Boom or Bust

FuzzyLumpkins

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Not that you should know this already, but I've been saying for awhile Evans would be a reach at 19, as well. That said, gun to my head, if I had to choose between LVE and Evans, I would choose Evans. Not because of the school, not because of the stats, but because of how I saw him play and the bad intentions he hits with.

However, if I had my ultimate choice, I would have preferred the Cowboys accept that trade down offer that is now being reported.

So you liked Evans better because he hits harder? That is great and all but LVE forced more fumbles and was much more consistent in his tackling. He had more picks and actually demonstrates instincts in coverage too.

If this was 1990 then Evans is obviously the better prospect but LB even 2 down LB have to cover.

The risk associated with LVE is that he won't be able to learn or get strong enough to take on blocks. There is not a LBer in the top 100 of the past two years that doesn't have that risk. LVE has the size and strength to do it and for all of the claims of his lack of physicality, he plays off blocks and doesn't shy from contact.

BSU asks their front 7 to attack OL like so:



Get on the shoulder and get upfield. By the end of the season LVE had gotten the technique down. People want to see him stack and play both sides but with his frame he should have no issue learning the technique.

What is beautiful is that our DC asks his front 7 guys to do the same thing Boise had him doing.
 

jday

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They are trying to compare him to the purple drinker but didn't see the pop at the end the the royal badness brought.
Yeah...I'm getting a bit tired of these ridiculous comparisons. All you have to do is watch Rolando McClain or Brian Urlacher (the guy the Cowboys are trying to sell him as) to know that's not LVE's game at all.
 

jday

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So you liked Evans better because he hits harder? That is great and all but LVE forced more fumbles and was much more consistent in his tackling. He had more picks and actually demonstrates instincts in coverage too.

If this was 1990 then Evans is obviously the better prospect but LB even 2 down LB have to cover.

The risk associated with LVE is that he won't be able to learn or get strong enough to take on blocks. There is not a LBer in the top 100 of the past two years that doesn't have that risk. LVE has the size and strength to do it and for all of the claims of his lack of physicality, he plays off blocks and doesn't shy from contact.

BSU asks their front 7 to attack OL like so:



Get on the shoulder and get upfield. By the end of the season LVE had gotten the technique down. People want to see him stack and play both sides but with his frame he should have no issue learning the technique.

What is beautiful is that our DC asks his front 7 guys to do the same thing Boise had him doing.

Did you read the OP?
 

jday

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i was going to not watch anything cowboys until late Saturday night so all the picks were in and i would not sweat each round...but who am i kidding...my eyes glued to the computer assesing ever pick from every team...and on pins and needles waiting for draft to shart today....man i need to get a life
You and I both, brother! :thumbup:
 

jday

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I see... I enjoyed the effort put into this.

"Do you know who is the greatest Detective of all? Let me tell you: it's not Sherlock Holmes... Not even close. Rank amateur. Batman? We're already there! No... Not even the World's Greatest Detective. Let me tell you who the Greatest Detective ever is: Time.

Pretty anti-climatic, huh? I know... the truth usually is." - Corso
I suppose the waiting game is the one thing every Cowboy fan now has in common.
 

jday

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yup LVE and his ability to play off blocks is no more of a BUST potential than any other LB of the past two years.
I didn't even talk about his supposed inability to get off blocks, so your statement suggesting you did is a bit perplexing.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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I didn't even talk about his supposed inability to get off blocks, so your statement suggesting you did is a bit perplexing.

I'm trying to figure out where you think there is bust potential then. His tackling and coverage ability/instincts are good enough for the NFL already. He doesn't bite on playfakes and by the end of last season his play diagnosis was on point as he was beating OL to the punch routinely.

What is he only potential on?
 

cern

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I like the op's posts but would question If he thinks will mcclay just blew it on this guy. Sounds like he's very coachable. If that's the case he should be fine. I think it was a great pick.
 

