Great mailbag question that never had occurred to me

[_sturt_]

... and contrary to the brush-off that the "experts" essentially give, it makes complete sense in the context of how hard it is to decide on who the 53rd player is going to be every August, and all of the coaches' talk the rest of the year about the joys of position flex.

Then, how about all the hub-bub last season when... wasn't it Philly?... who lost their primary and back-up long snappers, and ended up with... was it a RB or WR?... filling in, and screwing up?

Dunno. Seems very tempting to ask "are we really just doing it this way because it's how it's always been done?," and to start right now this time of year grooming a couple of players to compete for the job who might otherwise be on the fence when preseason ends.

 

[Howboutdemcowboys31]

L.P. is not someone I would look to replace for an added roster spot. We don't need 4 rbs this season (nor did we last)

 

[erod]

L.P. is literally 100 percent perfect with his snaps since he got here. That's unfathomable.

Imagine it being only 95%. That could cost you two games a year. Minimum.

 

[NorthTexan95]

Before LP we signed a free agent tight end from the Rams who was also a solid deep snapper. In one of the first games he was lost for the year due to an injury and we fell into deep snapping hell. Keeping the deep snapper healthy is another big reason not to have him play another position.

 

[NorthTexan95]

L.P. is not someone I would look to replace for an added roster spot. We don't need 4 rbs this season (nor did we last)

There was that one snap last season when he was .003286 mm off target.

 

[BoysfanfromCanada]

There was that one snap last season when he was .003286 mm off target.

Hey, it was raining and windy. Give him a break

 

[_sturt_]

All I'm suggesting is you hold the competition and let those chips fall where they may. If the incumbent wins, so be it. But particularly where a fence-sitting player is concerned, you don't really lose a lot by exploring the possibility, and to the contrary, you go into the season maybe with a little more reason for confidence that no matter what happens to the first string guy, you've got back-ups you can go to (...assuming one or more of those fence-sitters does make the team after all).

 

[Alexander]

Before LP we signed a free agent tight end from the Rams who was also a solid deep snapper. In one of the first games he was lost for the year due to an injury and we fell into deep snapping hell. Keeping the deep snapper healthy is another big reason not to have him play another position.

Once you have a good long snapper, a smart team keeps them at all costs. Practically all teams have a dedicated one. If they try to get cute, they get burned.

Dallas has been pretty fortunate. Dale Hellestrae to Jeff Robinson to eventually Ladouceur.

But when they tried to get cute by cutting Robinson to save $1M and instead went with Jon Condo who had a streak of issues.

"This is a little bit like the yips in golf," Parcells said. "He can do it. It's the pressure of the situation, I think, is starting to get to him. And then the more problems he has, the worse the situation got."

Interestingly enough Condo went on to earn two Pro Bowls thereafter.

It came a few weeks later in the most surprising of ways. Because of a scheduling quirk, the Cowboys had games in San Francisco and Oakland on consecutive weekends and decided to spend the days in-between practicing in nearby San Jose. During the trip, they released their snapper and started looking for a new one. A Dallas player who shared the same agent as Ladouceur alerted the agent who put in a call. An invitation was extended and Ladouceur drove that night to the team hotel. The next morning he stepped into a team van headed to practice only to find the team’s omnipotent coach Bill Parcells and owner Jerry Jones a row in front of him.

“I was a Cal guy, I had long, blond hair” Ladouceur recalls with a laugh.

“We know about you,” Parcells said to him that day.

And all Ladouceur could think was: “What have I gotten myself into?”

But he survived. He nailed his snaps in that first game and then the others that followed. After the season, the Cowboys gave him a one-year contract and then another and soon he was the player whose roster spot was never questioned. “It’s definitely been a blessing,” says Ladouceur. “Every day I think about Coach Parcells saying yes. I saw him a couple years ago at the hall of fame game and I thanked him”

Parcells gave way to Wade Phillips who gave way to Jason Garrett and still Ladouceur remained. There’s never a need for a good long snapper until you need him.

Moral of the story, get a good one. Pay them. And keep paying them as long as you can.

Try to develop one in camps and maybe keep tabs on them if your old guy eventually retires. But forcing competition and then going with the younger cheaper player may not be all that smart. But have one around, maybe bring back on a futures contract the following year if they are still around.

We have tried the last few years with Casey Kreiter (now with Denver) and Charley Hughlett (now with the Browns).

Teams are even drafting them now, the Patriots did in 2016 (Joe Carmona) and the Steelers this year (Colin Holba).

 

[Proximo]

Before LP we signed a free agent tight end from the Rams who was also a solid deep snapper. In one of the first games he was lost for the year due to an injury and we fell into deep snapping hell. Keeping the deep snapper healthy is another big reason not to have him play another position.

1st thing I thought too. Having your primary long snapper doing double duty at some other position almost forces you to then take yet another "regular" position player and have them also train and be at least competent at long snapping.

So now you're wasting multiple players' time with long snap practice.

