Guyton looks good

beware_d-ware said:
The way I'm seeing it, at least on TV, is that Guyton either doesn't know his technique that well or isn't confident in it. He looks awkward and choppy, because he's thinking while he's playing.

I play golf, and I see people do it with their swings all the time. There's 100 thoughts going through their head every time they take a shot. "Keep your head down", "keep your weight between your feet", "hands ahead of the club"... they try to track everything at once, and then they just awkwardly chunk their 7 iron into the ground.

On every rep he takes, Guyton looks like he's thinking "flat back", "wide base", "left foot back first", stuff like that. And then when he thinks about hand placement on the defender's pads, then Myles Garrett bull rushes him in the chest and all those plans go to hell.

Guyton started 13 college games, and practiced offensive line at D-1 for 2 seasons. He's now a 3rd year NFL vet, but by game reps, he has about as as much experience as a college senior. So iffy technique isn't surprising, but he's got work to do to make it up.

Can he make it up? Does he really want to do the work to make it up? Was he just gonna suck anyway? I don't know the answer. We expected that he was going to be raw, but so far, he's been a lot rawer than we hoped for.
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And it didn't really make sense. Scouts were all over declaring that he was raw. We should've known that, wasn't a secret.
 
kskboys said:
And it didn't really make sense. Scouts were all over declaring that he was raw. We should've known that, wasn't a secret.
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If a 6'8" 340 tackle with TE feet also had great technique, he'd go top five.

Guyton started one year at Oklahoma and wasn't very good. And then he entered the NFL for a big step up in competition. The book on him was that he was a total boom-or-bust guy, who was very likely going to struggle as a rookie, and drafting him was a bet that he'd improve from there and reach his Jason Peters-esque potential in years 2-4. Well year 2's finished and Guyton showed no signs of improvement. That makes it tough to be optimistic about year 3.

The problem with finding a starting LT is that being an athletic freak is pretty much a baseline requirement. It's not a position where you can trot out a Rudy with slow feet and short arms, and have him win with hustle and great technique. Rudy might succeed if you move him inside to guard, but at LT, Micah Parsons is going to Eurostep straight across that dude's face. Every NFL team wants start two 300lb dudes who can mirror Parsons, and the few college players who look able to do it always get drafted early. If a block-Garrett, block-Parsons type athlete is still available in the late 1st, he probably has some major warts to his game.

I like the Cowboys draft process of gambling on raw freak athletes at LT who might make it, over Rudys with less-than-great measurables who probably won't. I haven't seen numbers on this, but I am willing to bet that if you looked back at the last 20 years of "project" tackles vs the last 20 years of "Rudy" tackles, the project players will end up with a higher hit rate.

But so far, Guyton's definitely been no hit. We gambled that he'd improve from being an average Big 12 tackle, and he just hasn't.
 
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beware_d-ware said:
If a 6'8" 340 tackle with TE feet also had great technique, he'd go top five.

Guyton started one year at Oklahoma and wasn't very good - things never clicked for him. And then he entered the NFL for a big step up in competition. The book on him was that he was almost certainly going to struggle as a rookie, and drafting him was a bet that he'd improve his game and reach his Jason Peters-esque potential in years 2-4. Well year 2's finished and Guyton showed no improvement. That makes it tough to be optimistic about year 3.

The problem with finding a starting LT is that being an athletic freak is pretty much a baseline requirement. It's not a position where you can trot out a Rudy with slow feet and short arms, and have him win with hustle and great technique. Rudy might succeed if you move him inside to guard, but at LT, Micah Parsons is going to Eurostep straight across that dude's face. Every NFL team would like to start two 300lb dudes who could mirror Parsons, and the few college players who look able to do it always get drafted early. If a block-Garrett, block-Parsons type athlete is still available in the late 1st, he probably has some major warts to his game.

I like the Cowboys draft process of gambling on raw freak athletes at LT who might make it, over Rudys with less-than-great measurables who probably won't. I haven't seen numbers on this, but I am willing to bet that if you looked back at the last 20 years of "project" tackles vs the last 20 years of "Rudy" tackles, the project players will end up with a higher hit rate.

But so far, Guyton's definitely been no hit. We gambled that he'd improve from being an average Big 12 tackle, and he just hasn't.
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I am willing to give him this year; clearly the Front Office has decided on that.
He was so raw as a tackle that he has a lot farther to go then the vast majority of tackles that come into the NFL. He should not have been taken in the first rd; arguably not in the second.
 
beware_d-ware said:
If a 6'8" 340 tackle with TE feet also had great technique, he'd go top five.