Point-of-the-Star

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In the wake of a disappointing first round experience for yours truly, I feel it is important now that I clarify my position on Leighton Vander Esch. From day one I recognized the potential (both BOOM & bust)…and therein is the rub. I don’t like drafting “potential” in the first round; my preference is known commodities…potential selections are better suited for the third and later; I want for-sure starters in the first two rounds. At the end of the day, I believe drafting for potential (and potential alone) will always be a suckers bet…even if it should somehow payoff in the long run. And make no mistake, if there is in fact a payoff, it most likely will be a year or two down the round.


Now that LVE is a Cowboy, I will absolutely be rooting for him; even if there will be a continued reluctance on my part to fully buy in to what the Cowboys are now trying to sell to the Cowboys faithful (e.g. Brian Urlacher 2.0 – imagine an eye roll deeper than Mariana’s Trench and you’ll have some conception of how I feel about that unfair comparison).


In an effort to be both objective and unbiased, in the following I will break down what I actually like about LVE and rehash why I wasn’t thrilled. In effort to end on a positive note, I will begin with the bad news:


Athlete VS Football Player



About 3 to 5 seasons ago (I can’t rightly remember exactly where my view shifted), I would have been elated with this pick; there was a time I was enamored with athleticism and SPARQ. I would chart all the various 40 times, lifts, jumps, and drill times and select the best athletes as my pet cat regardless of what the player showed on tape, level of competition they faced, and mental makeup.


“America is all about speed, hot nasty bad(explicit) speed!”


~ Eleanor Roosevelt ~


Likely as a result of the unrealistic algorithm that drives the video game Madden Football, speed was the most important attribute in my view. But in real life, as many of us have already learned, a player’s overall speed is counter-balanced by instincts and football IQ. Another way to represent this paradox (as I have done repeatedly over the last few weeks):


Speed – Football IQ/Instincts = Running fast in the wrong direction.


Listening to 105.3 The Fan interview LVE last night, I was encouraged to learn he is no stranger to watching film; before he joined the 8-man football league his school offers, he was so eager to get on the field that he started in their film room. He further stated that practice did not change with his graduation into the college ranks and credits his late junior year accelerated ascension to that habit. If that proves to be true on the same level that Sean Lee studies film, then the Cowboys absolutely knocked that pick out of the ball park. But before you get your hopes up, the interviewer did lead the witness into that answer, so time will tell if that proves to be true. It would not be the first time a newly minted draft pick merely said what he believed the fans wanted to hear.


Killer Instinct



For all the athleticism LVE possesses, that athleticism in my view rarely shows up on tape. Mind you, I’m not talking about his side line to side line speed; he has that in spades. What I’m talking about is Killer Instinct.


If you are anything like me, in the days following the draft, you will be reading and watching every evaluation and game tape you can find on the Cowboys selections. If I may, I would like to help direct your studies a tad bit here: If the evaluator in question you are watching or reading at any point describes Leighton Vander Esch as a “Thumper” stop reading and watching immediately. This person either didn’t actually watch the tape or has no idea what he or she is talking about.


I will be diving further into LVE than what I did previous to what the Cowboys drafted him, but in what I have watched so far, he tackles like a calf-roper. I’ve used this analogy a few times, but if you are unfamiliar with that particular Rodeo event, here’s what that looks like:


OBOUwj.gif



Leighton, from what I saw, doesn’t hit; he wraps up and drags down. For some fans, all you may care about is whether or not he was credited with the tackle. If that’s your only concern, you will love Leighton Vander Esch. He was a tackling machine at Idaho and put up unworldly numbers in his one and only season of starting (91 solo, 50 assist, 8.5 tackles for loss, 4 sacks and 2 interceptions). However, my preference are players (such as Rashaan Evans) that hit with bad intentions. To be fair, bad-intention hitters often have the tendency to be overly-aggressive and not wrap up following their hit, which can lead to them launching at empty air, as the ball carrier moves around them. That is a fair criticism of my preference; I’ll accept that.


