Making a Murderer

[65fastback2plus2]

I'll answer these first:

• Parts of Halbach’s body were found burned in Avery’s fire pit.

The DNA found in Avery's fire pit only had 7 of 15 markers match TH, which makes it only a "partial" match. This is why they had a dentist try and do a dental match but the two pieces they could find to put together the dentist stated he couldnt be certain it was a match to her dental records.

• Evidence of Avery’s involvement was found inside his home.

Outside of a planted key, no. How does a key used for years by the victim show up in the open and have not a TRACE of the victim's DNA anywhere on the key...impossible.

• There is DNA evidence tying the bullet found in the Avery garage to Halbach.

There is a bullet, found by the sheriff's department that said they would have no involvement, found months after the murder happens, under a pile of crap, and the bullet appears to have been there for forever, with some DNA smeared on it my Lenk.

• Avery was the last known person to see Halbach alive.

They actually never questioned the other person to possibly be the last to see her alive.

• Police found her car, with blood on it and in it, left on the Avery family’s lot.

Salvage yard with multiple points of access and multiple people with direct access.

• Avery’s high-school age cousin, Brendan Dassey, confessed that he had assisted his uncle in murder of Halbach.*

Brendan didnt know what the word "inconsistent" meant...anything he says cant be presumed to be true. He test with an IQ of like 69 which is in the zone of mental deficiencies.

 

[65fastback2plus2]

And the bullet found that matched his rifle, along with the statements made by his accomplice (to his own mother) along with finding her body in his fire pit along with him calling her employer and asking for her by name, etc. You can believe the system is flawed and I would agree with you on many points but this guy is not my poster child.

The rifle that a coworker said Scott Tadych tried to sell them?

Let me know when they found 1 drop of her blood anywhere on his property...

 

[JoeKing]

In fact, you proclaiming him assuredly guilty is one of the major points of the documentary and why you fail as a citizen. There was not "beyond a reasonable doubt" but rather hundreds of doubts.

I didn't proclaim any stance what-so-ever regarding his legal status in this case. Where do you get off calling a 20 year honorably retired military veteran of this country that he fails as a citizen?

 

[Dodger12]

The rifle that a coworker said Scott Tadych tried to sell them?

The .22 rifle......you know, the one that always hung above his bed and ballistics matched the bullet to...you know, that one.

Let me know when they found 1 drop of her blood anywhere on his property...

Blood? The victim's body was Avery's fire pit. But I know, I know......the police shot her (with Avery's rifle) and put her there to frame him. Got it.

 

[DogFace]

And where would they get the sweat DNA to plant on the hood? Also, they were lead to the hood by statements made by Dassey who even admitted to his mother that he and Avery committed the murder.

Like I said earlier, I'm not going to watch the documentary. While the CJ system is far from perfect, I'm just not going to be convinced that this psycho is innocent based on a far fetched conspiracy theory which would have required the complicity of multiple law enforcement officers and departments. Now, if you think people went to such extremes as to shoot a corpse and plant it, then you're on your own in this conversation.

A mob lawyer once said "three people keep a secret best when two are dead." Truer words were never spoken. You keep looking for the guy in the grassy knoll, Nicole Simpson's killer and this young lady's killer. That's the real flaw in the CJ system.

Oh. You haven't watched it?
Let me give you a review about the new Wll Ferrell movie. It's ok. It had several plot holes. The characters weren't well developed.

I haven't seen it.

He never admitted to his mother he killed her. He has a very low IQ. He was confused by basic conversation and that was apparent if you actually listen to the conversation. Or you can get on here and make absolutely ignorant comments with no basis in facts or even well informed opinions based on the information the show provided.

Often the argument when one has no rational explanation is the person is crazy for believing in conspiracies. If you don't think police have ever conspired to set someone up then you're nieve at best. This is pretty apparent that this happened here.

Two facts that you will not explain. And yes these are facts. Coburn was recorded listening to another policeman saying they had a perpetrator who admitted rob the rape that Avery had already been in jail for several years for. He did not share the information and Avery sat in jail another 8 years until dna proved he was innocent. Coburn also called in the license plate number and the car color and make before he had the information. The Dna on the hood latch was found months later. There were also 18 searches to uncover "evidence" that no one uncovered before .

