Now you’re arguing a different debate. This has become a question of legacy vs individual metric. You’re then arguing Eli needs to be up there next to Staubach. Jim Plunkett should be ahead of Favre, and Flacco needs to boot Marino off the list. This would then be about the legacy of the players, not who they were as individual performers.
Do you know what the best word in the English language is? For me, it’s “context.” Context makes everything matter; I mean literally, by definition, without context nothing can matter. Why do you need to drink water? You never do. Give up water. Without the context of what it does for you, it’s irrelevant. Context matters everywhere, all the time. For Rodgers vs Marino, it’s the context of when they played, who they played, how they played.
Pro Bowls: Who were the most prolific QBs of the last 15 years? Brady, AFC. Manning, AFC. Rivers, AFC. Roethlisberger, AFC. Lamar, AFC. Allen, AFC. Mahomes, AFC. Burrow, AFC. So who was Rodgers beating out when he made those 10 pro bowls? Brees was usually there for one spot, and the contenders for the others were… Prescott, Romo, Wentz, LA Goff… Palmer? Winston? Detroit Stafford? ….Alex Smith? Now do Marino. Who played in the AFC during his tenure? Hall of Famer Joe Montana, Hall of Famer John Elway, Hall of Famer Jim Jelly, NFL MVP Rich Gannon, NFL MVP Steve McNair, Hall of Famer Dan Fouts. Plus Vinny Testaverde who had some monster seasons (and retired top 5 in passing yards, little known fact). The fact that he made any is impressive in itself; but nine in that murderers row?
Now, consider the format of the pro bowl. During Rodgers’ era, it is before the Super Bowl. During Marino’s, it was after. What does this mean? Guys are either forced to opt out due to playing in the SB, or outright choose not to go after just losing in the CCG. Each year there are 4, 5, 6(!) QBs attributed with pro bowl invites. “Wilson is playing in another SB and is skipping the pro bowl? Throw in Rodgers.” With all things considered, Marino making 9 pro bowls in his era is contextually more impressive than 20+ year vet Rodgers making 10 in his era.
Super Bowls - No, Eli is not twice the QB Favre was. While the QB’s role is significant in winning the SB, he still needs the players around him. Rodgers had some studs - his Oline typically consisted of perennial pro bowl studs like David Bakhtiari, Chad Clifton, Brian Bulaga, Jabari Evans. All-Pros along the offense like JJ Nelson and Davante Adams and Jimmy Graham and Eddie Lacy. Defensive Hall of Famers like 2009 DPOY Charles Woodson, Julius Peppers, maybe Hall of Famer Clay Matthews. But that’s what wins Super Bowls. How many All-Pros can you name that Marino played with? How many Hall of Famers can you name off the top of your head? How come every all time QB is attribute to an alltime WR like Manning-Harrison, Rodgers-Adams, Warner-Bruce, Staubach-Pearson, Elway-Sharpe, Montana-Rice, Brady-Moss/Gronk, Marino… Irving Fryar? Mark Duper?
Dan played in the golden age of QBs, and he was arguably the best guy despite typically having the 20th best roster in football. No, he doesn’t have the legacy some of these guys have, but in context, he significantly outperformed his means and his peers.
No, Plunkett would not be ahead of Favre. Plunkett never made a Pro Bowl, not even once. That tells me and it should you, that his team was more instrumental in carrying him than him carrying his team. Favre won far more individual honors than Plunkett.
Eli took his team to two Super Bowls, Staubach took his to four. Does that matter? Of course it does.
Yes, I can tell you the defensive Pro Bowlers the Dolphins had during Marino's tenure since I did the research and found how poorly he played in big games to disprove he had no defense during his time, a total myth.
Zach Thomas 98,99 Hall of Famer
Sam Madison 99
Bob Baumhower 83, 84
John Offerdahl 86, 87, 88, 89, 90
Doug Bettors 83
A.J. Duhe 84
Tim Bowens 98
Jeff Cross 90
Byron Cox 92, 94, 95
Bryan Sochia 88
Offensively, Marino had no shortage of Pro Bowlers around him on offense:
Mark Clayton 5x Pro Bowler,
Mark Duper 3x Pro Bowler,
Dwight Stephenson 5x Pro Bowler Hall of Famer,
Richmond Webb 7x Pro Bowler,
Bob Kuechenberg Pro Bowler in '83,
Ed Newman 2x Pro Bowler during Marino years,
Keith Sims 3x Pro Bowler,
Keith Byars 1x Pro Bowler,
Keith Jackson 1x Pro Bowler,
Irving Fyrar 2x Pro Bowler,
Roy Foster 2x Pro Bowler,
Ferrell Edmunds 2x Pro Bowler
That doesn't look like the 20th best roster. How many fables are you going to keep believing?
Marino played 17 years. You're counting Rodgers first three years when he didn't play at all behind Brett Favre against him! That tells me how biased you are.
Marino may have outpreformed his peers during the regular season, but was a choker of immense proportion in big games. In the regular season, he was good enough to beat the '85 Bears, in the post-season, he couldn't beat the '85 Patriots. AT HOME. IN MIAMI.
I'm not the only one that knows that fact. Check out who was listed as the greatest choker in sports history. Can you handle the truth Marino fan boy? Evidently not.
https://www.rollingstone.com/cultur...s-in-sports-history-108696/dan-marino-109230/
You have no metric with Marino better than Rodgers. NONE. Individually or team. NONE. Except more passing attempts which says a lot too.