But I like players that hit and play with that attitude (especially my MLB) because of the galvanizing effect a good solid hit can have on the entire defense. We’ve witnessed what I’m talking about. A better way of probably explaining it would be to call it a Blood-in-the-Water-Hit. It’s that hit that gets the juices of the entire defense going. Of a sudden, you see the other 10 players wanting to get in a good hit on the opposition. And when that happens, the opposition will start to wilt and second guess their own gameplan. Running backs will think twice about running up the middle. Receivers will allow footsteps to affect their focus on bringing the ball in whilst crossing the middle.


On paper, as the aforementioned stats should suggest, LVE looks amazing. But when you sit down and watch those stats being garnered in action (if you are anything like me) you may come away less than impressed.


Injury Concern



There are reports that indicate he may have a lingering spinal/neck issue. Those reports have since been dismissed, LVE stating last night during his interview that he has no idea where those reports came from but last he checked Mayock is not a doctor…whatever that means. My guess is this may be one of those rare cases where there is smoke but no fire. That said, it wouldn’t be the first time when a young player decided it was better to be less than truthful about his health situation then forego lots and lots of money.



RKGollyG


With my concerns now in the rear-view, let’s dive into what likely attracted Dallas to Mr. Esch. If you have watched this kid in interviews and/or read about his lockerroom-presence, one of the things that jumps out at you is his clean-cut well-behaved manner. It’s like someone shook a VHS tape of Leave it to Beaver and LVE fell out.


Clearly this is one of the things Garrett really likes about the kid. As my “Killer Instinct” section indicated, for me this is a bit of a red flag, but to be fair, Demarcus Ware had this same exact vibe. So just because he has that demeanor of a gentle-giant, doesn’t necessarily mean he doesn’t have a special game face for when the whistle blows. Sean Lee clearly has that switch…maybe LVE does too.


Cover Me


In Rashaan Evans VS Leighton Vander Esch, I pointed out that the traits the specifically separates Evans from Esch, is Esch’s noted abilities in coverage. If you are one of those who feels the Cowboys should be more focused on shutting down the oppositions pass in this pass-happy league, then you will be thrilled to know that the Cowboys just might have landed the best coverage linebacker in the whole draft. Having said that, that’s not necessarily saying much because from what I’ve watched of the linebackers that were available this year, that is not something many were asked to do a lot of for their perspective teams. I provide that last disclaimer, because I don’t want to unfairly instill in Cowboys fans a false sense of his abilities.


That said, because of his elite athleticism, he is able to run with most running backs and tight ends in coverage, but I don’t think we would want him following anyone deep; eventually he will get beat. Ideally, the Cowboys will use him more in zone where he can use both his impressive size (6’4”) and fast-for-his-size speed (4.65 forty at 256 lbs is elite) to clog up passing lanes underneath. In this capacity, he could be very valuable to the Cowboys, particularly on 3rd down.


Wrap It Up



As you may have guessed, it’s not like I’m standing on the ledge with this pick; there is a lot to like about Leighton Vander Esch. When you get right down to it, my issue is more about personal preferences as opposed to me knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt he will be a bust. I will say the ingredients you would use to create a bust are definitely there, but until he comes out of the oven after the next 3 years, it’s really hard to say what he will be. With Sean Lee as his mentor, there is good reason to believe he could at the very least turn out to be solid, which I could live with.


Thoughts?

All in all a good breakdown. I have no problem with it nor a problem with the pick.
 

GORICO

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In the wake of a disappointing first round experience for yours truly, I feel it is important now that I clarify my position on Leighton Vander Esch. From day one I recognized the potential (both BOOM & bust)…and therein is the rub. I don’t like drafting “potential” in the first round; my preference is known commodities…potential selections are better suited for the third and later; I want for-sure starters in the first two rounds. At the end of the day, I believe drafting for potential (and potential alone) will always be a suckers bet…even if it should somehow payoff in the long run. And make no mistake, if there is in fact a payoff, it most likely will be a year or two down the round.