 

[DogFace]

I didn't proclaim any stance what-so-ever regarding his legal status in this case. Where do you get off calling a 20 year honorably retired military veteran of this country that he fails as a citizen?

That's the same attitude the DA/cops/most authority have about questioning their integrity. As the DA said "you do so at your own peril".

Thank you for your service very much. Excelling as a citizen by serving our country isn't mutually exclusive from not being able to determine reasonable doubt. The standard by which we judge a person free or jailed.

 

[DogFace]

The .22 rifle......you know, the one that always hung above his bed and ballistics matched the bullet to...you know, that one.



Blood? The victim's body was Avery's fire pit. But I know, I know......the police shot her (with Avery's rifle) and put her there to frame him. Got it.

Your ability to grasp the facts is poor. Oh wait, you've never seen the show.

Do you realize how stupid that really sounds? You make completly inaccurate statements and when 65 explains it point by point you stick to the facts that you don't know. Great work!!!

By all means Carry on please. I've grown used to arguing with people who have very little grasp of reality or using facts. It's all about emotions with these types.

 

[DogFace]

The .22 rifle......you know, the one that always hung above his bed and ballistics matched the bullet to...you know, that one.



Blood? The victim's body was Avery's fire pit. But I know, I know......the police shot her (with Avery's rifle) and put her there to frame him. Got it.

Also, please explain why the blood evidence was clearly tampered with.

 

[DogFace]

And the bullet found that matched his rifle, along with the statements made by his accomplice (to his own mother) along with finding her body in his fire pit along with him calling her employer and asking for her by name, etc. You can believe the system is flawed and I would agree with you on many points but this guy is not my poster child.

1. Look up "Reid technique" about questioning.
2. Her car key had zero, yes 0, of the victims Dna on it.
3. There was no blood found in his trailer or garage despite the supposed confession saying they cut her throat and shot her in different locations.
4. The defenses'own investigator(he's working for the prosecution) badgered the defendant into "confessing" and there were documented opinions of his that the Averys were disputable people. . His "lawyer" encouraged this.
5. The police department that were being sued were not supposed to search without supervision. They did.

I could go on and on with actual facts and I will if you want. I'm sorry to be rude but, you simply have no idea what you're writing about. At all. Just try watching before making these poorly informed comments.

 

[JoeKing]

That's the same attitude the DA/cops/most authority have about questioning their integrity. As the DA said "you do so at your own peril".

Thank you for your service very much. Excelling as a citizen by serving our country isn't mutually exclusive from not being able to determine reasonable doubt. The standard by which we judge a person free or jailed.

Unlike the DA/cops/most authorities, I have nothing to do with this case and have not offered an opinion to guilt or innocence. If you are accusing me of not being able to determine reasonable doubt you are wrong, I simply have not shared my opinion on this forum.

 

[Tusan_Homichi]

I know one thing, his nephew sure as **** didn't get a fair trial, guilty or not.

That's where I'm at.

I can wrap my head around Avery being found guilty. Personally, I think he did it. Is there reasonable doubt there? I think it's borderline with all the info I've read about since I saw the documentary.

Brendan Dassey though? I have no clue how you can watch his "confessions" in context and think he was doing anything but just searching for answers that he thought people wanted to hear. I'm a cold-hearted *******, but I actually got a little choked up when he asked about being able to turn in his school project or when he asked about being done in time to watch Wrestlemania. The guy had NO CLUE. He (and his whole family for that matter) were completely ill-equipped to deal with this and that's where an actual competent attorney would come in, but his own attorney completely screwed him over in an attempt to help the state against Steve Avery. A halfway decent attorney there from the beginning and I don't see how there's any way Dassey is in prison today.

 

[DogFace]

Unlike the DA/cops/most authorities, I have nothing to do with this case and have not offered an opinion to guilt or innocence. If you are accusing me of not being able to determine reasonable doubt you are wrong, I simply have not shared my opinion on this forum.

Sorry mrtxstar. When you said it was one sided etc. I ran with that. My bad. You had one of the best arguments about the Dez catch and I do trust your opinion as being fair and reasonable. I was being hypothetical and shouldn't have accused you.

 

[DogFace]

That's where I'm at.

