Cowboys losing Ground? For the Record . reinforces how 2016 was a missed opportunity ***MERGED***

[aria]

Defense did not look great WC game where they were rolled for 38 points. Did their overall defense improve sure but the end results still was not great given what they spent. Their pass defense was ranked 23rd last year

True, I also think a large part of their defense not doing as well was due to their pitiful, laughable joke of an offense. Hard to do anything when your offense is constantly 3 and out.

I couldn't care less how little or how much these other trams spend in FA but I'm not going to bash a team that made huge improvements in FA over the course of a year when our defense (specifically secondary) has been our weakest link and the joke of the NFL for years yet we haven't made any improvements through the draft, FA, trades or otherwise.

 

[haleyrules]

Oh, so unless you win a playiff game it's considered nothing? Got it. Building a team for the future counts for nothing. In your mind, Dallas and Cleveland are one and the same. Drafting Dak, Zeke...putting together a great O line means nothing unless they win a playoff game.

Did you read the post. It was about the Giants spending money on their Defense.

 

[haleyrules]

Oh, so unless you win a playiff game it's considered nothing? Got it. Building a team for the future counts for nothing. In your mind, Dallas and Cleveland are one and the same. Drafting Dak, Zeke...putting together a great O line means nothing unless they win a playoff game.

You understand that Prescott, Elliott and the OL were drafted. The premise of the post was meant to say that wild FA spending does not guarantee success when it really counts.

 

[aria]

Did you read the post. It was about the Giants spending money on their Defense.

I understand that and I'm saying although they spent a lot of money on their defense I don't think it was for nothing. It made an immediate impact, carried their pathetic offense to the playoffs and simultaneously locked down some great players in long term contracts. That was all done even when their offense lead the league (or close to it) in 3 and outs.

What scares me is if they actually got their offense to be even mediocre they would be a scary team and I think their defense woukd be even more aggressive. Luckily they haven't done squat about their O line and they still have Eli so we should be ok.

 

[aria]

You understand that Prescott, Elliott and the OL were drafted. The premise of the post was meant to say that wild FA spending does not guarantee success when it really counts.

No, it doesn't guarantee success but to say it never pays off or was all for nothing because a team didn't win a playoff game I disagree with.

 

[JoeKing]

True, I also think a large part of their defense not doing as well was due to their pitiful, laughable joke of an offense. Hard to do anything when your offense is constantly 3 and out.

I couldn't care less how little or how much these other trams spend in FA but I'm not going to bash a team that made huge improvements in FA over the course of a year when our defense (specifically secondary) has been our weakest link and the joke of the NFL for years yet we haven't made any improvements through the draft, FA, trades or otherwise.

Where would you prefer our weakest link to be? No matter how good any team is, they still have a weak link so to your point, where do you prefer it to be? Please understand the Cowboys defense gave up the 5th least amount of points last season and was ranked #1 vs the run. You make a good observation in specifying the secondary as our weakest link... great poster!!

 

[Brooksey]

Thread topic... "Are the Cowboys losing ground?"
What is the relation between your post and the thread topic?

I posted to wrong thread..sorry man lol

 

[JoeKing]

I posted to wrong thread..sorry man lol

It's okay. It happens, I've even done it myself. LOL, it's all good.

 

[aria]

Where would you prefer our weakest link to be? No matter how good any team is, they still have a weak link so to your point, where do you prefer it to be? Please understand the Cowboys defense gave up the 5th least amount of points last season and was ranked #1 vs the run. You make a good observation in specifying the secondary as our weakest link... great poster!!

If you actually read my post history you'll see that I defended our D line and when all these people were celebrating that certain players were leaving I was voicing my concern and told them to be careful what they wish for.

Based on our division I would prefer the Cowboys focus on the secondary. Every other team in the NFCE is loading up at receiver yet their running game is woeful. Why do you think that is?

If I had to chose, I would overhaul the secondary and let the weak link be our D line. I think our D line didn't get enough credit but lets be honest, the NFCE teams we played 6 times last year weren't running teams which padded our stats. The Giants just sucked all over offense and Washington threw everywhere as did GB until they shut it down and started trying to run the ball for some inexplicable reason.

