Lawrence Taylor top 3 NFL greatest RBs

[gtb1943]

I'm not saying Earl Campbell was top 3, but for some of you younger guys that werent lucky enough to see him play, this is one of my favorite runs he had. He was just punishing.

that is just the most well known
I counted 8 of the Rams 11 players hit him on that play and he was the one that got up first

 

[gtb1943]

Going to have to agree, but also kind of split the difference.

Where I agree:

Like you said, it's likely Barry breaks Payton's record in his 12th season, 13th for good measure. It's not a given, but it's likely.

As mentioned, the talk around Peterson threatening Emmitt's record started after Peterson's 6th year which was the 2k miracle comeback season. But then 2014 happened where he sat out 15 games (DV), and then he tore his meniscus in 2016. It's easy to see why Peterson never came close to Emmitt's record.

Barry had the torn MCL in '93 that didn't require surgery, but was otherwise remarkably healthy & available.

This all adds up to Peterson averaging 1175 yds a season after year 10 while Barry was averaging 1527. What's more, Sanders' average in his 9th and 10th seasons were higher than the previous 8.

Basically, Barry at age 29 (9th season) was producing like Peterson at age 27 (6th season) when AD's record breaking hype began. Except AD still needed 10k yards while Barry needed only 1457.

Where I split the difference: The targets were different. AD was chasing Emmitt's 18,355. Barry & Emmitt were simultaneously chasing Payton's 16,726.

While I think it's likely Barry breaks Payton's record, I can't say that's likely he makes it to 18,355.

Sanders would have had to average 1077 yards over the next three seasons to do it (807 over the next 4, or 646 over 5). Seems doable, but backs can hit a wall in their early 30s. Injuries can end careers.

And if he did reach 18,355, he probably would have needed to get to 19,000+ to keep Emmitt from ultimately surpassing him.

All in all, I just don't see a world where Barry Sanders would have been the all time leading rusher.


Novel over.

You write novels well unlike someone else...

 

[CT Dal Fan]

it frustrates me when I see so many fans round the league leave Emmitt out of their top five!

They’ll usually do Barry, Sweetness, Brown, LT and AP

They make Emmitt a creation of his offensive line and durability and that’s it.

These people never watched Emmitt. They didn't see him still getting 1000 yard seasons north of age 30 without a passing game in 2000 and 2001 and behind an offensive line that, from 1997 on, was no longer elite.

They also ignore the fact Barry Sanders did not exactly run behind a bad line himself. Kevin Glover was a Pro Bowl center. Lomas Brown was an all-pro tackle. And so on.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Sanders chose to go out on top; Like Jim Brown did. Like Rocky Marciano.
Emmitt was a shell of himself at the end. Like Michael Jordan was.
Frankly, I think well of those that choose to leave at the top.

I think it shows what a competitor Emmitt was...NOT a quitter. If you have the trait as hard as Emmitt did....you're gonna go oput on your last leg. It's admirable too.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

These people never watched Emmitt. They didn't see him still getting 1000 yard seasons north of age 30 without a passing game in 2000 and 2001 and behind an offensive line that, from 1997 on, was no longer elite.

They also ignore the fact Barry Sanders did not exactly run behind a bad line himself. Kevin Glover was a Pro Bowl center. Lomas Brown was an all-pro tackle. And so on.

The stiff arms, breaking tackles after the line...took some hard blocks. Played pretty injured a few times. Somethign stats can't show. If ya need 3 yards emmit got ya 3.3....regardless of the blocking. Emitt hit the hole no matter how small.

I'm not gonna concern myself with agreement about it.....Barry was a real acrobat back there...even when he didn't need to be.

 

[gtb1943]

I think it shows what a competitor Emmitt was...NOT a quitter. If you have the trait as hard as Emmitt did....you're gonna go oput on your last leg. It's admirable too.

I wonder.
Just how admirable is it to not be able to face reality?

