Cowboys losing Ground? For the Record . reinforces how 2016 was a missed opportunity ***MERGED***

[FuzzyLumpkins]

smh

We stopped the FA splashes after Carr and started the Steve-o specials to fill out holes and built the starting unit through the draft. We have had quite a bit of success yet people want to go back to the old days of fools gold.

I remember in 1999 when we signed Coryatt, Ismail and Mills after we had signed McIver and Warren the year before. I was so sure that we were going to dominate with the upgrades. We went 8-8.

Conversely, back in 2013 when the Steve-o specials started I was sure that it wouldn't work.

Those who do not learn their history are doomed to repeat it.

Further this draft is deep in DE through 2 rounds and deep at DB through the third day. This is the most athletic DB class I have ever seen.

We already had starters at CB, S, and DE. If you want to upgrade Heath, DLaw, or Scandrick I don't blame you but the second tier talent at best you are going to get in FA are going to be little more than progress stoppers for the guys we draft. Carroll and Heath not so much.

 

[waldoputty]

smh

We stopped the FA splashes after Carr and started the Steve-o specials to fill out holes and built the starting unit through the draft. We have had quite a bit of success yet people want to go back to the old days of fools gold.

I remember in 1999 when we signed Coryatt, Ismail and Mills after we had signed McIver and Warren the year before. I was so sure that we were going to dominate with the upgrades. We went 8-8.

Conversely, back in 2013 when the Steve-o specials started I was sure that it wouldn't work.

Those who do not learn their history are doomed to repeat it.

Further this draft is deep in DE through 2 rounds and deep at DB through the third day. This is the most athletic DB class I have ever seen.

We already had starters at CB, S, and DE. If you want to upgrade Heath, DLaw, or Scandrick I don't blame you but the second tier talent at best you are going to get in FA are going to be little more than progress stoppers for the guys we draft. Carroll and Heath not so much.

The fact is that are more holes than the draft can likely deliver.
You had holes in WR, CB, DE, RT and S.
WR has been addressed but you are not likely to be able to draft players in CB, DE, RT and S that ready to play in 2017 or even 2018.
The 2016 draft was historic and probably the best in team history.
We would have to repeat it to solve our needs.
Furthermore, the talent in OT is bad in the draft and should have been solved using FA.

If they definitively addressed CB and RT in FA, they could trade up for the DE and use lower picks on the S.

Instead we are stuck with god knows what in RT protecting the future - Dak.
That is pennywise pound foolish.
They had plenty of cap flexibility to sign a competent RT particularly Wagner.

A myriad of CBs were available at different price points including Prince and Bouye.
They also had plenty of cap to sign a decent CB, not a CB4 level that may have to play CB2 .

 

[big dog cowboy]

The fact is that are more holes than the draft can likely deliver.

I guess it's a good thing that isn't the only way to acquire talent in the next 6 months before we start playing games that count.

 

[LocimusPrime]

he does more with less.
but he can do even more with more.

That's a true statement. He definitely wouldn't do less with more.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The fact is that are more holes than the draft can likely deliver.
You had holes in WR, CB, DE, RT and S.
WR has been addressed but you are not likely to be able to draft players in CB, DE, RT and S that ready to play in 2017 or even 2018.
The 2016 draft was historic and probably the best in team history.
We would have to repeat it to solve our needs.
Furthermore, the talent in OT is bad in the draft and should have been solved using FA.

If they definitively addressed CB and RT in FA, they could trade up for the DE and use lower picks on the S.

Instead we are stuck with god knows what in RT protecting the future - Dak.
That is pennywise pound foolish.
They had plenty of cap flexibility to sign a competent RT particularly Wagner.

A myriad of CBs were available at different price points including Prince and Bouye.
They also had plenty of cap to sign a decent CB, not a CB4 level that may have to play CB2 .

Move Collins to RT. The tackle talent is bad. You can find OG/C later. Green is also on the roster. Further we are not going to pay an OT $10m.

Prince is a progress stopper and Bouye is a one season wonder who costs more than Carr. Pass on both. And again this is the deepest CB draft in decades. Draft a CB in the first 3 rounds and another one later and we are good.

The DE available were decent players that would require great money plus I am not sure they are going to be better than Irving or contract year DLaw. Pass. And again this draft has like 10 DE that can help us right away.

Trading up is how you end up with a roster with no depth. Unless it is one of the 6ths or 7ths then I want to keep all the picks in this very deep draft. Corner is good through the 5th round. If anything trade down especially if Barnett and Taco are gone and pick up an extra third.

We have bodies at all of those positions and every team in the league has 'needs.' FA isn't all it cracked up to be.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Move Collins to RT. The tackle talent is bad. You can find OG/C later. Green is also on the roster. Further we are not going to pay an OT $10m.