I can wrap my head around Avery being found guilty. Personally, I think he did it. Is there reasonable doubt there? I think it's borderline with all the info I've read about since I saw the documentary.

Brendan Dassey though? I have no clue how you can watch his "confessions" in context and think he was doing anything but just searching for answers that he thought people wanted to hear. I'm a cold-hearted *******, but I actually got a little choked up when he asked about being able to turn in his school project or when he asked about being done in time to watch Wrestlemania. The guy had NO CLUE. He (and his whole family for that matter) were completely ill-equipped to deal with this and that's where an actual competent attorney would come in, but his own attorney completely screwed him over in an attempt to help the state against Steve Avery. A halfway decent attorney there from the beginning and I don't see how there's any way Dassey is in prison today.

Exactly right and isn't that "confession" a big part of Avery's conviction.

I too think there's a chance he did it. However, in respect to reasonable doubt there unquestionably is.

 

[65fastback2plus2]

Blood? The victim's body was Avery's fire pit. But I know, I know......the police shot her (with Avery's rifle) and put her there to frame him. Got it.

Remind me how many experts said that it was very possible that the bones were moved? I'll wait...

 

[65fastback2plus2]

I didn't proclaim any stance what-so-ever regarding his legal status in this case. Where do you get off calling a 20 year honorably retired military veteran of this country that he fails as a citizen?

Prior service is great...it doesnt make someone infallible.

 

[65fastback2plus2]

Two facts that you will not explain. And yes these are facts. Coburn was recorded listening to another policeman saying they had a perpetrator who admitted rob the rape that Avery had already been in jail for several years for. He did not share the information and Avery sat in jail another 8 years until dna proved he was innocent. Coburn also called in the license plate number and the car color and make before he had the information. The Dna on the hood latch was found months later. There were also 18 searches to uncover "evidence" that no one uncovered before .

 

[65fastback2plus2]

1. Look up "Reid technique" about questioning.
2. Her car key had zero, yes 0, of the victims Dna on it.
3. There was no blood found in his trailer or garage despite the supposed confession saying they cut her throat and shot her in different locations.
4. The defenses'own investigator(he's working for the prosecution) badgered the defendant into "confessing" and there were documented opinions of his that the Averys were disputable people. . His "lawyer" encouraged this.
5. The police department that were being sued were not supposed to search without supervision. They did.

I could go on and on with actual facts and I will if you want. I'm sorry to be rude but, you simply have no idea what you're writing about. At all. Just try watching before making these poorly informed comments.

The most important 2 things to me in the whole ordeal.

1) How can Kratz prosecute and get two men convicted for the same crime by saying it happened DIFFERENTLY in each prosecution?
2) When Kratz says "It doesnt matter if that evidence was tampered with, there is other evidence"

 

[Dodger12]

He never admitted to his mother he killed her. He has a very low IQ. He was confused by basic conversation and that was apparent if you actually listen to the conversation. Or you can get on here and make absolutely ignorant comments with no basis in facts or even well informed opinions based on the information the show provided.

I keep giving you links with more information and you keep choosing to ignore them. The facts presented by the show, by many accounts, are very one sided. I'm not swayed by documentaries that don't provide both sides and let me decide.

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movie...-evidence-making-a-murderer-didnt-present.php

Updated: Here's some additional damning evidence against both Avery and Dassey either not presented in the series, or not presented in its entirety.
-- The reporter from the doc who had all the great reaction shots, added this:

@winklmann @sportstao @mjguff Not sure about most glaring. But Teresa's camera and palm pilot were found in Avery's burn barrel.

— Angenette Levy (@Angenette5) December 28, 2015
-- In this phone conversation (transcript in link) with his mother (which is not entirely included in the docuseries), Brendan told his mother that he did it, that Steven made him do it, and that Steven had touched him (and others) inappropriately in the past.

Mom: What all happened, what are you talking about?
Brendan: About what Me & Steven did that day,
Mom: What about it?
Brendan: Well, Mike & Mark & Matt came up one day and took another interview with me and said because they think I was lying but so, they said if I come out with it that I would have to go to jail for 90 years.
Mom: What?
Brendan: Ya. But if came out with itT would probably get I dunno about like 20 or less. After the interview they told me if I wanted to say something to her family and said that I was sorry for what I did.
Mom: Then Steven did do it.
Brendan: Ya
Mom: (Mom Crying) Why diddn't you tell me about this?
Brendan. Ya, but they came out wi.th something that was untrue with me
Mom:. What's that?
Brendan: They said that I sold crack

...