Other teams in our division are building their roster to attack this secondary. BTW, why do you think our D had the 5th fewest points scored against them? Was it because they were that good or maybe, just maybe, our offense dominated the time of possession and kept the other teams offense off the field by chewing up the clock? Crazy thought, I know.

But hey, thanks for the personal attack. Your post was extremely well thought out with criticism.

 

[waldoputty]

The team said he was more ready for left guard than he was for RT two years ago. They did not say that he was inherently better at guard but rather they felt he was used to the left side because he played LT for years at LSU.

You bring like 90 to camp. There are injuries and such. The roster is 53 and we are unlikely to hit on all 7 draft picks. This is football not ping pong.

Unless you can get into the top 5 there is no DE worth trading up for. And again quality depth is important.

And also again we are not going to pay a RT $10m and the ones you get for $4m you don't want to start.

i recall the team saying Collins should not move to RT
certainly enough of us were clamoring for at least trying it and no cigar.

come on fuzzy.
on one hand, you say "we are unlikely to hit on all 7 draft picks"
at the same time, you disagree with trading up to improve our chances in nailing down the DE.
you said yourself trade down if we miss taco and barnett
so you do recognize the difference between the difference players available.

also when you say "we are unlikely to hit on all 7 draft pics"
then you want those all those needs to be met by the draft.
your own posts are not even consistent with even other on this topic.

fact of the matter is that you know we had the $ to sign more high end FAs - as you have stated it in some posts.
and you darn well know that we are not going to be able to do it all in the draft.
we all would be happy if the draft brought back a good DE (note probably not a daddy) and a decent S.
we are drafting at 28 not 4.
furthermore, does anyone expect us to repeat the success of 2016, which was surreal.

if indeed we can repeat 2016 in 2017, then we can do whatever we want.
that is because we can expect 5 good/probowl type players in every draft.
and only need to dip in FA every once in a while for an unexpected unplanned need like Free retiring right before start of start of FA.

i will plug the number player in the model and even use your 4 or so cheap FA adds per season.
then we shall see how much the team left off the bone in the name of value.
penny wise pound foolish thinking about the 2-3 years left of Dez's prime and the heart of Zeke's prime.
that does not optimize our chances of winning the most # of superbowls we can.

 

[JoeKing]

If you actually read my post history you'll see that I defended our D line and when all these people were celebrating that certain players were leaving I was voicing my concern and told them to be careful what they wish for.

Based on our division I would prefer the Cowboys focus on the secondary. Every other team in the NFCE is loading up at receiver yet their running game is woeful. Why do you think that is?

If I had to chose, I would overhaul the secondary and let the weak link be our D line. I think our D line didn't get enough credit but lets be honest, the NFCE teams we played 6 times last year weren't running teams which padded our stats. The Giants just sucked all over offense and Washington threw everywhere as did GB until they shut it down and started trying to run the ball for some inexplicable reason.

Other teams in our division are building their roster to attack this secondary. BTW, why do you think our D had the 5th fewest points scored against them? Was it because they were that good or maybe, just maybe, our offense dominated the time of possession and kept the other teams offense off the field by chewing up the clock? Crazy thought, I know.

But hey, thanks for the personal attack. Your post was extremely well thought out with criticism.

Astute observations. I can't argue with a single thing you've said there without being a hypocrite.

 

[ChronicCowboy]

Carroll was a bad signing made out of desperation. Obviously Carr and Claiborne are asking for way more than we think they're worth. I still hope we sign one back. No matter we need young talent at CB so look for it to be addressed early and often in the draft.

 

[waldoputty]

Carroll was a bad signing made out of desperation. Obviously Carr and Claiborne are asking for way more than we think they're worth. I still hope we sign one back. No matter we need young talent at CB so look for it to be addressed early and often in the draft.

there should have been no desperation.
they could easily have signed a CB with double the AAV or more.
it is more after 2014 where they let demarco go and not properly replaced him.
it is pure hubris that they drank their own coolaid that they can repeat the historic draft of 2016 in 2017.
when we will likely find out, if they can repeat that formula in 2017, then we can indeed whatever we want and win the superbowl every year while spending pennies in the FA.
more likely, we will take a small step back to between 10-6 / 12-4 and be one and out or two and out.
what a waste of Dez's remaining prime and the heart of Zeke's prime.