Prince is a progress stopper and Bouye is a one season wonder who costs more than Carr. Pass on both. And again this is the deepest CB draft in decades. Draft a CB in the first 3 rounds and another one later and we are good.

The DE available were decent players that would require great money plus I am not sure they are going to be better than Irving or contract year DLaw. Pass. And again this draft has like 10 DE that can help us right away.

Trading up is how you end up with a roster with no depth. Unless it is one of the 6ths or 7ths then I want to keep all the picks in this very deep draft. Corner is good through the 5th round. If anything trade down especially if Barnett and Taco are gone and pick up an extra third.

We have bodies at all of those positions and every team in the league has 'needs.' FA isn't all it cracked up to be.

You think Collins could play RT? If we were planning on moving him outside, it would've made sense if we were gonna keep Leary. Now that he's gone, I think it would be a given that Collins would take over LG. But if we do think he could play RT, then we might try to resign Cooper.

 

[LocimusPrime]

the key here is not spending above av wins.
it is the broncos up on the top right corner demonstrating that you can buy a superbowl.
furthermore, if their QB was so darn old, they could have bought several more.

By next year, the raiders and Giants will be in the same quadrant as the Broncos and the Falcons. I'd be careful with graphs that use 3 years instead of 5 or 10- probably fits the authors narrative

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You think Collins could play RT? If we were planning on moving him outside, it would've made sense if we were gonna keep Leary. Now that he's gone, I think it would be a given that Collins would take over LG. But if we do think he could play RT, then we might try to resign Cooper.

Or they have no intention on paying that much money to 4 OL.

Nothing is a given. Fact is that it will be easier to find a OG than it will be to find a OT at a reasonable cost or in the draft. Siragusa, Dawkins, Elflein, Lamp, etc in the draft or sign someone like Cooper as you mentioned.

The FA that you want starting at OT cost more than Leary did.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Or they have no intention on paying that much money to 4 OL.

Nothing is a given. Fact is that it will be easier to find a OG than it will be to find a OT at a reasonable cost or in the draft. Siragusa, Dawkins, Elflein, Lamp, etc in the draft or sign someone like Cooper as you mentioned.

The FA that you want starting at OT cost more than Leary did.

Yeah they probably would've let Leary go regardless. I still would like to see Green play RT. He was drafted as basically purely a tackle while Collins was viewed as purely a guard. Too bad he can't seem to stay healthy.

 

[waldoputty]

Move Collins to RT. The tackle talent is bad. You can find OG/C later. Green is also on the roster. Further we are not going to pay an OT $10m.

Prince is a progress stopper and Bouye is a one season wonder who costs more than Carr. Pass on both. And again this is the deepest CB draft in decades. Draft a CB in the first 3 rounds and another one later and we are good.

The DE available were decent players that would require great money plus I am not sure they are going to be better than Irving or contract year DLaw. Pass. And again this draft has like 10 DE that can help us right away.

Trading up is how you end up with a roster with no depth. Unless it is one of the 6ths or 7ths then I want to keep all the picks in this very deep draft. Corner is good through the 5th round. If anything trade down especially if Barnett and Taco are gone and pick up an extra third.

We have bodies at all of those positions and every team in the league has 'needs.' FA isn't all it cracked up to be.

Collins has not shown he can play OT in the NFL. Green was available 1/4 of the season last year. OT for 10M can be accommodated readily in our cap structure for the long term.

There may be 10 DE that are interesting, but fact is DEs typically do not contribute much in their rookie year. You improve your chances if you trade up to get the higher rated ones.

There may be interesting CBs in the first 3 rounds, but what makes most of them better than Prince. You have Bouye or the CB signed by the Pats that could also be fitted into our cap structure in the long term.

Trading up would help ensure that Taco and Barnett are not gone. Trading up loses depth but we have plenty of depth. Counting roster spots from the 65 under contract, we have 43 players that would not be cut (if you do not count the CB from Philly). If you sign a better CB and a RT, we are at 45. Even if we trade up using a 2nd and a 3rd for the 1st, we still may keep 4-5 players from the draft, and we are up to 49-50. Then you would keep 3-4 players from the remaining players from our list of 65 players under contract as well as any UDFA. Availble from the list of 65 includes Moore who I think may be crazy, Ryan Seymour, Ash, Rod Smith and Showers.

Fact of the matter is the team is ready to contend for a superbowl, but needs a few more starters. FA could have netted a RT and CB in addition to the WR. Then you would fill in the DE and S from the draft.
Getting those last remaining players may be painful in terms of cost, but the big picture is winning superbowls, not some type of accounting award.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Collins has not shown he can play OT in the NFL. Green was available 1/4 of the season last year. OT for 10M can be accommodated readily in our cap structure for the long term.

