Kavon Frazier will be pretty good because Scot McCloughan thought so

[igtmfo]

The Commanders draft guy who finds gems in the low rounds called Kavon Frazier right after he picked Nate Sudfeld (QB Indiana) in the 6th and told him he was going to be their first 7th round pick if he lasted.

We got Frazier about 20 picks later in the 6th round.

Now pessimism : I have little faith in Will McClay to find late round gems except maybe the above. Now Will has been promoted, and Kevin Simon lately of the Falcons will be running the draft.

a) Simon was probably hired because those near Jerry knew him and told him he was a good man, pretty stout. Like those close to Jerry told him Larry Lacewell was a good man, pretty stout (including Jimmy said so).

b) But Lacewell didn't turn out to be good, no proven record. Will Simon the same and he has even shown on the NFL level he didn't draft well.

I have a solution. I wonder that the Jones family doesn't think of it. ... Hire people you don't hang with or know personally or how people close to you recommend them to you, but just based on how good they are ..

Who is the No. 2 draft man, draft/player personnel at Steelers, not the GM that is, the last few years and has a proven record - who wouldn't be a lateral hire but a promotion and we could actually get to run things here?. .. Cowboys should hire a guy like that ... Who is No. 2 man same as above at the Cardinals? .. No. 2 man at Seattle since McCloughlan left? (well maybe he hasn't been so great) .. The Vikings have done great recently - who is their No. 2 man?

This is how MLB does it. You hire people based on how good they are. Theo Epstein at the Cubs is an example, after his boom with the Red Sox. .. The GM Luhnow for the Astros is another, after his greatness with the Cardinals.

You hire proven excellence, not retreads.

Neither hire relatives of guys on your current staff. .. This could be applied to other Dallas teams, not just the Cowboys.

Included in the above is someone to possibly "coach up" who is eager, willing, and compliant.

Sorry men going off topic this morning ..

 

[casmith07]

Don't worry - when he doesn't have 32 INTs this year (2 per game) and never give up a single catch, he'll be a bum that needs to be cut.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

The GM Position is the most overrated position in the NFL.

Frazier's success will be dependent upon the coaching staff, staying healthy and his desire to hone his craft.

We haven't been exactly good at developing safeties.



YR

 

[JBS]

If SM thought so highly of this kid, I doubt he would have waited until the 7th round...sure, SM is a really good GM..but even he isn't hitting on all his late round picks...so the fact that he wanted Frazier in the 7th, means nothing to me...

If anything, it proves we had this kid ranked way too high on our board...doesn't mean the kid won't do well...it just doesn't guarantee he will

 

[PhillyCowboysFan]

Now pessimism : I have little faith in Will McClay to find late round gems except maybe the above. Now Will has been promoted, and Kevin Simon lately of the Falcons will be running the draft.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Kevin Simon was hired by the Falcolns from the Cowboys. Also McClay puts the board together but he does not make the picks so you have know idea who he actually recommends compared to who they actually pick.

 

[Alexander]

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Kevin Simon was hired by the Falcolns from the Cowboys. Also McClay puts the board together but he does not make the picks so you have know idea who he actually recommends compared to who they actually pick.

He is probably meaning to say Lionel Vital.

 

[igtmfo]

He is probably meaning to say Lionel Vital.

Thanks sorry bad googling this morning.

 

[CCBoy]

Don't worry - when he doesn't have 32 INTs this year (2 per game) and never give up a single catch, he'll be a bum that needs to be cut.

Doesn't one love burn barrel conventions...

 

[Carson]

Odds are already against him here. When's the last time we developed a safety? Let alone drafted one besides Williams when we had Woodson

 

[igtmfo]

Thanks for reading well I messed up our new dir. of college scouting's name ..

Let's say there is a genius drafter, Gil Brandt. .. when he is gone, fired, whatever, his assistants have absorbed all his wisdom.

Let's say you hire the No. 2 guy to Ozzie Newsome .. No. 2 guy might not be a genius, maybe some said Ozzie was or wasn't as far as drafting, but you have received a wonderful education from a guy who drafted great **at one point at least** ..

On and on.

At least you have a scheme of grading players, probably a lot of secrets in-house too, not avail. to the general coaching public. .. Guys that succeed you get that wisdom, that scheme.

And a great draft guru has hired you - and made you the No. 2 guy, because he thinks you are almost as good as he is. ..

The guys that succeeded Gil Brandt were some of those guys and made the Cowboys so great early 90s ... even though Gil wasn't picking the players so good at the end.

