I meant by not applying to QBs was the dollar value cap hit. At every other position only the best players get top market value. That's not the case with QBs. Gallup isn't getting paid 25M a year. Anthony Brown didn't get top CB money. But extend a rookie QB, it has to be top market value.

extend a rookie QB? which rookie QB?

and its about supply/demand (or perception there of). market value is driven by how the market values a position and the supply of it, in this case players and in specific case QBs. the problem lies in how they are evaluated in the overall picture and if the GMs close their eyes and not see the warts in an attempt to justify their signing. its not complicated. Jones, enamoured with his own draft pick. his ego as part of the equation, made a tactical error and didn't consider all his options. others have made similar mistakes. jerry tends to do it more often.

 

[kskboys]

Yeah. I'll give him a pass against Tampa because they were all over him quick. But there were many times he took off prematurely. The playoff game against the Bengals was a lot more telling. He really looked bad in the second half of that game.

Right now I'd take Burrow over Mahomes. That said, I think Patrick will remedy this going forward. Just my opinion, but I think the dude is a super competitor. Always looking to improve.

Burrow is the closest I've seen to being the new Brady/Montana type, guys who just know. Chockfull of the it factor.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Yeah. I'll give him a pass against Tampa because they were all over him quick. But there were many times he took off prematurely. The playoff game against the Bengals was a lot more telling. He really looked bad in the second half of that game.

Right now I'd take Burrow over Mahomes. That said, I think Patrick will remedy this going forward. Just my opinion, but I think the dude is a super competitor. Always looking to improve.

I still take mahomes, but Burrow has certainly closed the gap.

 

[Flamma]

Which is dumb, imo.

You should only pay market value for a QB that is worth market value. You don't pay market value just because it's that persons turn to get paid. If you're not a top 5 QB in the NFL when it's your turn to get paid then you shouldn't be paid top 5 money.

If you buy a trailer on the outskirts of a town full of mansions and you pay mansion price for it then you're dumb.

For as good of businessmen as some of these owners seem to be they are horrible when it comes to things like that.

I agree 100% which is why I never would have paid Dak market value even though I think he's a good QB. But I'm not paying good the same as really good. But that's how the NFL works right now with QBs.

 

[kskboys]

I agree 100% which is why I never would have paid Dak market value even though I think he's a good QB. But I'm not paying good the same as really good. But that's how the NFL works right now with QBs.

Very strange how they got here.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

What I meant by not applying to QBs was the dollar value cap hit. At every other position only the best players get top market value. That's not the case with QBs. Gallup isn't getting paid 25M a year. Anthony Brown didn't get top CB money. But extend a rookie QB, it has to be top market value.

Gallup clearly is not a top 25 WR in the league. although Cooper was maybe at best a top 15, he got paid top 2. so it happens in other positions as well. the salaries for all positions goes up, more so for QBs and more out of whack per se. but you also have to look at it differently. one year it maybe top 5, next year, with more contracts its top 10. and so it goes. you can't just measure it based on where it is, was the first year of the contract. you kind of compare it in the lifetime of the contract as more contracts are handed out.

 

[Flamma]

extend a rookie QB? which rookie QB?

and its about supply/demand (or perception there of). market value is driven by how the market values a position and the supply of it, in this case players and in specific case QBs. the problem lies in how they are evaluated in the overall picture and if the GMs close their eyes and not see the warts in an attempt to justify their signing. its not complicated. Jones, enamoured with his own draft pick. his ego as part of the equation, made a tactical error and didn't consider all his options. others have made similar mistakes. jerry tends to do it more often.

I agree, it is supply driven. That's why good QBs that get extended after their rookie contract get paid similar to great QBs. I'm not arguing that. I'm saying you're at a disadvantage when you choose to do that. Like paying Corvette money for a Camaro.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I am very proud of everyone on this thread who worked so hard and posted so many comments to get this to over 40 pages so quickly. give yourself a pat on the back

 

[Flamma]

Gallup clearly is not a top 25 WR in the league. although Cooper was maybe at best a top 15, he got paid top 2. so it happens in other positions as well. the salaries for all positions goes up, more so for QBs and more out of whack per se. but you also have to look at it differently. one year it maybe top 5, next year, with more contracts its top 10. and so it goes. you can't just measure it based on where it is, was the first year of the contract. you kind of compare it in the lifetime of the contract as more contracts are handed out.

