Cowboys losing Ground? For the Record . reinforces how 2016 was a missed opportunity ***MERGED***

[waldoputty]

the one team that won the super bowl didn't seem to have any problems making there team better with trades during free agency

they had assets to trade with.

 

[Sandyf]

Not saying we don't need to address DE and secondary but fans still forget Tapper and Smith which will help. As to Carroll, considering Marinelli has been trying to get the guy for two years, have to believe he is at least better than Carr and Claiborne at least to Marinelli.

With McClay, I do trust in the draft.

 

[waldoputty]

I haven't been around these forums long enough to post my own thread, so let me chime in on this one.

Much of the concern about the Cowboys defense has been the lack of a consistent pass rush. Sydla said as much in his original post and it is a legitimate concern. However, someone who hasn't been mentioned a lot in the discussion of said pass rush is Charles Tapper. He is an unknown quality, since he has yet to play in an NFL game, preseason or otherwise. However, before he was sidelined with his back problem during training camp, there seemed to be every indication that he was progressing nicely. If his back is healthy, I think he can be a great addition to the defense and to the pass rush.

Brian Martin from Inside The Star has an article that lays out the argument for Charles Tapper much better than I can.

https://insidethestar.com/charles-tapper-will-improve-cowboys-pass-rush-in-2017/

welcome.
tapper is a nice piece and may be a player.
or his back may fall apart when he sees the field.

the word is may.
when you go 13-3, you generally dont want may.
you want to take the next step.

 

[yimyammer]

If the Pats had figured out how to stop the run game.

that organization does seem to have a track record of struggling to figure things out

 

[TrailBlazer]

Our two biggest needs heading into the offseason was the fact we still needed a better pass rush and that we needed to upgrade the secondary.

Thus far, we've done nothing to upgrade the pass rush. And we've signed one CB who is probably not as good as Carr or Claiborne. And what's left on the market isn't likely to improve our needs. So it's all about the draft.

Some will write this off as a woe is me post but it's a real discussion point. The goal in the offseason is to get better and right now, we have not. We seem to be throwing all our hopes at improving at our draft.

That's a risky proposition IMO.

You're right. But spending money in FA plugging holes rarely works. Just let it play out. Play for the long game.

 

[haleyrules]

Our two biggest needs heading into the offseason was the fact we still needed a better pass rush and that we needed to upgrade the secondary.

Thus far, we've done nothing to upgrade the pass rush. And we've signed one CB who is probably not as good as Carr or Claiborne. And what's left on the market isn't likely to improve our needs. So it's all about the draft.

Some will write this off as a woe is me post but it's a real discussion point. The goal in the offseason is to get better and right now, we have not. We seem to be throwing all our hopes at improving at our draft.

That's a risky proposition IMO.

Agreed. I really don't believe in signing old, overpaid FA's, it seldom pays off. However, l thought the club might take a shot at some decent FA's...nothng crazy or costly....but something. Very surprised.

 

[haleyrules]

For the record Im not a sky is falling kind of guy and even if we dont sign another free agent I still expect 10 wins. But I was hoping to have improvements added, not to simply lose major contributors and rely on our rookies heavily. Say what you want about the guys we lost but:

Leary was very valuable

Church was the qb of the secondary. They have done pretty well considering our pass rush.

Mo although a china doll, was growing as a player. Hes never been accused of being the smartest guy so maybe the learning curve was a tad steeper for him.

Carr was solid in dealing with bigger possession receivers and was always available.

Wilcox was much better in his new role and was an enforcer out there.

They all had thier warts and Im aware but please feel free to reiterate why they sucked. But also realize I dont need selling and I didn't want everyone back. I simply acknowledge they had thier strengths and odds are without making a couple of key additions we will notice our losses. That said its not insurmountable to make these additions, right now though I feel a little exposed.

Good post.

 

[big dog cowboy]

So one of their strategies is not to retain their own? What do you think their strategy is this off-season to improve the team? do you see one and if so, do you agree with the strategy?

One of their strategies is certainly to retain their own but they aren't going to overpay.

When it comes to talent acquisition, their plan is the same as it has been the last several off seasons.

Yes I agree with it.

Next year will be different if Romo's contract is off the books. There will be money to spend.

 

[haleyrules]

And Jaylon Smith's nerve to completely fire.
Sneaking out now. ------------------------------->

. Too funny!

 

[big dog cowboy]

I haven't been around these forums long enough to post my own thread, so let me chime in on this one.