 

[Sydla]

smh

We stopped the FA splashes after Carr and started the Steve-o specials to fill out holes and built the starting unit through the draft. We have had quite a bit of success yet people want to go back to the old days of fools gold.

I remember in 1999 when we signed Coryatt, Ismail and Mills after we had signed McIver and Warren the year before. I was so sure that we were going to dominate with the upgrades. We went 8-8.

Conversely, back in 2013 when the Steve-o specials started I was sure that it wouldn't work.

Those who do not learn their history are doomed to repeat it.

Further this draft is deep in DE through 2 rounds and deep at DB through the third day. This is the most athletic DB class I have ever seen.

We already had starters at CB, S, and DE. If you want to upgrade Heath, DLaw, or Scandrick I don't blame you but the second tier talent at best you are going to get in FA are going to be little more than progress stoppers for the guys we draft. Carroll and Heath not so much.

Well for one, no one is saying that they should just spend crazily in free agency and try to land all the top players. That's a strawman argument that people keep bringing up every time we have this discussion. But they could spend a bit more than hitting the bargain bin to try to sure up a place without having to need the draft to deliver impact players almost immediately at 3-4 spots on defense.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

We have an extra second-round and extra fourth-round pick each being added to our defense this year. That's significant. Plus whatever we get from this year's draft. Carroll will be an upgrade from Carr. If we get one starter for the secondary from this draft we will have a better defense in 2017. Even without that we should be at least on par.

My biggest concern is RT in the running game because let's face it, Free was a liability in the passing game.

 

[chicago JK]

Not losing ground. Although we haven't proven in a long time that we can put back to back good seasons. Most teams don't but the Cowboys have been pretty good at not being good two years in a row.

I have no problem with not paying big bucks in free agency. Outside of MO, The Cowboys have done good drafting in the first round and if they continue to progress I would like to resign all of them. When you miss on first round picks or do not resign them, that makes it much easier to pay big money in FA (See Jacksonville).

Although that is not to say the guys we lost will not hurt. You can always do worse with the guys you are replacing. I believe Church is a good leader as well. So while I would not have paid him that salary, his intangible value is something that should not be discounted.

 

[waldoputty]

We have an extra second-round and extra fourth-round pick each being added to our defense this year. That's significant. Plus whatever we get from this year's draft. Carroll will be an upgrade from Carr. If we get one starter for the secondary from this draft we will have a better defense in 2017. Even without that we should be at least on par.

My biggest concern is RT in the running game because let's face it, Free was a liability in the passing game.

those extra picks were coming no matter what we did in FA.
i think we need to focus on the big picture after 13-3, instead of reading the value chart.
i dont think many will agree carroll is an upgrade.
i would much rather settle for protect Dak than the running game.
the 2017 team construction is probably inadequate to seriously challenge for the superbowl.
much rather just protect our key assets and lose more games to get the picks we need in 2018

 

[waldoputty]

Well for one, no one is saying that they should just spend crazily in free agency and try to land all the top players. That's a strawman argument that people keep bringing up every time we have this discussion. But they could spend a bit more than hitting the bargain bin to try to sure up a place without having to need the draft to deliver impact players almost immediately at 3-4 spots on defense.

you can say it is a strawman.
fact is no one was able to disprove that we could have signed those FAs without jeopardizing your future.
i will upgrade the cap model and make it available to whoever wants it to argue with facts.

 

[windward]

First off, I did not. Last season, I said 10-6.

New England quiet during free agency? LOL

Randy Moss, Chris Long, Brandin Cooks, Martellus Bennett, Lagarette Blount, Corey Dillon, Brandon Lloyd, Donte Stallworth, Albert Haynesworth, Brian Waters, Will Allen, Alge Crumpler, Fred Taylor, Joey Galloway.......

I could go on and on.

Lol some of those players were free agent busts for New England.

 

[windward]

The team should have had one priority this offseason, maintain the defense and upgrade the pass rush.

Replacing should mean upgrading, don't see it with what has been done thus far in free agency.

Now, thanks to no cap space, they are going to have to hit it in the draft, all while getting weaker on the defense. And they now need a RT.

You keep repeating this lie that we have no cap space.