Similar quest mark on offense, have they really improved?

[DFWJC]

QB and
oline - I expect every position on the oline to improve.
Booker> Martin2024
Steele another year out from injury.
The rest all young players still on the upward arcs of their careers. Certainly Beebe and Guyton.

But RB?
Dowdle was an average NFL starter last year. None of those guys were. Blue brings juice that Dowdle didn't have, but I don't see a lunch pail RB to replace Dowdle.

That's fine.
We'll see on RB.
I think this group is an upgrade, but maybe you're right.

 

[McKDaddy]

3.Lost Martin- Gained Booker -Net a wash at best.

Really? Booker outta the gate is way better than we've seen from Martin the last few years. Hoffman was way better.

We should be able to run the ball when & how we want for the first time in years (overall line not just Booker).

 

[buybuydandavis]

Really? Booker outta the gate is way better than we've seen from Martin the last few years. Hoffman was way better.

We should be able to run the ball when & how we want for the first time in years (overall line not just Booker).

Martin2024 is about the floor we should find acceptable for spending a 12.

 

[buybuydandavis]

That's fine.
We'll see on RB.
I think this group is an upgrade, but maybe you're right.

I grant, you never know. We've got a lot of warm bodies and maybe we'll hit on one. I didn't think we had anything in Dowdle at this time last year either.

 

[McKDaddy]

oh, I think booker is going to be very good too. but like you said, with the 12th pick you pick an impact player not a RG. you can get good to very good RGs in mid rounds. no team in the past 15 years playing in CCGs has had 3 first round OL men on the team. none of them picked a guard in top 12.

I agree it's not ideal to pick a G this high. If one of the interior D guys who were available turns out to be really good, then yes there will be some buyer remorse as we needed that more.

However, all of the available guys had some questions of their own. Pick them & they don't perform up to expectations, it's still a bad situation. Also, the better defenses in the league can overwhelm average interior players. We need to be able to deploy some power there for anything offensively to have much chance.

As for other teams, the "drafted" players doesn't really tell the full story. Many teams have traded for former first round OL and thus fielded lines with multiple first rounders. Bottom line, teams address the OL by looking for top notch talent regardless of method. Is a lot of the premium focused on the T position? Sure.

 

[McKDaddy]

Martin2024 is about the floor we should find acceptable for spending a 12.

no sir. you could have just plug in practice squad player and gotten that level of play.

#12, you should expect way better than 2024 version.

 

[McKDaddy]

I think guards are going to become more and more important because the league is clearly placing an outsized emphasis on interior pressure. and specifically in our division.

Teams have also realized that many defensive fronts are undersized. If you can overpower them, you can simplify the game.

 

[DFWJC]

I grant, you never know. We've got a lot of warm bodies and maybe we'll hit on one. I didn't think we had anything in Dowdle at this time last year either.

2 years removed from ACL rebuild and only 25, I think Williams alone could be an upgrade...let alone Mafah, Blue and Sanders.

Guess we'll see!

 

[slick325]

2 years removed from ACL rebuild and only 25, I think Williams alone could be an upgrade...let alone Mafah, Blue and Sanders.

Guess we'll see!

I think Williams may end up being better than fans expect. Healthy and behind what i hope is an improved OL could result in a good season for Williams in Dallas.

We shall see.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I agree it's not ideal to pick a G this high. If one of the interior D guys who were available turns out to be really good, then yes there will be some buyer remorse as we needed that more.

However, all of the available guys had some questions of their own. Pick them & they don't perform up to expectations, it's still a bad situation. Also, the better defenses in the league can overwhelm average interior players. We need to be able to deploy some power there for anything offensively to have much chance.

As for other teams, the "drafted" players doesn't really tell the full story. Many teams have traded for former first round OL and thus fielded lines with multiple first rounders. Bottom line, teams address the OL by looking for top notch talent regardless of method. Is a lot of the premium focused on the T position? Sure.

sorry, but not sure I agree. its like most people are trying to make themselves feel good about the pick. you don't win because of OG. you win with defense and you invest and reinvest in defense. you can't be gun shy and for Shotty to think, I am going to have a physical OL, then get physical OL man in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round. evaluate talent. pull the picture together. pull the roster together. adjust your vision. imagine if we spent the last two first round picks on defensive players. we all saw what happened against Balt, NO, Detroit and that was with all the starters. we succeeded against Giants and Panthers and so on.

again, look at the teams in past 15 years of CCG. trades and all and tell me which team had 2 first round OL men on the team. NONE. at most it was two. many didn't have any. when we suck like we do. when we pick players like Mazi and Charlton and Joseph and Sam Williams and the what not, then that tells me they can't evaluate talent. and they go to their comfort zone of picking OL men. that's the one area dallas does well in draft and UDFA....

 

[blueblood70]

Quit pointing out facts and being negative. Did you not see the thread by blueblood stating we're going to the NFC championship?

Because the facts are wrong this isn't last year this is not the same coaching staff the same players it's not going to be the same schedule we're not going to meet the same teams in the same situations this whole season is going to be different than last year and acting like our offensive defense are going to be worse is insane so if you want to be insane I posted some insane posts you get that the exaggerations can work both ways you damn right I posted that and I'll post more bring it on my talk to text game is large in here...