There may be 10 DE that are interesting, but fact is DEs typically do not contribute much in their rookie year. You improve your chances if you trade up to get the higher rated ones.

There may be interesting CBs in the first 3 rounds, but what makes most of them better than Prince. You have Bouye or the CB signed by the Pats that could also be fitted into our cap structure in the long term.

Trading up would help ensure that Taco and Barnett are not gone. Trading up loses depth but we have plenty of depth. Counting roster spots from the 65 under contract, we have 43 players that would not be cut (if you do not count the CB from Philly). If you sign a better CB and a RT, we are at 45. Even if we trade up using a 2nd and a 3rd for the 1st, we still may keep 4-5 players from the draft, and we are up to 49-50. Then you would keep 3-4 players from the remaining players from our list of 65 players under contract as well as any UDFA.

Fact of the matter is the team is ready to contend for a superbowl, but needs a few more starters. FA could have netted a RT and CB in addition to the WR. Then you would fill in the DE and S from the draft.
Getting those last remaining players may be painful in terms of cost, but the big picture is winning superbowls, not some type of accounting award.

The coaches are in a much better shape to say whether or not Collins could play RT. Further he would be the top OL in this draft. You really need to get into your head that they are not going to pay 4 OL top dollar.

The big picture is trying to win SB every year in a sustainable fashion and signing inefficient contracts and not balancing your roster is the opposite of that.

As for corners, Prince is not much better than Carroll and it is obvious that we are moving away from man and towards more zone. Carroll, Brown, and Scandrick all fit that mold. Further the press man corners are always the first to go. We are in good position to find DB help.

I am not worried about Heath starting. A development prospect would suit us fine.

 

[waldoputty]

The coaches are in a much better shape to say whether or not Collins could play RT. Further he would be the top OL in this draft. You really need to get into your head that they are not going to pay 4 OL top dollar.

The big picture is trying to win SB every year in a sustainable fashion and signing inefficient contracts and not balancing your roster is the opposite of that.

As for corners, Prince is not much better than Carroll and it is obvious that we are moving away from man and towards more zone. Carroll, Brown, and Scandrick all fit that mold. Further the press man corners are always the first to go. We are in good position to find DB help.

I am not worried about Heath starting. A development prospect would suit us fine.

the team has been saying collins is a much better og than ot.
may be their tune has changed since free retired.

the big picture is trying to win SB every year. i already showed 3 top FA can be done along with a RT. incorporate a few cheap contracts a year can be readily done especially if you change 3 to 2.

being in good position to get CB help is not experienced proven CB help.

if a development S is all we need, then even more reason to trade up in the 1st using the 2nd and the 3rd to nail the best DE possible.

i even miscounted. we have 44 players that would clearly make the team from the list of 65. if you replace the Philly CB with a better one and add a RT, you are at 45. that only leaves room for 8 players of which most can be accounted for from the draft even if you use a 2nd and a 3rd to move up in the 1st. assuming 4 players from the draft, that only leaves 4 players from the list of 65 plus udfas.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Bottom line, the Cowboys haven't lost anyone that couldn't be replaced. Those that has left got overpaid and the Cowboys were smart to let them walk.

Exactly..........people crying about losing jags is just hilarious. The guys were not worth the coin they were paid, and besides, the real problem with this defense is the d-line, not the secondary. Improve the pass rush and the secondary will look amazing, and the team has tried, I give them credit for trying, but it just hasn't worked out.

Look, this defense is crap because the moves the front office made over the previous couple of seasons never panned out. Hardy was supposed to be our next "Haley", but liked to beat up his girlfriend so that kinda ended that project right there. Then we took a gamble on Gregory to be our elite pass rusher but the dude preferred getting high over playing football, so that ended that project right there as well. Demarcus Laurence now has a bad back, Tyron Crawford got paid and is just going through the motions, and everybody else on the d-line is either a jag or sucks...........exception is Collins, the rookie from Nebraska looks legit.

So our defensive line is a joke, one of the worst in the league. However, there were very few options to fix it in free agency, so this is going to have to be a rebuild job through the draft and that takes time. I know it sucks, but it is what it is.

 

[Noclaf]

I think the biggest problem is how really bad this team has handled the cap for the last decade. Always restructuring contracts will catch up with you and it has.