Much of the concern about the Cowboys defense has been the lack of a consistent pass rush. Sydla said as much in his original post and it is a legitimate concern. However, someone who hasn't been mentioned a lot in the discussion of said pass rush is Charles Tapper. He is an unknown quality, since he has yet to play in an NFL game, preseason or otherwise. However, before he was sidelined with his back problem during training camp, there seemed to be every indication that he was progressing nicely. If his back is healthy, I think he can be a great addition to the defense and to the pass rush.

Brian Martin from Inside The Star has an article that lays out the argument for Charles Tapper much better than I can.

https://insidethestar.com/charles-tapper-will-improve-cowboys-pass-rush-in-2017/

Good post. I would add Jaylon Smith also. Both should be big contributors this season.

 

[LocimusPrime]

I haven't been around these forums long enough to post my own thread, so let me chime in on this one.

Much of the concern about the Cowboys defense has been the lack of a consistent pass rush. Sydla said as much in his original post and it is a legitimate concern. However, someone who hasn't been mentioned a lot in the discussion of said pass rush is Charles Tapper. He is an unknown quality, since he has yet to play in an NFL game, preseason or otherwise. However, before he was sidelined with his back problem during training camp, there seemed to be every indication that he was progressing nicely. If his back is healthy, I think he can be a great addition to the defense and to the pass rush.

Brian Martin from Inside The Star has an article that lays out the argument for Charles Tapper much better than I can.

https://insidethestar.com/charles-tapper-will-improve-cowboys-pass-rush-in-2017/

Welcome bro!

 

[AsthmaField]

Of course but that's not the point. Anyone can be replaced.

The question is they haven't replaced some with anyone and are counting on just hitting in the draft again at a high rate to improve.

No, Nolan Carroll is not a replacement or upgrade at CB. He's worse than Carr and Claiborne.

Free agency has just started, so we really don't know what they're not going to do within the open market. How many days has it been going on? Three days? four days? It is silly to be drawing many conclusions saying what is and isn't going to happen in free agency.

Claiborne and Carr haven't even signed elsewhere yet, so we don't even know if Dallas will re-sign them or not (although I expect at least one to leave). IMO, the team likes both but loves neither and won't be too upset if they both go. If they both do go, there is plenty of time in free agency to sign someone other than Carroll.

Speaking of Carroll, I think the team just likes him and wanted to add him to the team. Not really to fill a hole necessarily but because there is something they like about him. They tried to sign him last year. I'm not crazy about the guy but I do think he's much better than he showed last year in Philly. I don't view him as a replacement for lost players - but more as an opportunity to add a player they like at a very reasonable rate. There is plenty of time to bring in another free agent corner if they lose both Carr and Claiborne.

AJ Bouye was a player I would have liked Dallas to sign. He fits most of the criteria that I think the team looks for: Young enough to finish out his contract. Good character by all accounts. In all likelihood he would have meshed well with Dallas' current young roster. He got paid a ton though. I understand the team's hesitation to sign him too. He hasn't played at a high level for very long and he was playing in a defense with a lot of other good players around him. There is definitely a chance that he could be another Carr (a solid player who is paid like an all-pro).

Dallas will sign young guys to big contracts but it is almost always going to be their own players who they already know and who they can be sure of. That's just how they're doing it now.

I know you've wanted Dallas to sign Peppers but the team just isn't going to sign a DL who is in his late 30's. They simply aren't going to do that. It is about more than, can he play in a rotation and give you a few sacks. He probably could... but so can many other guys who are in their 20's. The front office has a plan (finally after years and years of not having any direction), and bringing in "old names" is something they're actively guarding against. I agree whole heartedly with it too. They want to build a young team without hiring old mercenaries who are just trying to make a few more dollars before retiring.

Sheard would have been ok with me but he, like most free agents, was over priced and simply not that good. What he would bring to the table isn't very difficult to get.

Paea is a solid signing and a replacement for McClain. He was mistcast playing in a 34 scheme. As strong as he is, that isn't what he's good at. He's a strong, movement 43 DT who gives very good run support and plays as hard as humanly possible each snap. He's a good fit in Dallas and isn't expensive at all. He won't help the pass rush but he'll be on the sideline on passing downs. He can push the pocket but he simply doesn't get to the QB very often.

As for Moore... I have zero expectations for him. He's a flyer by the team. If he hits, it'll be a gift but as of right now, I'm not even counting on him to make the team. Help on the edge will have to come from a hopefully healthy Lawrence, Tapper and from a constantly improving part-time LDE David Irving... and from the draft. Maybe the team will bring in another DE via free agency but I don't really see much out there.