Now that LVE is a Cowboy, I will absolutely be rooting for him; even if there will be a continued reluctance on my part to fully buy in to what the Cowboys are now trying to sell to the Cowboys faithful (e.g. Brian Urlacher 2.0 – imagine an eye roll deeper than Mariana’s Trench and you’ll have some conception of how I feel about that unfair comparison).


In an effort to be both objective and unbiased, in the following I will break down what I actually like about LVE and rehash why I wasn’t thrilled. In effort to end on a positive note, I will begin with the bad news:


Athlete VS Football Player



About 3 to 5 seasons ago (I can’t rightly remember exactly where my view shifted), I would have been elated with this pick; there was a time I was enamored with athleticism and SPARQ. I would chart all the various 40 times, lifts, jumps, and drill times and select the best athletes as my pet cat regardless of what the player showed on tape, level of competition they faced, and mental makeup.


“America is all about speed, hot nasty bad(explicit) speed!”


~ Eleanor Roosevelt ~


Likely as a result of the unrealistic algorithm that drives the video game Madden Football, speed was the most important attribute in my view. But in real life, as many of us have already learned, a player’s overall speed is counter-balanced by instincts and football IQ. Another way to represent this paradox (as I have done repeatedly over the last few weeks):


Speed – Football IQ/Instincts = Running fast in the wrong direction.


Listening to 105.3 The Fan interview LVE last night, I was encouraged to learn he is no stranger to watching film; before he joined the 8-man football league his school offers, he was so eager to get on the field that he started in their film room. He further stated that practice did not change with his graduation into the college ranks and credits his late junior year accelerated ascension to that habit. If that proves to be true on the same level that Sean Lee studies film, then the Cowboys absolutely knocked that pick out of the ball park. But before you get your hopes up, the interviewer did lead the witness into that answer, so time will tell if that proves to be true. It would not be the first time a newly minted draft pick merely said what he believed the fans wanted to hear.


Killer Instinct



For all the athleticism LVE possesses, that athleticism in my view rarely shows up on tape. Mind you, I’m not talking about his side line to side line speed; he has that in spades. What I’m talking about is Killer Instinct.


If you are anything like me, in the days following the draft, you will be reading and watching every evaluation and game tape you can find on the Cowboys selections. If I may, I would like to help direct your studies a tad bit here: If the evaluator in question you are watching or reading at any point describes Leighton Vander Esch as a “Thumper” stop reading and watching immediately. This person either didn’t actually watch the tape or has no idea what he or she is talking about.


I will be diving further into LVE than what I did previous to what the Cowboys drafted him, but in what I have watched so far, he tackles like a calf-roper. I’ve used this analogy a few times, but if you are unfamiliar with that particular Rodeo event, here’s what that looks like:


OBOUwj.gif



Leighton, from what I saw, doesn’t hit; he wraps up and drags down. For some fans, all you may care about is whether or not he was credited with the tackle. If that’s your only concern, you will love Leighton Vander Esch. He was a tackling machine at Idaho and put up unworldly numbers in his one and only season of starting (91 solo, 50 assist, 8.5 tackles for loss, 4 sacks and 2 interceptions). However, my preference are players (such as Rashaan Evans) that hit with bad intentions. To be fair, bad-intention hitters often have the tendency to be overly-aggressive and not wrap up following their hit, which can lead to them launching at empty air, as the ball carrier moves around them. That is a fair criticism of my preference; I’ll accept that.