So later on I'll be back once I catch up on work and we can have these debates on how ridiculous it is to bring up last year the year before or 15 years ago when this isn't anywhere close to the same teams every year there's at least 17% reward turnover in players alone and now our whole entire coaching staff was replaced this is a different team it's going to be a different situation but if you don't think that the injuries were the major part of our failure last year then you weren't paying attention and you don't know ball if we have a relatively healthy team we are going to be improved on every level and if our coaching staff can at least be a notch better than a coaching staff we've had the last three years we are going to be better so yeah we are going to be better I'm allowed to say that when the exaggerations are saying it's a fact it's not a fact you don't know how these new players are going to react and play in this new scheme so your facts are opinions they're not facts what happened last year is not this year these players won't be the same even the returning players won't play the same because they're playing on different offense and defense they're playing with a different scheme a different level of coaching no one knows what's going to happen is my point so saying these are facts when they're not even close to factual you're guessing you're using hyperbole and rhetoric to support a narrative because you didn't get an offseason that you wanted so the fan base is predicting that we're going to be worse how is that any better than me predicting we're going to be better with a record amount of injuries now we get those players back slowly a different offseason a different coaching staff and somehow we're going to be worse no I say we're going to be better will be better than 7 WINS..

book it

 

[McKDaddy]

sorry, but not sure I agree. its like most people are trying to make themselves feel good about the pick. you don't win because of OG. you win with defense and you invest and reinvest in defense. you can't be gun shy and for Shotty to think, I am going to have a physical OL, then get physical OL man in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round. evaluate talent. pull the picture together. pull the roster together. adjust your vision. imagine if we spent the last two first round picks on defensive players. we all saw what happened against Balt, NO, Detroit and that was with all the starters. we succeeded against Giants and Panthers and so on.

again, look at the teams in past 15 years of CCG. trades and all and tell me which team had 2 first round OL men on the team. NONE. at most it was two. many didn't have any. when we suck like we do. when we pick players like Mazi and Charlton and Joseph and Sam Williams and the what not, then that tells me they can't evaluate talent. and they go to their comfort zone of picking OL men. that's the one area dallas does well in draft and UDFA....

I am on record, for years, saying that interior DL was our top weakness. But I also believe you need to hit with picks that high. Do I believe he was was "as sure a pick" as you could take at that point? Yeah, I lean that way.
As I said, I wasn't completely sold on the DL options. Ideally, we could have slid back to early 20's and got player I felt more confident the talent & pick # matched up ..... but alas, the board just didn't fall that way this year.

I have a feeling that Booker will be good enough that folks will forget about draft position and just think of him as a great pick a few years down the road.

 

[DFWJC]

Rico is a better back than anyone on the roster right now

Don't think so, but guess well see

No use arguing theoreticals

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I am on record, for years, saying that interior DL was our top weakness. But I also believe you need to hit with picks that high. Do I believe he was was "as sure a pick" as you could take at that point? Yeah, I lean that way.
As I said, I wasn't completely sold on the DL options. Ideally, we could have slid back to early 20's and got player I felt more confident the talent & pick # matched up ..... but alas, the board just didn't fall that way this year.

I have a feeling that Booker will be good enough that folks will forget about draft position and just think of him as a great pick a few years down the road.

you can't just look at one year alone in a silo. you have to look at trends, given with trends, year over year you build a team and a roster. again, this is the 3rd first round OL pick. 12th pick of the draft. it remains to be seen how the defenders drafted will do, but 12th pick of a draft is players like davis and parson. not a RG

 

[McKDaddy]

you can't just look at one year alone in a silo. you have to look at trends, given with trends, year over year you build a team and a roster. again, this is the 3rd first round OL pick. 12th pick of the draft. it remains to be seen how the defenders drafted will do, but 12th pick of a draft is players like davis and parson. not a RG

The decision to draft him at #12 was a silo though. Only dependent on the talent available this year & the resulting unwillingness of teams to trade up. They had to make a decision within those parameters. Doesn't matter what the norm or trends suggest. If you look at other teams picks during that stretch of the draft, they can all be questioned if the "certainty" of performance matched the historical standard of the draft slot. It's not unique to ours.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The decision to draft him at #12 was a silo though. Only dependent on the talent available this year & the resulting unwillingness of teams to trade up. They had to make a decision within those parameters. Doesn't matter what the norm or trends suggest. If you look at other teams picks during that stretch of the draft, they can all be questioned if the "certainty" of performance matched the historical standard of the draft slot. It's not unique to ours.

well, folks want to dismiss previous years and look at everything in silo. so if last year we drafted a Tackle, then lets draft a tackle this year too because its the best player on the board, and if next year same thing happens lets just draft another tackle....should we look in the 2026 silo when the time comes and if the best player, best OL man is a guard and then draft another guard, trends and previous picks be damned!!

so yeah, trends and past matter. matter specifically on how you go about building a roster and a team.

