The odd, odd career of Jason Hatcher

[Risen Star]

Gentlemen, tell me if I'm nuts here but has Jason Hatcher not had a very strange career? We're talking about a guy who was written off as a bust early in his career. Was never anything more than average in his prime and is now playing at a very high level well into his 30's.

He's a far better player today at 31 than he ever was at 27. It's not even close.

And with that spike in performance his leadership skills have followed.

I just can not recall another player who followed this form. Don't tell me it's a matter of scheme fit. There's more to it than that. This guy is the latest bloomer I've ever seen.

 

[Galian Beast]

He always showed flashes, but was never really consistently healthy early. Being in the 3-4 didn't help his career, and I would say it hurt a lot of people we drafted.

 

[TheCount]

I actually think Hatcher has been a pretty good player for some time, we just kept finding guys to put in front of him. We hung onto Spears for longer than we should have, there was Canty and there was Bowen.

I thought Hatcher had played well when given the opportunity but clearly the change in scheme and Ratliff going off the reservation has been very good for him.

As far as I can tell, the man has shown leadership qualities. A couple of years ago when he said the team needed a leader, he was crucified in the media and on this board but he was right.

 

[Titleist]

Contract years really bring out the best in players, don't they?

 

[percyhoward]

Contract years really bring out the best in players, don't they?

That does have to be mentioned.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Gentlemen, tell me if I'm nuts here but has Jason Hatcher not had a very strange career? We're talking about a guy who was written off as a bust early in his career. Was never anything more than average in his prime and is now playing at a very high level well into his 30's.

He's a far better player today at 31 than he ever was at 27. It's not even close.

And with that spike in performance his leadership skills have followed.

I just can not recall another player who followed this form. Don't tell me it's a matter of scheme fit. There's more to it than that. This guy is the latest bloomer I've ever seen.

It's scheme fit.

 

[Risen Star]

It's scheme fit.

He played very well last year in Rob's terrible 3-4 that has the Saints humming right now.

 

[Lonestar94]

I think he realized he had to step and be a leader on the team, and that comes with playing very well.

Players like him are what puts the team over the edge.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

He played very well last year in Rob's terrible 3-4 that has the Saints humming right now.

Exactly. He hasn't gotten better this year. He is just in a different role that requires (and allows) him to pursue the qb every play and stay in the backfield.

Jason Hatcher hasn't changed. His opportunities have.

 

[Risen Star]

Exactly. He hasn't gotten better this year. He is just in a different role that requires (and allows) him to pursue the qb every play and stay in the backfield.

Jason Hatcher hasn't changed. His opportunities have.

I don't agree. He's a far better player today than he was in his mid 20's. From JAG to pro bowler.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Offhand, I'd attribute Hatcher's improved play to scheme change. He was a five technique in the 3-4, and as Warren Sapp can tell you, it's difficult to excel playing five technique. It turned a HOF player like Sapp into a JAG.

 

[Galian Beast]

That's why I say that Bill Parcells' decision to take us to the 3-4 set us back a lot of years, yet people don't want to recognize it.

Players like Burnett, Carpenter, and Spears were ultimately awful draft picks for us. Let's not forget Jason and Brandon Williams,

That is 2 first round draft picks, a 2nd round draft pick, a 3rd round draft pick, and a 4th round draft pick.

You could potentially add wilber and crawford to that list.

 

[Galian Beast]

I don't agree. He's a far better player today than he was in his mid 20's. From JAG to pro bowler.

I remember when we drafted Hatcher from Grambling State. We realized that he was really raw coming out of college and that it would probably take a few years to develop him. I compare him to a guy like Wilcox now.

Hatcher didn't make his first start for 5 years. Not only was he behind guys like Spears and Canty, but then we'd bring in some veterans from time to time. When he became a starter at first he couldn't stay healthy, but he was always pretty productive.

Using him in the 4-3 simply augments that and reflects it in his numbers.

Had we switched to a 4-3 or moved Ratliff to defensive end, he would have had a career like JJ Watt, but looking back at it, Ratliff always was stubborn about not playing nose tackle. Who knows why.

 

[Alexander]

It's scheme fit.

That and unquestionably quality coaching.

We have not been blessed with good defensive line coaching for a very long time.

 

[Galian Beast]

Offhand, I'd attribute Hatcher's improved play to scheme change. He was a five technique in the 3-4, and as Warren Sapp can tell you, it's difficult to excel playing five technique. It turned a HOF player like Sapp into a JAG.

This is exactly right. Honestly the 4-3 is simply a better scheme for most players. If you hit on the right players, yeah a 3-4 can be a great defense, but we never really hit on players like the Steelers, Ravens, Jets, or 49ers did.

I think the focus on the 3-4 also set back our offense to be honest.

We were so busy trying to get linebackers and defensive ends that we never really focus on getting offensive linemen or for a while even skilled players on offense.

Between 2005 and 2009? How many offensive "first day" picks? 5. The trade for Roy Williams obviously didn't help though.

Anthony Fasano - 2nd rd
James Marten - 3rd rd
Felix Jones - 1st rd
Martellus Bennett - 2nd rd
Robert Brewster - 3rd rd

0 WR
2 TE (2nd round)
2 OL (3rd round)

In FIVE YEARS... that just doesn't cut it. You would expect that we would put together a great defense in that time, and we just didn't.

Since 2010 though...

6, half of which came this year. and you can see the difference.

The 2012 draft was all defense, and we still aren't seeing the benefits, and we probably won't see them because they were made for Rob Ryan's man coverage 3-4 defense.

 

[bark]

Hatch always showed flashes . I credit scheme and marenilli for him finally realizing his potential

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I don't agree. He's a far better player today than he was in his mid 20's. From JAG to pro bowler.

Except you referenced his play last year. He hasn't played better this year. Just his role has changed.

And we'll never know how good he was in his mid 20s. There were always better (or in some case just higher paid) guys in front of him.

I think you're trying to create a narrative that doesn't exist.

 

[Risen Star]

That and unquestionably quality coaching.

We have not been blessed with good defensive line coaching for a very long time.

Feh. He was a beast last year too.

I'm not saying that coaching and scheme aren't helping, but this is a guy who has just blossomed as a player in his 30's.

 

[Galian Beast]

Feh. He was a beast last year too.

I'm not saying that coaching and scheme aren't helping, but this is a guy who has just blossomed as a player in his 30's.

In the past I don't think our coaching staffs have been willing to let young players play.

That is really changing this year especially, so hopefully we don't lose out on good players because of some vets.

 

[Primetime42]

Exactly. He hasn't gotten better this year. He is just in a different role that requires (and allows) him to pursue the qb every play and stay in the backfield.

Jason Hatcher hasn't changed. His opportunities have.

While I'd like to agree, I can't. He's playing at a Warren Sapp level right now.