 

[gtb1943]

The stiff arms, breaking tackles after the line...took some hard blocks. Played pretty injured a few times. Somethign stats can't show. If ya need 3 yards emmit got ya 3.3....regardless of the blocking. Emitt hit the hole no matter how small.

I'm not gonna concern myself with agreement about it.....Barry was a real acrobat back there...even when he didn't need to be.

The game against the Giants with the injured shoulder was a pure example of just plain GUTS.

 

[McKDaddy]

remember that brown played at 235 back when not a lot of players were bigger than 250. So that has to be considered.

It is so hard to fairly evaluate across era's. I lean that Brown benefitted from being the bigger, stronger & faster than most people he played against. He was impressive .... but I have a hard time thinking he'd be as impressive against players of later eras.

 

[McKDaddy]

The idea that Emmitt’s line was so great is a weak argument.

Agreed. If it was simply the line, why could no other back even come close to his production behind them?

 

[TwentyOne]

You're not going to have a fair debate with someone that needs to only see the Cowboys as the bestest ever.

But to add to what you say about Sanders, he not only made the Pro Bowl every year he played, he made All-Pro every year he played (6 1st Team). 1,300 yards every year he played except the 1,100 injury year. He was THE guy while he played, Emmitt included.

Thanks mate for your support.

 

[DarkVader33]

It is so hard to fairly evaluate across era's. I lean that Brown benefitted from being the bigger, stronger & faster than most people he played against. He was impressive .... but I have a hard time thinking he'd be as impressive against players of later eras.

I compare him to Wilt Chamberlain. He would have been good but not as good with today’s athletes

 

[TwentyOne]

Barry was the epitome of hero ball. He tried too hard, was it his fault no but seriously he finished a game with 13 att for -1 yard. He was one of the greatest backs but I watched some of his games he did not know when to give up on plays and would take huge losses.

i already answered this argumentation and showed it has no justification.

And yes he had one game with this stats. And you also remember that in the same season Barry had 1883 yds and was by far the best rusher in the league. He was one of the main reason Detroit was able to advance to the playoffs. And it is not that because of his stats Green Bay was killing them. GB won 16:12. Point is: His style of running was productive and very effective and not bad for his team.

Barry had an "all or nothing" style. Still he managed to have great output with a medicore team. If Emmit had that running style i am sure your argumentation would be 180 degree turned.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I wonder.
Just how admirable is it to not be able to face reality?

If someone hires you then it's reality. You're acting like he's Al Bundy.

I think accepting that you are still driven to play, even though you know your better years (and better teams!) are behind you *is* admirable, if someone will have you. The "don't ever quit" served him well for a long time.

I think "going out at the very top of your game"...might be a tad cowardly and a little quit in ya. Git while people still love you and your stats? I do respect people that do it for health and family...for sure

Like an old musician...might not be prime but if people keep coming to your shows, then keep going until they don't. There's no shame in that. Hold your fire as long as it's lit.

We most certainly do NOT have to agree about it!

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

i already answered this argumentation and showed it has no justification.

And yes he had one game with this stats. And you also remember that in the same season Barry had 1883 yds and was by far the best rusher in the league. He was one of the main reason Detroit was able to advance to the playoffs. And it is not that because of his stats Green Bay was killing them. GB won 16:12. Point is: His style of running was productive and very effective and not bad for his team.

Barry had an "all or nothing" style. Still he managed to have great output with a medicore team. If Emmit had that running style i am sure your argumentation would be 180 degree turned.

That Detroit team was not as bad as people say.

It is my er...uneducated"? opinion that Sanders ran in circles far more than necessary...confusing the blocking. He didn't WANT to hit the hole, big or small...like Emmitt wanted and COULD.

Anyway...it's fun topic to discuss. Some fans are pretty harsh on our former players, like it's shameful to favor them more than other team's players.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Barry was the epitome of hero ball. He tried too hard, was it his fault no but seriously he finished a game with 13 att for -1 yard. He was one of the greatest backs but I watched some of his games he did not know when to give up on plays and would take huge losses.