Guyton started one year at Oklahoma and wasn't very good. And then he entered the NFL for a big step up in competition. The book on him was that he was a total boom-or-bust guy, who was very likely going to struggle as a rookie, and drafting him was a bet that he'd improve from there and reach his Jason Peters-esque potential in years 2-4. Well year 2's finished and Guyton showed no improvement. That makes it tough to be optimistic about year 3.

The problem with finding a starting LT is that being an athletic freak is pretty much a baseline requirement. It's not a position where you can trot out a Rudy with slow feet and short arms, and have him win with hustle and great technique. Rudy might succeed if you move him inside to guard, but at LT, Micah Parsons is going to Eurostep straight across that dude's face. Every NFL team wants start two 300lb dudes who can mirror Parsons, and the few college players who look able to do it always get drafted early. If a block-Garrett, block-Parsons type athlete is still available in the late 1st, he probably has some major warts to his game.

I like the Cowboys draft process of gambling on raw freak athletes at LT who might make it, over Rudys with less-than-great measurables who probably won't. I haven't seen numbers on this, but I am willing to bet that if you looked back at the last 20 years of "project" tackles vs the last 20 years of "Rudy" tackles, the project players will end up with a higher hit rate.

But so far, Guyton's definitely been no hit. We gambled that he'd improve from being an average Big 12 tackle, and he just hasn't.
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He was playing a bit better last season, but then got hurt again.
 
beware_d-ware said:
If a 6'8" 340 tackle with TE feet also had great technique, he'd go top five.

Guyton started one year at Oklahoma and wasn't very good. And then he entered the NFL for a big step up in competition. The book on him was that he was a total boom-or-bust guy, who was very likely going to struggle as a rookie, and drafting him was a bet that he'd improve from there and reach his Jason Peters-esque potential in years 2-4. Well year 2's finished and Guyton showed no improvement. That makes it tough to be optimistic about year 3.

The problem with finding a starting LT is that being an athletic freak is pretty much a baseline requirement. It's not a position where you can trot out a Rudy with slow feet and short arms, and have him win with hustle and great technique. Rudy might succeed if you move him inside to guard, but at LT, Micah Parsons is going to Eurostep straight across that dude's face. Every NFL team would like to start two 300lb dudes who could mirror Parsons, and the few college players who look able to do it always get drafted early. If a block-Garrett, block-Parsons type athlete is still available in the late 1st, he probably has some major warts to his game.

I like the Cowboys draft process of gambling on raw freak athletes at LT who might make it, over Rudys with less-than-great measurables who probably won't. I haven't seen numbers on this, but I am willing to bet that if you looked back at the last 20 years of "project" tackles vs the last 20 years of "Rudy" tackles, the project players will end up with a higher hit rate.

But so far, Guyton's definitely been no hit. We gambled that he'd improve from being an average Big 12 tackle, and he just hasn't.
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Your study of the player is impressive.
Very well done summary.
 
baltcowboy said:
Guyton is the key to the offense. Potentially our best offensive linemen. I think his biggest problem was staying healthy. Sadly he seems to have a hard time playing injured.
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Tyler Smith is the best in football at his position. Guyton will never be the best ever on this line.
 
gtb1943 said:
It cannot be repeated enough as regards just how RAW guyton was
He had been a DL then converted in his last year to Tackle

Virtually all Tackles in the NFL have played that position since High School

Tuinei was the only one I can think of that was converted in the pros and made a high level LT
a true lottery win

a lot of things rookies coming into the NFL have down as automatic were still new to him
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Guyton was an OL his whole college career. From TCU to OU
 
The hard part for OL is that they can be great for 60 of 62 snaps. If they get beat for sacks the other two times that’s 34 sacks given up a year. OL is a very unfair position for media and fans to grade.

Kind of like CB. Shut guys down 30 snaps a game in pass coverage. Make 1 misstep and it’s a 75 yard TD
 
Cowboys5217 said:
#16 in red zone scoring. They can't finish drives consistently on offense.
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They were what, 3rd in the NFL in scoring last year? That means they scored a lot of TD's from outside of the redzone.

While the redzone is definitely an area they need to improve upon, it's just one metric. This was an elite offense last season.
 
CowboysLakerBamaFan said:
None of this "fool me once" business around here! Here, it's "Fool me two thousand eight hundred and ninety four times, shame on YOU....but fool me FIFTY THOUSAND times....well, that's shame on you too."
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I think this same thing every time I see some replying to coogi and not putting him on ignore.

:)
 
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