But I like players that hit and play with that attitude (especially my MLB) because of the galvanizing effect a good solid hit can have on the entire defense. We’ve witnessed what I’m talking about. A better way of probably explaining it would be to call it a Blood-in-the-Water-Hit. It’s that hit that gets the juices of the entire defense going. Of a sudden, you see the other 10 players wanting to get in a good hit on the opposition. And when that happens, the opposition will start to wilt and second guess their own gameplan. Running backs will think twice about running up the middle. Receivers will allow footsteps to affect their focus on bringing the ball in whilst crossing the middle.


On paper, as the aforementioned stats should suggest, LVE looks amazing. But when you sit down and watch those stats being garnered in action (if you are anything like me) you may come away less than impressed.


Injury Concern



There are reports that indicate he may have a lingering spinal/neck issue. Those reports have since been dismissed, LVE stating last night during his interview that he has no idea where those reports came from but last he checked Mayock is not a doctor…whatever that means. My guess is this may be one of those rare cases where there is smoke but no fire. That said, it wouldn’t be the first time when a young player decided it was better to be less than truthful about his health situation then forego lots and lots of money.



RKGollyG


With my concerns now in the rear-view, let’s dive into what likely attracted Dallas to Mr. Esch. If you have watched this kid in interviews and/or read about his lockerroom-presence, one of the things that jumps out at you is his clean-cut well-behaved manner. It’s like someone shook a VHS tape of Leave it to Beaver and LVE fell out.


Clearly this is one of the things Garrett really likes about the kid. As my “Killer Instinct” section indicated, for me this is a bit of a red flag, but to be fair, Demarcus Ware had this same exact vibe. So just because he has that demeanor of a gentle-giant, doesn’t necessarily mean he doesn’t have a special game face for when the whistle blows. Sean Lee clearly has that switch…maybe LVE does too.


Cover Me


In Rashaan Evans VS Leighton Vander Esch, I pointed out that the traits the specifically separates Evans from Esch, is Esch’s noted abilities in coverage. If you are one of those who feels the Cowboys should be more focused on shutting down the oppositions pass in this pass-happy league, then you will be thrilled to know that the Cowboys just might have landed the best coverage linebacker in the whole draft. Having said that, that’s not necessarily saying much because from what I’ve watched of the linebackers that were available this year, that is not something many were asked to do a lot of for their perspective teams. I provide that last disclaimer, because I don’t want to unfairly instill in Cowboys fans a false sense of his abilities.


That said, because of his elite athleticism, he is able to run with most running backs and tight ends in coverage, but I don’t think we would want him following anyone deep; eventually he will get beat. Ideally, the Cowboys will use him more in zone where he can use both his impressive size (6’4”) and fast-for-his-size speed (4.65 forty at 256 lbs is elite) to clog up passing lanes underneath. In this capacity, he could be very valuable to the Cowboys, particularly on 3rd down.


Wrap It Up



As you may have guessed, it’s not like I’m standing on the ledge with this pick; there is a lot to like about Leighton Vander Esch. When you get right down to it, my issue is more about personal preferences as opposed to me knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt he will be a bust. I will say the ingredients you would use to create a bust are definitely there, but until he comes out of the oven after the next 3 years, it’s really hard to say what he will be. With Sean Lee as his mentor, there is good reason to believe he could at the very least turn out to be solid, which I could live with.


Thoughts?
one thing though about heavy hitting and what that does for the team...the newer NFL rules concerning over the top hits on people is marginalizing what you are refering to...there is less of that ..although i do agree it was at one time a phenomena that occured
 

jday

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I'm trying to figure out where you think there is bust potential then. His tackling and coverage ability/instincts are good enough for the NFL already. He doesn't bite on playfakes and by the end of last season his play diagnosis was on point as he was beating OL to the punch routinely.

What is he only potential on?

Watch him. I believe he relies to heavily on his athleticism versus technique. Rather than taking blocks on and maintaining lain integrity, he attempts to run around blockers, and play catch up to the ball carrier. Against the lesser-competition he faced in college and being one of the faster guys on the field, that worked for him. It won't work in the NFL.