We have nothing like that now, apparently -

Else that guy would have been hired instead of Vital .. (I prolly should have put this in the draft forum.)

One guy, not home-grown, I have hopes for in all ways is Eberflus. .. He was not a NFL retread so to speak, nor a Jerry-friend-acquaintance hire.

 

[jazzcat22]

Ok, so basically, we drafted Frazier, and some don't think it was a good pick....however, some Commanders guy wanted to pick him, and that would have been a good pick....so now he may be a good pick for us....typical stuff....

In other words...they do it, they are geniuses....we do it, we are dumb arses...

 

[jazzcat22]

The GM Position is the most overrated position in the NFL.

Frazier's success will be dependent upon the coaching staff, staying healthy and his desire to hone his craft.

We haven't been exactly good at developing safeties.



YR

This is where I hope Greg Jackson coming in to help coach the secondary really makes a difference.
I wanted Henderson replaces, also Baker. But I can understand why he was kept, because they felt they needed someone familiar with the system at this point.

Agree with the GM position to a degree. In reality, people just want to bag on Jerry, rather Owner / GM or water boy. As I am sure they would find fault with how he carried the bucket. [yes I know there is not a bucket].

 

[igtmfo]

Ok, so basically, we drafted Frazier, and some don't think it was a good pick....however, some Commanders guy wanted to pick him, and that would have been a good pick....so now he may be a good pick for us....typical stuff....

In other words...they do it, they are geniuses....we do it, we are dumb arses...

Jazzcat, last I looked, I think about all but one draft pick by the Commanders dude, contributed made the team etc. last year... and he may drink too much but he built in large part Seahawks, 49ers into contenders a few years ago.

From ESPN: "No team got more from 2015 draft class than Commanders (Scot McCloughlan, that is) .. per Mel Kiper below ..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...5-draft-class-than-Commanders-mel-kiper-says/

I'm not saying he is the be-all and end-all .. but the Cowboys haven't had a good drafter since, in part, Parcells. And in main, Gil Brandt's protogees who were even better than he was: Dick Mansperger, Jeff Smith, John Wooten, Bob Ackles. The greatest drafters ever in the NFL. (But fired by Jerry.)

I will say again, it wasn't Jimmy that built the Cowboys in the early 90s, it was the guys above, Gil Brandt's protogees, who did it. .. Jerry fired them after the first (or was it second?) Super Bowl because he thought they were making too much money. Plus Jerry thought the coaches could draft as good. And because the guys above represented the Tex Schramm/Tom Landry era, and Jerry wanted all the credit for himself.

OK back to topic. If we get one good player out of the end of draft UDFAs, it will probably be Kavon Frazier.

 

[erod]

Ok, so basically, we drafted Frazier, and some don't think it was a good pick....however, some Commanders guy wanted to pick him, and that would have been a good pick....so now he may be a good pick for us....typical stuff....

In other words...they do it, they are geniuses....we do it, we are dumb arses...

That's pretty much the gist.

 

[erod]

If SM thought so highly of this kid, I doubt he would have waited until the 7th round...sure, SM is a really good GM..but even he isn't hitting on all his late round picks...so the fact that he wanted Frazier in the 7th, means nothing to me...

Just because he's high on Frazier doesn't mean he wasn't high on anybody else as well.

You only get seven picks. You can't take everybody you're high on.

 

[jazzcat22]

Jazzcat, last I looked, I think about all but one draft pick by the Commanders dude, contributed made the team etc. last year... and he may drink too much but he built in large part Seahawks, 49ers into contenders a few years ago.

From ESPN: "No team got more from 2015 draft class than Commanders (Scot McCloughlan, that is) .. per Mel Kiper below ..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...5-draft-class-than-Commanders-mel-kiper-says/

I'm not saying he is the be-all and end-all .. but the Cowboys haven't had a good drafter since, in part, Parcells. And in main, Gil Brandt's protogees who were even better than he was: Dick Mansperger, Jeff Smith, John Wooten, Bob Ackles. The greatest drafters ever in the NFL. (But fired by Jerry.)

I will say again, it wasn't Jimmy that built the Cowboys in the early 90s, it was the guys above, Gil Brandt's protogees, who did it. .. Jerry fired them after the first (or was it second?) Super Bowl because he thought they were making too much money. Plus Jerry thought the coaches could draft as good. And because the guys above represented the Tex Schramm/Tom Landry era, and Jerry wanted all the credit for himself.

OK back to topic. If we get one good player out of the end of draft UDFAs, it will probably be Kavon Frazier.

Worse move Jerry made...over and over...hiring Lacewell, and keeping him around over and over year to year.