When you struggle just to get below the cap every year something is very wrong with how you do business

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

the team has been saying collins is a much better og than ot.
may be their tune has changed since free retired.

the big picture is trying to win SB every year. i already showed 3 top FA can be done along with a RT. incorporate a few cheap contracts a year can be readily done especially if you change 3 to 2.

being in good position to get CB help is not experienced proven CB help.

if a development S is all we need, then even more reason to trade up in the 1st using the 2nd and the 3rd to nail the best DE possible.

i even miscounted. we have 44 players that would clearly make the team from the list of 65. if you replace the Philly CB with a better one and add a RT, you are at 45. that only leaves room for 8 players of which most can be accounted for from the draft even if you use a 2nd and a 3rd to move up in the 1st. assuming 4 players from the draft, that only leaves 4 players from the list of 65 plus udfas.

The team said he was more ready for left guard than he was for RT two years ago. They did not say that he was inherently better at guard but rather they felt he was used to the left side because he played LT for years at LSU.

You bring like 90 to camp. There are injuries and such. The roster is 53 and we are unlikely to hit on all 7 draft picks. This is football not ping pong.

Unless you can get into the top 5 there is no DE worth trading up for. And again quality depth is important.

And also again we are not going to pay a RT $10m and the ones you get for $4m you don't want to start.

 

[JoeKing]

Exactly..........people crying about losing jags is just hilarious. The guys were not worth the coin they were paid, and besides, the real problem with this defense is the d-line, not the secondary. Improve the pass rush and the secondary will look amazing, and the team has tried, I give them credit for trying, but it just hasn't worked out.

Look, this defense is crap because the moves the front office made over the previous couple of seasons never panned out. Hardy was supposed to be our next "Haley", but liked to beat up his girlfriend so that kinda ended that project right there. Then we took a gamble on Gregory to be our elite pass rusher but the dude preferred getting high over playing football, so that ended that project right there as well. Demarcus Laurence now has a bad back, Tyron Crawford got paid and is just going through the motions, and everybody else on the d-line is either a jag or sucks...........exception is Collins, the rookie from Nebraska looks legit.

So our defensive line is a joke, one of the worst in the league. However, there were very few options to fix it in free agency, so this is going to have to be a rebuild job through the draft and that takes time. I know it sucks, but it is what it is.

Do you not understand that our defense gave up the 5th least amount of points last season and was ranked #1 vs the run? Those are the facts, look them up yourself if you doubt them. Your hyperbole is ridiculous. We have work to do on defense, no doubt but the rebuilt job you are making up is ridiculous. "Our defensive line is a joke"?... no your rhetoric is a joke.

 

[JoeKing]

I believe the FO has a good handle on the management of this team. The Cowboys model is to draft and develop talent and they were never going to be able to re-sign everyone... so our FA losses were anticipated. The way this process works, at this time of year many of our free agents will find other teams where they get paid market value or better which we can not do and shouldn't. So the time of the question, "Are the Cowboys losing ground?" is suspect. If we keep the current system going(and there is no reason to think it won't) at this time of year we will always see many of our free agents find other teams for more money than we can pay. Folks need to understand the FO will replace that talent and the coaches will develop it.

 

[Doomsday101]

While I agree with your entire post and especially this, my only concern is that guys that are leaving, for the most played A LOT of snaps: both safeties, who knows about the CB's right now, Leary, no Romo (I know, I know, but he was a TERRIFIC safety valve especially compared to the trash that was behind him for years before DAK)....there are A LOT of snaps to replace....the "big" signing so far is TWill and he was our 4th, sometimes 5th receiver....not nervous just yet, but would like some of the holes filled in a little better to make the draft a BPA draft and not bDpa....

The same guys many here have complained about and wanted shipped out, except for Leary. All I have heard is Church can't cover and the DL players were JAGS. Mo can't stay healthy and Carr was a JAG and expensive. Myself I hate to see some of these guys go but it is part of FA and I think some of the contract they are getting offered is more than many would want to pay for players they seem to have problems with. I just tend to think most of the high priced FA tend not to live up to the contract and often times does not make an overall difference in terms of team improvement.

 

[Doomsday101]

I believe the FO has a good handle on the management of this team. The Cowboys model is to draft and develop talent and they were never going to be able to re-sign everyone... so our FA losses were anticipated. The way this process works, at this time of year many of our free agents will find other teams where they get paid market value or better which we can not do and shouldn't. So the time of the question, "Are the Cowboys losing ground?" is suspect. If we keep the current system going(and there is no reason to think it won't) at this time of year we will always see many of our free agents find other teams for more money than we can pay. Folks need to understand the FO will replace that talent and the coaches will develop it.

True but I think Cowboys will be able to keep a core group together. Jones paid out big money to guys like Tyron Smith, he paid guys like Romo and Witten, he seems to be investing in the future with Frederick and Martin. In the process of it all you are right you will lose some FA but people tend to overlook the contracts some core players are getting.

 

[haleyrules]

he does more with less.
but he can do even more with more.

That makes perfect sense. The club is still in good shape.