Mom: So did you talk to her family?
Brendan: No
M: Huh
Brendan: They just asked me if I wanted to say something to them, on the tape.
Mom: Did you?
Brendan: .lust that I was sorry for what I did.

...

Mom: Did he make you do this?
Brendan: Ya.
Mom: Then why didn't you tell him that.
Brendan: Tell him what
Mom: That Steven made you do it. You know he made you do a lot of things.
Brendan: Ya, I told them that. I even told them about Steven touching me and that.
Mom: What do you mean touching you?
Brendan: He would grab me somewhere where I was uncomfortable.
Mom: Brendan I am your mother.
Brendan. Ya.
Mom: Why didn't you come to me? Why didn't you tell me? Was this all before this happened?
Brendan: What do you mean?
Mom: All before this happened, did he touch you before all this stuff happened to you.
Brendan: Ya.
Mom: Why didn't you come to me, because then he would have been gone then and this wouldn't have happened.
Brendan: Ya ..
Mom: Yes, and you would still be here with me.
Brendan: Yes, Well you know I did it.
Mom: Huh
Brendan. You know he always touched us and that.
Mom: I didn't think there. He used to horse around with you guys.
Brendan: Ya, but you remember he would always do stuff to Brian and that.
Mom: What do you mean.
Brendan: Well he would like fake pumping him
Mom: Goofing around
Brendan: Ya but, like that one time when he was going with what's her name Jessica .. sister. Mom: Teresa?
Brendan: Ya. That one day when she was over, Steven and Blaine and Brian and I was downstairs and Steven was touching her and that.

-- There's no denying that it was unethical as hell for the investigator of Dassey's own attorney to elicit a confession out of Brendan, but the documentary suggests that the investigator peppered Brendan with leading questions and basically fed him the answers. From the full transcript, that is not the case at all. Brendan not only confessed, he gave a very detailed account of what happened. They had sex with Teresa on the bed, then they carried her out to the garage, where they cut her throat, and that's where Steven shot her five times with the .22 Brendan said he pulled from above his bed. Then they threw her in the fire. She begged for her life through the entire ordeal. Brendan even cut off some of her hair. Then they cleaned up with bleach and burned all the clothes in the bonfire.

Often the argument when one has no rational explanation is the person is crazy for believing in conspiracies. If you don't think police have ever conspired to set someone up then you're nieve at best. This is pretty apparent that this happened here.

Two facts that you will not explain. And yes these are facts. Coburn was recorded listening to another policeman saying they had a perpetrator who admitted rob the rape that Avery had already been in jail for several years for. He did not share the information and Avery sat in jail another 8 years until dna proved he was innocent. Coburn also called in the license plate number and the car color and make before he had the information. The Dna on the hood latch was found months later. There were also 18 searches to uncover "evidence" that no one uncovered before .

If you want to argue about police misconduct I would listen and probably agree with some of it. If you want me to believe that police shot the body, moved it to the fire pit, started the fire and burned the body along with some of the victim's possessions as well as planting other evidence....I just think that's silly for various reasons but you obviously believe this and then you think I'm ignorant. That's priceless.

In addition, Avery's prior case and any police misconduct committed by the police doesn't mean that they did the same in the second case. But I can absolutely see how that could taint his second case. This, to many anyway, is the same across the board no matter the crime. Once an officer or prosecutor is found to have engaged in any misconduct in an investigation, that opens the door for their prior convictions to be challenged and either those defendants get a second trial or they are released if the State doesn't want to present their main witness who lacks credibility.

 

[Dodger12]

Do you realize how stupid that really sounds? You make completly inaccurate statements and when 65 explains it point by point you stick to the facts that you don't know. Great work!!!

By all means Carry on please. I've grown used to arguing with people who have very little grasp of reality or using facts. It's all about emotions with these types.

This coming from the guy that thinks the police shot the body and moved it.

 

[JoeKing]

Prior service is great...it doesnt make someone infallible.

No doubt, but I've given no one a reason to question my integrity as a citizen so I believe I deserve the benefit of a doubt.