 

[Primetime42]

The Commanders draft guy who finds gems in the low rounds called Kavon Frazier right after he picked Nate Sudfeld (QB Indiana) in the 6th and told him he was going to be their first 7th round pick if he lasted.

We got Frazier about 20 picks later in the 6th round.

Now pessimism : I have little faith in Will McClay to find late round gems except maybe the above. Now Will has been promoted, and Kevin Simon lately of the Falcons will be running the draft.

a) Simon was probably hired because those near Jerry knew him and told him he was a good man, pretty stout. Like those close to Jerry told him Larry Lacewell was a good man, pretty stout (including Jimmy said so).

b) But Lacewell didn't turn out to be good, no proven record. Will Simon the same and he has even shown on the NFL level he didn't draft well.

I have a solution. I wonder that the Jones family doesn't think of it. ... Hire people you don't hang with or know personally or how people close to you recommend them to you, but just based on how good they are ..

Who is the No. 2 draft man, draft/player personnel at Steelers, not the GM that is, the last few years and has a proven record - who wouldn't be a lateral hire but a promotion and we could actually get to run things here?. .. Cowboys should hire a guy like that ... Who is No. 2 man same as above at the Cardinals? .. No. 2 man at Seattle since McCloughlan left? (well maybe he hasn't been so great) .. The Vikings have done great recently - who is their No. 2 man?

This is how MLB does it. You hire people based on how good they are. Theo Epstein at the Cubs is an example, after his boom with the Red Sox. .. The GM Luhnow for the Astros is another, after his greatness with the Cardinals.

You hire proven excellence, not retreads.

Neither hire relatives of guys on your current staff. .. This could be applied to other Dallas teams, not just the Cowboys.

Included in the above is someone to possibly "coach up" who is eager, willing, and compliant.

Sorry men going off topic this morning ..

I feel like the bolded is one big oxymoron.

 

[RS12]

The GM Position is the most overrated position in the NFL.

Frazier's success will be dependent upon the coaching staff, staying healthy and his desire to hone his craft.

We haven't been exactly good at developing safeties.



YR

We noticed.

 

[igtmfo]

Than

Worse move Jerry made...over and over...hiring Lacewell, and keeping him around over and over year to year.

Thanks Jazzcat now we are on the same page.

I was listening to some Keith Jarrett this morning - those early 80s videos on YouTube. I wonder if you like him. To me he's a bad ***. I used to take jazz piano from ole' Bert Ligon at UNT privately - not because I wanted to learn anything and he had a lot to teach me, but because I wanted to talk jazz with someone. Well too much more to say. I got to UNT in 1977 just after the storm of Lyle Mays .. but Marc Johnson Steve Houghton Pat Coil etc. were still there, Bill Mays too the tenor (alto?) player.

Pat Metheny and Lyle Mays, Rodby on bass and Dan Gottlieb drums played I think early 1977, to support the first quartet LP on ECM. .. Real stormy night, about 40 people were there no kidding to watch it in the old UNT auditorium in the English Building up near Hickory St. .. Best concert I've ever seen. Best jazzer last few decades at UNT I think a guy from Serbia, pianist, Pavel Wlosok, or Vlosok? . Anyway believe me Frazier will be good ha ha ..

This thread has officially switched to jazz talk ..

 

[jazzcat22]

Than

Thanks Jazzcat now we are on the same page.

I was listening to some Keith Jarrett this morning - those early 80s videos on YouTube. I wonder if you like him. To me he's a bad ***. I used to take jazz piano from ole' Bert Ligon at UNT privately - not because I wanted to learn anything and he had a lot to teach me, but because I wanted to talk jazz with someone. Well too much more to say. I got to UNT in 1977 just after the storm of Lyle Mays .. but Marc Johnson Steve Houghton Pat Coil etc. were still there, Bill Mays too the tenor (alto?) player.

Pat Metheny and Lyle Mays, Rodby on bass and Dan Gottlieb drums played I think early 1977, to support the first quartet LP on ECM. .. Real stormy night, about 40 people were there no kidding to watch it in the old UNT auditorium in the English Building up near Hickory St. .. Best concert I've ever seen. Best jazzer last few decades at UNT I think a guy from Serbia, pianist, Pavel Wlosok, or Vlosok? . Anyway believe me Frazier will be good ha ha ..

This thread has officially switched to jazz talk ..

I used to listen to Jarrett in my college days in the 70's. Don't recall any song titles.
I based my name on the Jazz Cat from The Rippingtons, and 22 from Emmitt.

I am hoping Frazier can show something by the end of the year to take over next season.