I'd keep it as ONE guy doing it, and that's all he does. Very little chance the long snapper gets injured.

Maybe if you randomly have another guy on the roster who can also long snap he becomes your contingency plan. Sort of like how Jeff Heath could've tried kicking a FG for us if needed last year.

 

[Alexander]

randomly have another guy on the roster who can also long snap he becomes your contingency plan. Sort of like how Jeff Heath could've tried kicking a FG for us if needed last year.

We have two that are considered "emergency" long snappers. Emmett Cleary and Geoff Swaim.

 

[Hardline]

There's three things that must happen to successfully make an extra point or feild goal.

Snap
Hold
Kick

I'm not taking a chance on weakening any of the three.

 

[diefree666]

All I'm suggesting is you hold the competition and let those chips fall where they may. If the incumbent wins, so be it. But particularly where a fence-sitting player is concerned, you don't really lose a lot by exploring the possibility, and to the contrary, you go into the season maybe with a little more reason for confidence that no matter what happens to the first string guy, you've got back-ups you can go to (...assuming one or more of those fence-sitters does make the team after all).

You never heard of the term

"If it AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!"

 

[Scotman]

I remember the days before he got here. You held your breath with every snap. This guys makes a difference on this team.

 

[Setackin]

u would think Center would be the natural position to play center....

 

[Alexander]

u would think Center would be the natural position to play center....

Long snapper is not the same thing as playing center. Centers have to be perform shotgun snaps, but they are not doing it with two hands nor are they expected to be accurate, deliver the ball with the laces in the right position, have the appropriate velocity and placement etc.

 

[Proof]

Once you have a good long snapper, a smart team keeps them at all costs. Practically all teams have a dedicated one. If they try to get cute, they get burned.

Dallas has been pretty fortunate. Dale Hellestrae to Jeff Robinson to eventually Ladouceur.

But when they tried to get cute by cutting Robinson to save $1M and instead went with Jon Condo who had a streak of issues.



Interestingly enough Condo went on to earn two Pro Bowls thereafter.



Moral of the story, get a good one. Pay them. And keep paying them as long as you can.

Try to develop one in camps and maybe keep tabs on them if your old guy eventually retires. But forcing competition and then going with the younger cheaper player may not be all that smart. But have one around, maybe bring back on a futures contract the following year if they are still around.

We have tried the last few years with Casey Kreiter (now with Denver) and Charley Hughlett (now with the Browns).

Teams are even drafting them now, the Patriots did in 2016 (Joe Carmona) and the Steelers this year (Colin Holba).

Just out of curiosity, are you a long snapper? I'm more than a little impressed with your deep insight. I thought I was an obsessive fan, and yet you know the detailed history of our long snappers over the past 15 years. That's wild

 

[Longboysfan]

There was that one snap last season when he was .003286 mm off target.

What was the fine for that?

 

[Cowboy4ever]

I was both a center and long snapper when I played. I started as the long snapper my freshman year in HS and did it the entire 4 years. I started as the center in 10th grade and did both duties for the next 3 years. Shot gun, fieldgoals and punts, I snapped every one of them. In my 4 years, only one bad snap. It's not that difficult to learn and do. It only takes practice. I can appreciate how good LP is. He is outstanding and I am glad we have someone like him. But to act like it is some great athletic thing to accomplish, its not. Give me 3 months and I would have Zeke making perfect snaps every time. I personally view it has a waste of a spot. A spot that could be used on a future prospect that wouldn't make it to the practice squad for example. I know everyone will disagree and stuff because every team has one, etc. I get it. I just don't buy into it. Hell I am 47 years old and I would still be accurate on at least 95% of my snaps today.

 

[_sturt_]

I was both a center and long snapper when I played. I started as the long snapper my freshman year in HS and did it the entire 4 years. I started as the center in 10th grade and did both duties for the next 3 years. Shot gun, fieldgoals and punts, I snapped every one of them. In my 4 years, only one bad snap. It's not that difficult to learn and do. It only takes practice. I can appreciate how good LP is. He is outstanding and I am glad we have someone like him. But to act like it is some great athletic thing to accomplish, its not. Give me 3 months and I would have Zeke making perfect snaps every time. I personally view it has a waste of a spot. A spot that could be used on a future prospect that wouldn't make it to the practice squad for example. I know everyone will disagree and stuff because every team has one, etc. I get it. I just don't buy into it. Hell I am 47 years old and I would still be accurate on at least 95% of my snaps today.

Wellllllll.... not evvvvvveryone. There's meeeeee....

I know most of us watch a lot of college football, and I think it's fairly rare that the LS is dedicated to that one role even though they're not limited to the roster size limitations... and notably, fairly rare that we see even the poorest teams' LS screw up.

 

[Setackin]

Long snapper is not the same thing as playing center. Centers have to be perform shotgun snaps, but they are not doing it with two hands nor are they expected to be accurate, deliver the ball with the laces in the right position, have the appropriate velocity and placement etc.

Which is why I said "you would think"....