Cowboys are loaded with 3-4 OLB personnel yet they run a 4-3 scheme?

[xwalker]

It is far to say 270 range is more the ideal weight. In the 3-4, you want bigger weight lineman. We have Parsons at 240-245 which is very light for the position.

Keep in mind that 3-4 teams play a 4-man DL in Nickel. TJ Warr moves to DE in Nickel...

In the modern era teams play about 70% or more snaps in Nickel because offenses play 3 WR sets as their primary alignment.

Parsons started at 4-3 (Really 4-2-5l) LB as a rookie in all but 4 games. He still had 13 sacks.

 

[ColoradoCowboy]

But on any pass play that matters we would have 4 DL like all teams in the nickel regardless of whether they run a 4-3 or a 3-4 on early downs

If you do that, then you are missing point of the 3-4 and should just run a 4-3.

 

[Jarntt]

It is far to say 270 range is more the ideal weight. In the 3-4, you want bigger weight lineman. We have Parsons at 240-245 which is very light for the position.

270 is small for a 3-4 DE

 

[kskboys]

3-4 OLB's are usually in that 240-265 Range, where 4-3 DE's are in that 285-300 LB range.

Parsons-245
Fowler-267
Sam Williams-260
Kneeland-269
Donovan-248
Wheat-260
Turner-270

Toai-342 is the size of a typical 3-4 NT
Mazi Smith before the weight drop was close to the same weight
Rodgers-346

Osa-280 is your pure 4-3 under tackle
Thomas-295 fits a 3T in a 3-4 alignment

Akingbesote-315 is your ideal 5T, but could also play NT in a 4 man front.

Murray-240 is a big off the ball linebacker in today's game.
Marist-238
Sanborn-234

The Will linebackers are smaller, but those are the ones who the defense tries to keep untouched to make the tackle.

To me it is very strange that outside of Osa, their personnel is more tailored towards a 3-4 alignment then it is a 4-3 Front. Good coaches develop a scheme around their players strengths, not force a circle in a square hole. They have the personnel to effectively play multiple fronts, let's see if Eberflus get more creative then what we used to see under Marinelli. However, he wants his players to play fast and not overthink what to do.

We have no NT.

 

[Jarntt]

If you do that, then you are missing point of the 3-4 and should just run a 4-3.

There is no difference in the nickel nowadays just the base D. Regardless of Whether a team runs a 3-4 or a 4-3 on early downs they basically run the same defense in the nickel.

 

[Jarntt]

We have no NT.

I’m still holding out hope we find one. Mazi, last years 7th rounder Rogers, one of this years 7th rounders or even a trade for a guy like Reader or a post roster cut down veteran signing. Someone…anyone!!!

 

[gtb1943]

I’m still holding out hope we find one. Mazi, last years 7th rounder Rogers, one of this years 7th rounders or even a trade for a guy like Reader or a post roster cut down veteran signing. Someone…anyone!!!

a trashcan full of dirt would make a huge difference
but the front office is obsessed with pass rush
as long as that dynamic is in place the odds of us having a real NT that anchors the line is slim
this year our hopes rest on seventh rd picks; which tells you all you need to know

 

[exciter]

3-4 OLB's are usually in that 240-265 Range, where 4-3 DE's are in that 285-300 LB range.

Parsons-245
Fowler-267
Sam Williams-260
Kneeland-269
Donovan-248
Wheat-260
Turner-270

Toai-342 is the size of a typical 3-4 NT
Mazi Smith before the weight drop was close to the same weight
Rodgers-346

Osa-280 is your pure 4-3 under tackle
Thomas-295 fits a 3T in a 3-4 alignment

Akingbesote-315 is your ideal 5T, but could also play NT in a 4 man front.

Murray-240 is a big off the ball linebacker in today's game.
Marist-238
Sanborn-234

The Will linebackers are smaller, but those are the ones who the defense tries to keep untouched to make the tackle.

To me it is very strange that outside of Osa, their personnel is more tailored towards a 3-4 alignment then it is a 4-3 Front. Good coaches develop a scheme around their players strengths, not force a circle in a square hole. They have the personnel to effectively play multiple fronts, let's see if Eberflus get more creative then what we used to see under Marinelli. However, he wants his players to play fast and not overthink what to do.

Fowler has played OLB, he was effective as a rusher when he played at around 260 but was a liability vs run and in coverage. He was ineffective as a rusher 2 and 3.5 sacks when he played heavier.
Sam Williams played 34 5tech in college, who was a liability against the run in large part because he didn’t have the brain power to comprehend coverage responsibilities.
Wheat played 34 OLB in college and didn’t have the short area quickness in coverage nor the instincts vs the run. You don’t compile the sacks he did in the SEC and go undrafted unless there’s some major negatives.
Kneeland is the quintessential 43 strong side end on early downs. He doesn’t have the size to play 5tech nor nothing I’ve seen would indicate he has the short area quickness to play OLB… teams would isolate him in coverage on TEs and RBs and have a field day.
Turner is a 43 strong side end who makes Taco look like an all pro.

Mazi so far hasn’t look like he was physical enough to play 43 1tech, I suspect he’s not going to fair better at nose!
Thomas was originally drafted 3rd overall to be a 34 end in the system Cisco was running at the time and was a major bust. Going back to the 3tech he played in college somewhat rejuvenated his career.
Osa is a quintessential 43 3tech who was just given an 80m contract to play 3tech!
I’m not assuming the 2 rookie 7th rounders can even play. The consensus with one was that he needed to lose weight to be able move laterally and the other was considered a low priority UDFA by most accounts!