this one year, silo is a spin and excusing the poor drafting of the cowboys. facts are we could have picked a guard in lower rounds, maybe 3rd. what would be the impact of drop in play and ability for a RG from 1st round to 3rd round?

everyone is assuming that Booker is a future HOF (based on what I read) and all these other player have question marks and will not do well...essentially saying we can't evaluate talent, so we played it safe and drafted a guard....which in fact if that's the case, then speaks volumes about Cowboys incompetence.
there was a reason Parsons dropped to 11. and davis to 12. yet, we see their impact. we saw Philly destroy KC and Mahomes.

so in roster building, was RG the highest need and most impactful position we needed to pick at 12, a very premium draft pick.

in fact I would have picked Warren over Booker, because Warren could be a Kelce, Kittle type player specially looking ahead with Ferguson at the end of his contract and becoming a FA.
now, without googling, tell me who the RG is with KC and SF? both of whom have played in recent superbowls and CCGs. but I am sure the response will be Warren had question marks.

 

[75boyz]

sorry, but not sure I agree. its like most people are trying to make themselves feel good about the pick. you don't win because of OG. you win with defense and you invest and reinvest in defense. you can't be gun shy and for Shotty to think, I am going to have a physical OL, then get physical OL man in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round. evaluate talent. pull the picture together. pull the roster together. adjust your vision. imagine if we spent the last two first round picks on defensive players. we all saw what happened against Balt, NO, Detroit and that was with all the starters. we succeeded against Giants and Panthers and so on.

again, look at the teams in past 15 years of CCG. trades and all and tell me which team had 2 first round OL men on the team. NONE. at most it was two. many didn't have any. when we suck like we do. when we pick players like Mazi and Charlton and Joseph and Sam Williams and the what not, then that tells me they can't evaluate talent. and they go to their comfort zone of picking OL men. that's the one area dallas does well in draft and UDFA....

Yeah,
you couldn't be more correct again brother,spot on.
A comfort pick as much as anything because of the inability to scout d linemen accurately.
And again, the pick should have been Grant for the number one weakness to have been addressed.
And as if it hasnt already been discussed ad nauseum, the next 2 impact positions needed were an upgrade to both the WR and RB rooms.

Guard didn't even make the list as McKDaddy himself has already said Hoffman did just fine, and they already had Bass and 3 other OG FA acquisitions.
Booker's value and especially at 12, is absolutely negligible based on the resources already on the roster.
Sorry, I kinda just repeated what you've been saying over and over.
Just adding my 2 cents.

Booker hopes to achieve what Martin once was.

 

[CyberB0b]

Not sure how good they'll be, but the offense will be better than in 2024

QB: Prescott > Rush (see 2023 vs 2024)
RB: Wiliams/Sanders/Blue/Mafah >> 2024
Oline: Booker is a great addition and Guyton should improve from rookie year

Dak is really a huge question mark. Aging QB with multiple, severe lower body injuries isn’t good.

 

[Creeper]

I think the offense has improved. Getting Dak back will help is he plays like Dak prior to 2024. Before you Dak haters start banging out your nasty replies, I am only comparing last year's offense to this year's offense. I am not in any way comparing it to the rest of the league so take a valium and save your energy.

I think at the end of 2024 the offensive line was playing better. Steele was definitely improved, and I hate to say it, but Martin coming out also helped. HE was injured and it effected his play, no doubt.

But, for this offense to be good a few things need to fall in Dallas's favor. Dak has to be better than he was in 2024. Guyton has to improve over his 2024 performance. Beebe needs to get better at C, and Booker has to at least hold his own.

Then Tolbert or Mingo, I claim it has to be Mingo, has to step up and be a decent WR2.

Then Ferguson has to get back to his pre-2024 caliber. Schoonmaker needs to step up, or if not him then one of the other young TEs.

Then one of the RBs has to emerge as a quality RB1.

If all that happens this offense can be pretty good, but that's a lot to ask - and I didn't even get to them saying healthy.

 

[75boyz]

I think the offense has improved. Getting Dak back will help is he plays like Dak prior to 2024. Before you Dak haters start banging out your nasty replies, I am only comparing last year's offense to this year's offense. I am not in any way comparing it to the rest of the league so take a valium and save your energy.

I think at the end of 2024 the offensive line was playing better. Steele was definitely improved, and I hate to say it, but Martin coming out also helped. HE was injured and it effected his play, no doubt.

But, for this offense to be good a few things need to fall in Dallas's favor. Dak has to be better than he was in 2024. Guyton has to improve over his 2024 performance. Beebe needs to get better at C, and Booker has to at least hold his own.

Then Tolbert or Mingo, I claim it has to be Mingo, has to step up and be a decent WR2.

Then Ferguson has to get back to his pre-2024 caliber. Schoonmaker needs to step up, or if not him then one of the other young TEs.

Then one of the RBs has to emerge as a quality RB1.

If all that happens this offense can be pretty good, but that's a lot to ask - and I didn't even get to them saying healthy.

Yep.
You pointed to a number of IFs that I agree, need to happen for improvement.
I just dont believe even half of them can, lol.