 

[TwentyOne]

Going to have to agree, but also kind of split the difference.

Where I agree:

Like you said, it's likely Barry breaks Payton's record in his 12th season, 13th for good measure. It's not a given, but it's likely.

As mentioned, the talk around Peterson threatening Emmitt's record started after Peterson's 6th year which was the 2k miracle comeback season. But then 2014 happened where he sat out 15 games (DV), and then he tore his meniscus in 2016. It's easy to see why Peterson never came close to Emmitt's record.

Barry had the torn MCL in '93 that didn't require surgery, but was otherwise remarkably healthy & available.

This all adds up to Peterson averaging 1175 yds a season after year 10 while Barry was averaging 1527. What's more, Sanders' average in his 9th and 10th seasons were higher than the previous 8.

Basically, Barry at age 29 (9th season) was producing like Peterson at age 27 (6th season) when AD's record breaking hype began. Except AD still needed 10k yards while Barry needed only 1457.

Where I split the difference: The targets were different. AD was chasing Emmitt's 18,355. Barry & Emmitt were simultaneously chasing Payton's 16,726.

While I think it's likely Barry breaks Payton's record, I can't say that's likely he makes it to 18,355.

Sanders would have had to average 1077 yards over the next three seasons to do it (807 over the next 4, or 646 over 5). Seems doable, but backs can hit a wall in their early 30s. Injuries can end careers.

And if he did reach 18,355, he probably would have needed to get to 19,000+ to keep Emmitt from ultimately surpassing him.

All in all, I just don't see a world where Barry Sanders would have been the all time leading rusher.


Novel over.

Hehe, but a very good and worthy novel. Thanks mate for putting in the work. I appreciate your answer.

But yes, my post was about Barry reaching Emmitts final numbers by his 12th or 13th season. See my thoughtprocess was like the following:

Barry went for approx. 1.5k in average. I watched his whole career. Not in one game i sensed a slowdown or that he lost a step. Not even when he retired after his 10th season.

So he had 15.2 k after 10 seasons. If somehow he would have declined in his final years (what should be expected at some time and day of course), then lets say he would have run for 1.2k,1k and then 800 in his 13th season. I think those numbers are a fair estimation following what he showed in his 9th and 10th year.

That would have given him 18.2k already. And i would have expected at least one more year where he had been able to go over 1.5k. Especially with the record in the bag.

Another thing i doubt is that Emmitt would have prolonged his career this long if he had Barry setting the record in front of him. So Barry wouldnt have needed to rush for 18k anyways. But he could have with ease. I am pretty sure on this one.

Of course some could slap me as a Barry fanboy or that my ability to judge RB play is not good. But that to me would not something id take serious. I think i can trust my eyes, my knowledge and my wisdom. And this is what i think of Barrys ability after watching his career.

 

[MarcusRock]

That Detroit team was not as bad as people say.

Detroit records during Sanders' career.

7-9
6-10
12-4
5-11
10-6
9-7
10-6
5-11
9-7
5-11

 

[blueblood70]

No one is saying anything close to what you're concluding. But facts are that Emmitt did have a superior defense, did have a superior OLine, did simultaneously play with a HOF QB, and did simultaneously play with a HOF WR who were both in HOF form during Emmitt's best years. They were all benefitted by each other's play. Fact is Barry didn't have those and still outperformed Emmitt over the entirety of his career. Again, hard to take on a Cowboys message board but the facts are there if they can be handled.

It doesn't matter I think what I said stands if he didn't want to be there he should have left he got plenty of numbers he made the Hall of Fame he made plenty of money The only difference is he doesn't have rings he wants to go get a ring he can go chase it that's why Sam Darnold has a ring he moved from team to team and he ended up with a ring DeMarcus Ware left here and ended up with a ring DeMarcus Lawrence tank left here and got a ring sometimes you just get a move to another team if that's what you're missing is a ring in a championship because you shouldn't be judged on those and that includes quarterback, my man..

