Cowboys are loaded with 3-4 OLB personnel yet they run a 4-3 scheme?

[Cowboyny]

But he can't do that consistently. We will get crushed against the run if we play two of our 3techs plus a small DE like Micah and another Edge on early downs. Our LBers aren't exactly stout either. And if you look at Osa and Thomas they are both a little weaker against the run than they are as pass rushers. We don't have the horses for it. I don't disagree he may want t odd something like that, but he says over and over the first thing you need to do is stop the run and he won't be able to do that and play it that way

Don't disagree, think that will be more against the pass.

 

[Xizor]

Eberflus followed Rob Ryan here. It is not like he doesn't know how to run a 3-4. I for one prefer multiple defenses so hopefully Eberflus adds in a bit of the 3-4.

 

[Rockport]

Agree, but the Joneses love their familiarity, and they liked Eberflus when he was here before. He "knows how things work around here."

This is ridiculous as well as incorrect in every way possible.

 

[CATCH17]

We’re going to be in the Nickel defense the majority of the time.

Base defense doesn’t matter as much.


4-3 vs 3-4 is a thing of the past.

 

[Coogiguy03]

We’re going to be in the Nickel defense the majority of the time.

Base defense doesn’t matter as much.


4-3 vs 3-4 is a thing of the past.

which means get ready for teams to run it down our throats

 

[ColoradoCowboy]

And with Rob Ryan.

Who could forget "The Amoeba Defense"???

 

[CWR]

3-4 OLB's are usually in that 240-265 Range, where 4-3 DE's are in that 285-300 LB range.

Parsons-245
Fowler-267
Sam Williams-260
Kneeland-269
Donovan-248
Wheat-260
Turner-270

Toai-342 is the size of a typical 3-4 NT
Mazi Smith before the weight drop was close to the same weight
Rodgers-346

Osa-280 is your pure 4-3 under tackle
Thomas-295 fits a 3T in a 3-4 alignment

Akingbesote-315 is your ideal 5T, but could also play NT in a 4 man front.

Murray-240 is a big off the ball linebacker in today's game.
Marist-238
Sanborn-234

The Will linebackers are smaller, but those are the ones who the defense tries to keep untouched to make the tackle.

To me it is very strange that outside of Osa, their personnel is more tailored towards a 3-4 alignment then it is a 4-3 Front. Good coaches develop a scheme around their players strengths, not force a circle in a square hole. They have the personnel to effectively play multiple fronts, let's see if Eberflus get more creative then what we used to see under Marinelli. However, he wants his players to play fast and not overthink what to do.

Somewhere along the lines i lost the "enriched text" or whatever option and I can't post pictures. However, looking at Solomon Thomas in mini camps, the dude is a monster.

 

[CATCH17]

which means get ready for teams to run it down our throats

Defenses match offensive personnel.

Most teams use 3 wide as their base set on offense which makes defenses run Nickel.

 

[gtb1943]

This is ridiculous as well as incorrect in every way possible.

in your world maybe; not in the real one

 

[ColoradoCowboy]

The 3-4 isn't about height and weight. Sure, those are part of the equation, but the true KEY to the 3-4 is DECEPTION. And skilled linebackers.

For the 3-4 to work well, ALL four LBs need to be able to stuff the run, rush the passer, AND drop into coverage. Even in Nickel, you have three LBs on the field and one of them rushes. This usually puts the other two LBs in coverage or maintaining their areas of responsibility. On any given play, the offense isn't supposed to know who the fourth rusher is, or who the Mike is. This is what makes it so good.

There is one very simple reason why OUR version of the 3-4 didn't work very well: DeMarcus Ware.
On any pass play that mattered, the opposing offense KNEW who was rushing, so the only deception that we had left was to blitz or not.

Today, we would be in the same situation due to Micah Parsons. He WOULD be the fourth rusher and everyone knows it. So if the main advantage of the 3-4 is deception and that is off the table, what's the reason that you want Parsons further away from the QB?

 

[pansophy]

We’re going to be in the Nickel defense the majority of the time.

Base defense doesn’t matter as much.


4-3 vs 3-4 is a thing of the past.

He wants his d-line to get upfield quickly so we probably have the right guys for what he wants to do

 

[Coogiguy03]

Defenses match offensive personnel.

Most teams use 3 wide as their base set on offense which makes defenses run Nickel.

Good point, but how are they able to find success, and not look like they're a bunch of guys out there that are 132lbs!