That said, that's really not what the OP was about. People think this was me crying over the pick without the benefit of actually reading the OP. If you did read the OP you would see this was an olive branch; an attempt for me to acknowledge that though I wasn't particularly thrilled about the pick, I do recognize his potential.
 

xwalker

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In the wake of a disappointing first round experience for yours truly, I feel it is important now that I clarify my position on Leighton Vander Esch. From day one I recognized the potential (both BOOM & bust)…and therein is the rub. I don’t like drafting “potential” in the first round; my preference is known commodities…potential selections are better suited for the third and later; I want for-sure starters in the first two rounds. At the end of the day, I believe drafting for potential (and potential alone) will always be a suckers bet…even if it should somehow payoff in the long run. And make no mistake, if there is in fact a payoff, it most likely will be a year or two down the round.


Now that LVE is a Cowboy, I will absolutely be rooting for him; even if there will be a continued reluctance on my part to fully buy in to what the Cowboys are now trying to sell to the Cowboys faithful (e.g. Brian Urlacher 2.0 – imagine an eye roll deeper than Mariana’s Trench and you’ll have some conception of how I feel about that unfair comparison).


In an effort to be both objective and unbiased, in the following I will break down what I actually like about LVE and rehash why I wasn’t thrilled. In effort to end on a positive note, I will begin with the bad news:


Athlete VS Football Player



About 3 to 5 seasons ago (I can’t rightly remember exactly where my view shifted), I would have been elated with this pick; there was a time I was enamored with athleticism and SPARQ. I would chart all the various 40 times, lifts, jumps, and drill times and select the best athletes as my pet cat regardless of what the player showed on tape, level of competition they faced, and mental makeup.


“America is all about speed, hot nasty bad(explicit) speed!”


~ Eleanor Roosevelt ~


Likely as a result of the unrealistic algorithm that drives the video game Madden Football, speed was the most important attribute in my view. But in real life, as many of us have already learned, a player’s overall speed is counter-balanced by instincts and football IQ. Another way to represent this paradox (as I have done repeatedly over the last few weeks):


Speed – Football IQ/Instincts = Running fast in the wrong direction.


Listening to 105.3 The Fan interview LVE last night, I was encouraged to learn he is no stranger to watching film; before he joined the 8-man football league his school offers, he was so eager to get on the field that he started in their film room. He further stated that practice did not change with his graduation into the college ranks and credits his late junior year accelerated ascension to that habit. If that proves to be true on the same level that Sean Lee studies film, then the Cowboys absolutely knocked that pick out of the ball park. But before you get your hopes up, the interviewer did lead the witness into that answer, so time will tell if that proves to be true. It would not be the first time a newly minted draft pick merely said what he believed the fans wanted to hear.


Killer Instinct



For all the athleticism LVE possesses, that athleticism in my view rarely shows up on tape. Mind you, I’m not talking about his side line to side line speed; he has that in spades. What I’m talking about is Killer Instinct.


If you are anything like me, in the days following the draft, you will be reading and watching every evaluation and game tape you can find on the Cowboys selections. If I may, I would like to help direct your studies a tad bit here: If the evaluator in question you are watching or reading at any point describes Leighton Vander Esch as a “Thumper” stop reading and watching immediately. This person either didn’t actually watch the tape or has no idea what he or she is talking about.


I will be diving further into LVE than what I did previous to what the Cowboys drafted him, but in what I have watched so far, he tackles like a calf-roper. I’ve used this analogy a few times, but if you are unfamiliar with that particular Rodeo event, here’s what that looks like:


OBOUwj.gif



Leighton, from what I saw, doesn’t hit; he wraps up and drags down. For some fans, all you may care about is whether or not he was credited with the tackle. If that’s your only concern, you will love Leighton Vander Esch. He was a tackling machine at Idaho and put up unworldly numbers in his one and only season of starting (91 solo, 50 assist, 8.5 tackles for loss, 4 sacks and 2 interceptions). However, my preference are players (such as Rashaan Evans) that hit with bad intentions. To be fair, bad-intention hitters often have the tendency to be overly-aggressive and not wrap up following their hit, which can lead to them launching at empty air, as the ball carrier moves around them. That is a fair criticism of my preference; I’ll accept that.