People just can't expect to look at the offseason and judge if the roster holes are filled when we're just into day 4 of the half a year offseason. It is chicken little'ish to do so.

 

[waldoputty]

Free agency has just started, so we really don't know what they're not going to do within the open market. How many days has it been going on? Three days? four days? It is silly to be drawing many conclusions saying what is and isn't going to happen in free agency.

Claiborne and Carr haven't even signed elsewhere yet, so we don't even know if Dallas will re-sign them or not (although I expect at least one to leave). IMO, the team likes both but loves neither and won't be too upset if they both go. If they both do go, there is plenty of time in free agency to sign someone other than Carroll.

Speaking of Carroll, I think the team just likes him and wanted to add him to the team. Not really to fill a hole necessarily but because there is something they like about him. They tried to sign him last year. I'm not crazy about the guy but I do think he's much better than he showed last year in Philly. I don't view him as a replacement for lost players - but more as an opportunity to add a player they like at a very reasonable rate. There is plenty of time to bring in another free agent corner if they lose both Carr and Claiborne.

AJ Bouye was a player I would have liked Dallas to sign. He fits most of the criteria that I think the team looks for: Young enough to finish out his contract. Good character by all accounts. In all likelihood he would have meshed well with Dallas' current young roster. He got paid a ton though. I understand the team's hesitation to sign him too. He hasn't played at a high level for very long and he was playing in a defense with a lot of other good players around him. There is definitely a chance that he could be another Carr (a solid player who is paid like an all-pro).

Dallas will sign young guys to big contracts but it is almost always going to be their own players who they already know and who they can be sure of. That's just how they're doing it now.

I know you've wanted Dallas to sign Peppers but the team just isn't going to sign a DL who is in his late 30's. They simply aren't going to do that. It is about more than, can he play in a rotation and give you a few sacks. He probably could... but so can many other guys who are in their 20's. The front office has a plan (finally after years and years of not having any direction), and bringing in "old names" is something they're actively guarding against. I agree whole heartedly with it too. They want to build a young team without hiring old mercenaries who are just trying to make a few more dollars before retiring.

Sheard would have been ok with me but he, like most free agents, was over priced and simply not that good. What he would bring to the table isn't very difficult to get.

Paea is a solid signing and a replacement for McClain. He was mistcast playing in a 34 scheme. As strong as he is, that isn't what he's good at. He's a strong, movement 43 DT who gives very good run support and plays as hard as humanly possible each snap. He's a good fit in Dallas and isn't expensive at all. He won't help the pass rush but he'll be on the sideline on passing downs. He can push the pocket but he simply doesn't get to the QB very often.

As for Moore... I have zero expectations for him. He's a flyer by the team. If he hits, it'll be a gift but as of right now, I'm not even counting on him to make the team. Help on the edge will have to come from a hopefully healthy Lawrence, Tapper and from a constantly improving part-time LDE David Irving... and from the draft. Maybe the team will bring in another DE via free agency but I don't really see much out there.

People just can't expect to look at the offseason and judge if the roster holes are filled when we're just into day 4 of the half a year offseason. It is chicken little'ish to do so.

it has only been 3-4 days, but 90% of the top players are gone.

here was an opportunity for the team to definitively improve and address a few critical areas of need.
that has been lost.

furthermore, we did not sign a replacement for Free, when there were a few available.
we now have taken a risk with the QB of the present and next 15 years.
if Dak gets hurt, it would be really sad.
Unlike many QBs, an ACL or achilles would drastically affect his performance as he only ran a 4.8 to start with.
this is all because a bean counter wants to win the bean counter olympics.

if they wanted to save $, at least get a competent RT to protect Dak.
since we have too many needs on the D to get in the draft, just tank the year for all I care..
if the D is horrible, then at least we get a better draft pick in 2018 to nail a daddy and complete the dynasty building.

we are going into this thing half pregnant - plain dumb.

 

[haleyrules]

Free agency has just started, so we really don't know what they're not going to do within the open market. How many days has it been going on? Three days? four days? It is silly to be drawing many conclusions saying what is and isn't going to happen in free agency.

Claiborne and Carr haven't even signed elsewhere yet, so we don't even know if Dallas will re-sign them or not (although I expect at least one to leave). IMO, the team likes both but loves neither and won't be too upset if they both go. If they both do go, there is plenty of time in free agency to sign someone other than Carroll.

Speaking of Carroll, I think the team just likes him and wanted to add him to the team. Not really to fill a hole necessarily but because there is something they like about him. They tried to sign him last year. I'm not crazy about the guy but I do think he's much better than he showed last year in Philly. I don't view him as a replacement for lost players - but more as an opportunity to add a player they like at a very reasonable rate. There is plenty of time to bring in another free agent corner if they lose both Carr and Claiborne.