That is why Matthew Stafford left the Lions where he didn't do anything but snap pad and then he goes and gets a ring even though he led the league in interceptions and threw two interceptions in the Super Bowl I don't know what we're talking about here emmy Smith belongs right alongside Barry Sanders because it's not his fault that he was on a better team but at some point Barry Sanders did have some good damn lineman..

Bunch of nonsense that he made all these yards by himself.. Yes he was one of the greatest running backs I've ever seen I already told you that in college he was impressive as hell at Oklahoma State and he was very impressive with the Lions So what are we talking about here and Miss Smith belongs in the top five no matter what advantages he may or may not have had I watched him run he made the right cuts with the right vision at the right time and he was fast enough and moved to where he needed to get the yards he didn't just run through truck size damn holes every damn snap that is not how it works go turn on Emmett Smith's highlight reels and you'll find out that he actually had to work for a lot of what he got as well..

So I don't even know what we're talking about here I don't want to hear about the nonsense that he had disadvantages His offensive lines were good enough to help him get where he went he didn't do it all by himself that's the giant **** BS I don't want to hear....
.
When you're a you're just a great running back and miss smith had a better team and got rings but both of them had to be great at their craft or they never would be where they're at both in the top five all time in the Hall of Fame numbers they have it all he just doesn't have the rings...


But neither does Adrian Peterson and guys like him I mean where's Derrick Henry's ring are you trying to tell me that Derrick Henry made every yard by himself and he didn't have good offensive lines I mean III think we're overlooking the fact that a lot of these guys did have solid to above average offensive lines most of their careers The rest of it well that just means rings or no rings..

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Detroit records during Sanders' career.

7-9
6-10
12-4
5-11
10-6
9-7
10-6
5-11
9-7
5-11

Yeah? And? That is at LEAST medicore and "not as bad as some people say".

I'm thinking maybe I should have specified the offense. If you're trying to make the point that they weren't as good as Cowboys/9ers/whoever...fine...but that isn't what I said.

 

[Nova]

Hehe, but a very good and worthy novel. Thanks mate for putting in the work. I appreciate your answer.

But yes, my post was about Barry reaching Emmitts final numbers by his 12th or 13th season. See my thoughtprocess was like the following:

Barry went for approx. 1.5k in average. I watched his whole career. Not in one game i sensed a slowdown or that he lost a step. Not even when he retired after his 10th season.

So he had 15.2 k after 10 seasons. If somehow he would have declined in his final years (what should be expected at some time and day of course), then lets say he would have run for 1.2k,1k and then 800 in his 13th season. I think those numbers are a fair estimation following what he showed in his 9th and 10th year.

That would have given him 18.2k already. And i would have expected at least one more year where he had been able to go over 1.5k. Especially with the record in the bag.

Another thing i doubt is that Emmitt would have prolonged his career this long if he had Barry setting the record in front of him. So Barry wouldnt have needed to rush for 18k anyways. But he could have with ease. I am pretty sure on this one.

Of course some could slap me as a Barry fanboy or that my ability to judge RB play is not good. But that to me would not something id take serious. I think i can trust my eyes, my knowledge and my wisdom. And this is what i think of Barrys ability after watching his career.

Yeah maybe. We don't know how motivations would have changed.

To be clear, I think Sanders was physically capable of being the all time leading rusher and having a Jerry Rice like distance between 1st and 2nd place. I think if he wanted to, he could have kept up the pace Emmitt did after year 10 of at least 878 yards a season finishing with 19,659 yds given the same extra years as Smith.

It feels like hindsight-- like the premise contains the answer. The reason he doesn't have the record is because he didn't want it. The reason Emmitt has it is because he did want it.

Like it's dumb, but it's hard for me to see a guy retire at 31 and think that he would have pushed through and kept up the same level of play.

So like where Peterson was undone by injuries and off the field issues, Barry was limited by himself. It's a weird factor, but it is a factor.

Getting to 18,355 takes a lot of mental fortitude and desire as well as skill and opportunity. It's one of those records that just may never be broken.