Right. Dak is clearly not Patrick Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers, yet he got similar money. It doesn't matter when it comes to QBs.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I agree, it is supply driven. That's why good QBs that get extended after their rookie contract get paid similar to great QBs. I'm not arguing that. I'm saying you're at a disadvantage when you choose to do that. Like paying Corvette money for a Camaro.

true. but if you hit on one, you are golden for years, by the same token if you miss you take a big hit after several years. despite all the arguments, its the cheapest path to a superbowl since QB is the most impactful and critical position. can you go the dilfer route? yes. but it would take several other HOF type super stars on your team to get it done and they cost several contracts that in totality are larger than a QB contract. that's why teams are willing to take the risk.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I don't like Zeke. I don't like taking RBs in top 20. I don't like paying them a second large contract that has hampered us from signing FAs and I don't like the fact that because of his contract he gets carries and starts when he was clearly injured. RBs are dime a dozen, you never hand them a second large contract, much less the largest contract ever. zeke is on the decline and has been since he got his second contract after holding out TWO years before his contract was up.

yes, call me a zeke hater. I don't mind. I am not sensitive like you being called a Dak hater.

And once again....you are so wrong it couldn't be further form the truth. THIS is the rational you use to bash people. A falsehood to make yourself feel better about it.

The difference? You ARE a zeke hater. So you don't mind it. You have your reasons, that's fine. I have no problem with it.
Me? I am most certainly NOT a "dak hater"...but there you are saying I am. It...is a lie.

The other problem is you use your own criteria to bash zeke...but refuse that same right for people to bash Dak. It's all just opinions. EVEN YOURS!
People think Dak is over-paid, has reached his peak. It's their opinion.

You have yours...let them have theirs. An agreement to respectfully disagree. Grown men SHOULD be able to do this.

But no...attack insult hound. 41+ pages!

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Right. Dak is clearly not Patrick Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers, yet he got similar money. It doesn't matter when it comes to QBs.

the market is not about where you rank against the rest. its what's available. if Rodgers was available at the same time, I am sure his contract would have been larger. in fact he was available and he just got a gynormous contract. so did Allen and he didn't even hit the market. I know, its a tough concept to digest (sorry, don't mean that as an insult so please don't take it that way), but FA is not like the draft where salaries get slotted based on where you are picked (ranked really). its based on supply/demand and how your rank the supply and what the market is willing to pay for that supply.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

And once again....you are so wrong it couldn't be further form the truth. THIS is the rational you use to bash people. A falsehood to make yourself feel better about it.

The difference? You ARE a zeke hater. So you don't mind it. You have your reasons, that's fine. I have no problem with it.
Me? I am most certainly NOT a "dak hater"...but there you are saying I am. It...is a lie.

The other problem is you use your own criteria to bash zeke...but refuse that same right for people to bash Dak. It's all just opinions. EVEN YOURS!
People think Dak is over-paid, has reached his peak. It's their opinion.

You have yours...let them have theirs. An agreement to respectfully disagree. Grown men SHOULD be able to do this.

But no...attack insult hound. 41+ pages!

They cannot wrap their heads around that logic.

They do not realize that what they are doing with Zeke is the same thing they get emotional about when people do it with Dak.

The fact that they can't understand it says a lot, to be honest.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

And once again....you are so wrong it couldn't be further form the truth. THIS is the rational you use to bash people. A falsehood to make yourself feel better about it.

The difference? You ARE a zeke hater. So you don't mind it. You have your reasons, that's fine. I have no problem with it.
Me? I am most certainly NOT a "dak hater"...but there you are saying I am. It...is a lie.

The other problem is you use your own criteria to bash zeke...but refuse that same right for people to bash Dak. It's all just opinions. EVEN YOURS!
People think Dak is over-paid, has reached his peak. It's their opinion.

You have yours...let them have theirs. An agreement to respectfully disagree. Grown men SHOULD be able to do this.

But no...attack insult hound. 41+ pages!

funny. I never objected to being labled a zeke hater. but seemingly you object to being called a Dak hater. and as I said before, If I was really a blinded by love Dak supporter, then just call me that. I don't mind. labels don't bother me as much as it seems they bother you. However, just because I disagree with a comment or opinion, don't go to the extremes and be respectful.

and we can agree to disagree. I never said otherwise. I ask questions on items that need to be part of discussion at hand and when I do ask those questions, giving opportunity to some to explain their view, their immediate response is "you are a dak lover" and blah blah blah...what a chicken shiet cop out. so if we are going to respect each other's opinions, it needs to be both ways. without labels. without personal insults and attacks. just because we don't see eye to eye on a specific item. just because things aren't black/white as some want to make it be. doesn't mean we insult the other.

btw, I don't bash people unless they do. but when they do, I drag their arses through the flames. don't start insults then I don't escalate.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

They cannot wrap their heads around that logic.

They do not realize that what they are doing with Zeke is the same thing they get emotional about when people do it with Dak.

The fact that they can't understand it says a lot, to be honest.

ahh, an emotional dak hater talking about other people being emotional. yeah, you are not emotional. you never want anyone's comments/posts to be deleted because its different than yours. you never insult others intelligence because they hold a differing opinion than yours. you don't post over a 100 times on a thread because you lack emotions about the subject...nahhhh, it couldn't be.

but I appreciate you speaking of me in third person. makes me feel special. ....