 

[Kwyn]

4-3 and 3-4 are outdated terms. Base defenses of 4-3 or 3-4 only end up accounting for 20% of a team’s snaps.

Most teams start off possessions in a 4-2-5.

Media still will talk about 4-3 or 3-4 but those are honestly just sub packages based on specific down and distance.

 

[Kwyn]

I believe the NFL is currently 50% between a 4-3 and 3-4. Challenge is the 3-4 is rarely used in college, so I would assume it is more, difficult to evaluate talent.

Actually, even allowing for the lax “easy” descriptors of “4-3” or “3-4”, it’s more like 65% 4-3.

But, as mentioned before, all but two teams start out a series in a 4-2-5

 

[Jarntt]

How is that different than Dan Quinn?

Quinn wants his DTs to control the gaps. Eberflus is more like the Marinelli penetrating philosophy

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

3-4 OLB's are usually in that 240-265 Range, where 4-3 DE's are in that 285-300 LB range.

Parsons-245
Fowler-267
Sam Williams-260
Kneeland-269
Donovan-248
Wheat-260
Turner-270

Toai-342 is the size of a typical 3-4 NT
Mazi Smith before the weight drop was close to the same weight
Rodgers-346

Osa-280 is your pure 4-3 under tackle
Thomas-295 fits a 3T in a 3-4 alignment

Akingbesote-315 is your ideal 5T, but could also play NT in a 4 man front.

Murray-240 is a big off the ball linebacker in today's game.
Marist-238
Sanborn-234

The Will linebackers are smaller, but those are the ones who the defense tries to keep untouched to make the tackle.

To me it is very strange that outside of Osa, their personnel is more tailored towards a 3-4 alignment then it is a 4-3 Front. Good coaches develop a scheme around their players strengths, not force a circle in a square hole. They have the personnel to effectively play multiple fronts, let's see if Eberflus get more creative then what we used to see under Marinelli. However, he wants his players to play fast and not overthink what to do.

Been.saying it for several years. We need bigger MLBs and a couple of bigger DEs. Osa has the size but the other ones are too light. It's not just about NTs...also a 3-4 DT should be able to be a 2-gap player. Not sure if any of the ones we have can do that. Parsons is better suited as a 3-4 OLB and so is Eze.

 

[Jarntt]

The 3-4 isn't about height and weight. Sure, those are part of the equation, but the true KEY to the 3-4 is DECEPTION. And skilled linebackers.

For the 3-4 to work well, ALL four LBs need to be able to stuff the run, rush the passer, AND drop into coverage. Even in Nickel, you have three LBs on the field and one of them rushes. This usually puts the other two LBs in coverage or maintaining their areas of responsibility. On any given play, the offense isn't supposed to know who the fourth rusher is, or who the Mike is. This is what makes it so good.

There is one very simple reason why OUR version of the 3-4 didn't work very well: DeMarcus Ware.
On any pass play that mattered, the opposing offense KNEW who was rushing, so the only deception that we had left was to blitz or not.

Today, we would be in the same situation due to Micah Parsons. He WOULD be the fourth rusher and everyone knows it. So if the main advantage of the 3-4 is deception and that is off the table, what's the reason that you want Parsons further away from the QB?

But on any pass play that matters we would have 4 DL like all teams in the nickel regardless of whether they run a 4-3 or a 3-4 on early downs

 

[xwalker]

It is far to say 270 range is more the ideal weight. In the 3-4, you want bigger weight lineman. We have Parsons at 240-245 which is very light for the position.

Yes, although the 2 DE positions in the 4-3 are different.

DLaw played the "Base" DE position (often called Strong Side DE). Alignment tight to the line. Similar alignment to 3-4 DE relative to the OT.

Parsons generally plays the "Open" side DE. It's a wider alignment. Similar alignment relative to the OT as a 3-4 OLB.

Charles Haley played Open side DE for the Cowboys. He had played 3-4 OLB for the 49ers. Haley was 250, maybe less.

Tony Tolbert was the Base DE. He was about 270.

Marinelli played guys like Robert Quinn at Open side DE (245 pounds).

The Base DE usually moves to a wider alignment on obvious passing situations.

Not certain how they will use Dante Fowler. He probably "start" but I don't see him and Parsons playing together on run.downs very often.

Kneeland and Payton Turner look like ideal Base DEs.

 

[xwalker]

Quinn wants his DTs to control the gaps. Eberflus is more like the Marinelli penetrating philosophy

They were both very pass rush obsessed.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

This is ridiculous as well as incorrect in every way possible.

Nope.