AJ Bouye was a player I would have liked Dallas to sign. He fits most of the criteria that I think the team looks for: Young enough to finish out his contract. Good character by all accounts. In all likelihood he would have meshed well with Dallas' current young roster. He got paid a ton though. I understand the team's hesitation to sign him too. He hasn't played at a high level for very long and he was playing in a defense with a lot of other good players around him. There is definitely a chance that he could be another Carr (a solid player who is paid like an all-pro).

Dallas will sign young guys to big contracts but it is almost always going to be their own players who they already know and who they can be sure of. That's just how they're doing it now.

I know you've wanted Dallas to sign Peppers but the team just isn't going to sign a DL who is in his late 30's. They simply aren't going to do that. It is about more than, can he play in a rotation and give you a few sacks. He probably could... but so can many other guys who are in their 20's. The front office has a plan (finally after years and years of not having any direction), and bringing in "old names" is something they're actively guarding against. I agree whole heartedly with it too. They want to build a young team without hiring old mercenaries who are just trying to make a few more dollars before retiring.

Sheard would have been ok with me but he, like most free agents, was over priced and simply not that good. What he would bring to the table isn't very difficult to get.

Paea is a solid signing and a replacement for McClain. He was mistcast playing in a 34 scheme. As strong as he is, that isn't what he's good at. He's a strong, movement 43 DT who gives very good run support and plays as hard as humanly possible each snap. He's a good fit in Dallas and isn't expensive at all. He won't help the pass rush but he'll be on the sideline on passing downs. He can push the pocket but he simply doesn't get to the QB very often.

As for Moore... I have zero expectations for him. He's a flyer by the team. If he hits, it'll be a gift but as of right now, I'm not even counting on him to make the team. Help on the edge will have to come from a hopefully healthy Lawrence, Tapper and from a constantly improving part-time LDE David Irving... and from the draft. Maybe the team will bring in another DE via free agency but I don't really see much out there.

People just can't expect to look at the offseason and judge if the roster holes are filled when we're just into day 4 of the half a year offseason. It is chicken little'ish to do so.

Yep. Great Post.

 

[AsthmaField]

signing a couple expensive FAs does not prevent the building of a dynasty and does not blow the cap up.
while almost everyone is aware of what the previous strategy is, some of us gave the front office the credit of being flexible and being able to change up strategy to be opportunistic.
apparently that was in error.

people will buy whatever is in the display case.
more success will make more $ though, as if they needed it.

What you call opportunistic, the team calls grossly overspending and going against their team direction.

Just because it is what you wanted the team to do and the subject of many, many threads you started doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.

 

[AsthmaField]

it has only been 3-4 days, but 90% of the top players are gone.

here was an opportunity for the team to definitively improve and address a few critical areas of need.
that has been lost.

furthermore, we did not sign a replacement for Free, when there were a few available.
we now have taken a risk with the QB of the present and next 15 years.
if Dak gets hurt, it would be really sad.
Unlike many QBs, an ACL or achilles would drastically affect his performance as he only ran a 4.8 to start with.
this is all because a bean counter wants to win the bean counter olympics.

if they wanted to save $, at least get a competent RT to protect Dak.
since we have too many needs on the D to get in the draft, just tank the year for all I care..
if the D is horrible, then at least we get a better draft pick in 2018 to nail a daddy and complete the dynasty building.

we are going into this thing half pregnant - plain dumb.

That "90%" was, for the most part, not very good players. The team isn't going to overpay average talent in free agency. I told you time and again.

 

[waldoputty]

That "90%" was, for the most part, not very good players. The team isn't going to overpay average talent in free agency. I told you time and again.

these are not average: bouye, poe (still available), zeitler, perry, ryan, whitworth, pryor, jeffery, hankins, gilmore, prince, hightower, wagner, kirkpatrick, jackson, logan, fairley, leary

 

[waldoputty]

What you call opportunistic, the team calls grossly overspending and going against their team direction.

Just because it is what you wanted the team to do and the subject of many, many threads you started doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.

i started the threads to show what could be done without blowing up the cap.
after all, we all agree we should not blow up the cap right.

 

[lane]

Bottom line, the Cowboys haven't lost anyone that couldn't be replaced. Those that has left got overpaid and the Cowboys were smart to let them walk.

 

[CyberB0b]

We have improved by ridding ourselves of a few players who will never be better. Time to move on.

What does that say about their backups that couldn't win a starting spot over those guys?