 

[CCBoy]

Fowler has played OLB, he was effective as a rusher when he played at around 260 but was a liability vs run and in coverage. He was ineffective as a rusher 2 and 3.5 sacks when he played heavier.
Sam Williams played 34 5tech in college, who was a liability against the run in large part because he didn’t have the brain power to comprehend coverage responsibilities.
Wheat played 34 OLB in college and didn’t have the short area quickness in coverage nor the instincts vs the run. You don’t compile the sacks he did in the SEC and go undrafted unless there’s some major negatives.
Kneeland is the quintessential 43 strong side end on early downs. He doesn’t have the size to play 5tech nor nothing I’ve seen would indicate he has the short area quickness to play OLB… teams would isolate him in coverage on TEs and RBs and have a field day.
Turner is a 43 strong side end who makes Taco look like an all pro.

Mazi so far hasn’t look like he was physical enough to play 43 1tech, I suspect he’s not going to fair better at nose!
Thomas was originally drafted 3rd overall to be a 34 end in the system Cisco was running at the time and was a major bust. Going back to the 3tech he played in college somewhat rejuvenated his career.
Osa is a quintessential 43 3tech who was just given an 80m contract to play 3tech!
I’m not assuming the 2 rookie 7th rounders can even play. The consensus with one was that he needed to lose weight to be able move laterally and the other was considered a low priority UDFA by most accounts!

I'm watching for the UCLA DT to show any life that projects towards an Ellison.

 

[Majic]

Our system of DEF has been proven in recent history not to work and I think will be the main reason we have a failing season. This 'get up field/quick twitch' DEF is not a winning formula. Expect the same discussion to keep cropping up until the media actually ask the Jones family why they won't consider a change in philosophy. Either that or Micah kicks off at some point.
Rinse and repeat next off season

 

[CCBoy]

Our system of DEF has been proven in recent history not to work and I think will be the main reason we have a failing season. This 'get up field/quick twitch' DEF is not a winning formula. Expect the same discussion to keep cropping up until the media actually ask the Jones family why they won't consider a change in philosophy. Either that or Micah kicks off at some point.
Rinse and repeat next off season

The staff on defense was brought in for the current status and changes. Let them have their chance before issuing your failure analysis. Your negative judgement is wrong now and just prejudiced. Give them their chance if you claim to be a fan...3-12 win seasons prior to this team being put together.

 

[CCBoy]

Didn't Dallas switch to a 3-4 during the Parcell years?

They abandoned it before they could get the proper players for it to actually get good.

A 4-3 is a great defense,imho,if you get great players to operate it...there in lies the rub.

Bill Parcells drafted two top defensive ends beyond the outside linebacker in the draft. Two first round picks to start it off with.

 

[CCBoy]

Can't wait for the pads to come on.....

They better start preparations to chew glass!

 

[CCBoy]

I think Eberflus wants to play 2 3T's most of the time rather than a traditional 4-3 1T. He wants his DT's to fire off the snap and get up the field quickly. A player like Mazi Smith is going to be a very poor fit in his system. Wouldn't surprise me if Thomas plays a bigger role then Smith in this scheme.

Equal time in my eyes.

 

[Starforever]

While I understand the defensive principles quoted, none of us actually know what the defense will yield until the season starts. The gloom and doom is deafening.

 

[shabazz]

While I understand the defensive principles quoted, none of us actually know what the defense will yield until the season starts. The gloom and doom is deafening.

No reason to become gloomy at all.

Last season we were ranked 30th against run but now that we've added all these top proven NFL starters through FA and the draft to the defense, we should all assume we will now be among the better defenses in the league.

I'm expecting a complete 180 and the sky's the limit!

 

[thunderpimp91]

Only a few teams these days that run a true 3-4. Its difficult to pull off with the amount of nickel/dime packages that are ran these days. You have to either invest a ton into finding guys versatile enough to play multiple positions really well, or have depth to constantly be subbing in and out. Its easier in the modern version of the game to just go get starting players who fit a 4-2-5 defense.

Plus the biggest perk we think of when we look at the 3-4 defenses were always the mystery around who was rushing and who wasnt. If you throw a micah parsons out at 3-4 OLB there is zero mystery around if he is coming or not. Teams have actually found better ways to disguise who is rushing and who isnt with simulated pressures with a 4 man line.

Go look up where 3-4 teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore ranked against the run and pass last year and you'll see exactly what the real benefit of the 3-4 is. Its all about having excellent interior players who can shut down the run game, not so much about shutting down the pass. You may see some 3-4 packages as Eberflus has done that in the past, but I doubt you're going to invest in a guy like OSA and not really have a true plus run stuffer at DT and try to play a lot of 3-4 looks. If you don't have those dominant interior DLs I just dont see the point of trying a 3-4 much.

 

[Cowboyny]

Yes, although the 2 DE positions in the 4-3 are different.

DLaw played the "Base" DE position (often called Strong Side DE). Alignment tight to the line. Similar alignment to 3-4 DE relative to the OT.

Parsons generally plays the "Open" side DE. It's a wider alignment. Similar alignment relative to the OT as a 3-4 OLB.

Charles Haley played Open side DE for the Cowboys. He had played 3-4 OLB for the 49ers. Haley was 250, maybe less.

Tony Tolbert was the Base DE. He was about 270.

Marinelli played guys like Robert Quinn at Open side DE (245 pounds).

The Base DE usually moves to a wider alignment on obvious passing situations.

Not certain how they will use Dante Fowler. He probably "start" but I don't see him and Parsons playing together on run.downs very often.

Kneeland and Payton Turner look like ideal Base DEs.

I agree, we are going to see Turner/Kneeland playing that strong side LE against the run

 

[DuncanIso]

Zimmer did not want to be here.

Don’t think Zim and Big Mike got a long.

 

[big dog cowboy]

DT will be the downfall of the 2025 Cowboys. Promise. Nothing new.

No.

We all know what the downfall of the 2025 Cowboys will be.