But I like players that hit and play with that attitude (especially my MLB) because of the galvanizing effect a good solid hit can have on the entire defense. We’ve witnessed what I’m talking about. A better way of probably explaining it would be to call it a Blood-in-the-Water-Hit. It’s that hit that gets the juices of the entire defense going. Of a sudden, you see the other 10 players wanting to get in a good hit on the opposition. And when that happens, the opposition will start to wilt and second guess their own gameplan. Running backs will think twice about running up the middle. Receivers will allow footsteps to affect their focus on bringing the ball in whilst crossing the middle.


On paper, as the aforementioned stats should suggest, LVE looks amazing. But when you sit down and watch those stats being garnered in action (if you are anything like me) you may come away less than impressed.


Injury Concern



There are reports that indicate he may have a lingering spinal/neck issue. Those reports have since been dismissed, LVE stating last night during his interview that he has no idea where those reports came from but last he checked Mayock is not a doctor…whatever that means. My guess is this may be one of those rare cases where there is smoke but no fire. That said, it wouldn’t be the first time when a young player decided it was better to be less than truthful about his health situation then forego lots and lots of money.



RKGollyG


With my concerns now in the rear-view, let’s dive into what likely attracted Dallas to Mr. Esch. If you have watched this kid in interviews and/or read about his lockerroom-presence, one of the things that jumps out at you is his clean-cut well-behaved manner. It’s like someone shook a VHS tape of Leave it to Beaver and LVE fell out.


Clearly this is one of the things Garrett really likes about the kid. As my “Killer Instinct” section indicated, for me this is a bit of a red flag, but to be fair, Demarcus Ware had this same exact vibe. So just because he has that demeanor of a gentle-giant, doesn’t necessarily mean he doesn’t have a special game face for when the whistle blows. Sean Lee clearly has that switch…maybe LVE does too.


Cover Me


In Rashaan Evans VS Leighton Vander Esch, I pointed out that the traits the specifically separates Evans from Esch, is Esch’s noted abilities in coverage. If you are one of those who feels the Cowboys should be more focused on shutting down the oppositions pass in this pass-happy league, then you will be thrilled to know that the Cowboys just might have landed the best coverage linebacker in the whole draft. Having said that, that’s not necessarily saying much because from what I’ve watched of the linebackers that were available this year, that is not something many were asked to do a lot of for their perspective teams. I provide that last disclaimer, because I don’t want to unfairly instill in Cowboys fans a false sense of his abilities.


That said, because of his elite athleticism, he is able to run with most running backs and tight ends in coverage, but I don’t think we would want him following anyone deep; eventually he will get beat. Ideally, the Cowboys will use him more in zone where he can use both his impressive size (6’4”) and fast-for-his-size speed (4.65 forty at 256 lbs is elite) to clog up passing lanes underneath. In this capacity, he could be very valuable to the Cowboys, particularly on 3rd down.


Wrap It Up



As you may have guessed, it’s not like I’m standing on the ledge with this pick; there is a lot to like about Leighton Vander Esch. When you get right down to it, my issue is more about personal preferences as opposed to me knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt he will be a bust. I will say the ingredients you would use to create a bust are definitely there, but until he comes out of the oven after the next 3 years, it’s really hard to say what he will be. With Sean Lee as his mentor, there is good reason to believe he could at the very least turn out to be solid, which I could live with.


Thoughts?

Listen to interviews of Vander Esch, Evans and Tremaine Edmunds. Which one do you think has a mental makeup most similar to Sean Lee in terms of ability to learn complex NFL schemes?

If Vander Esch had started as many games as Edmunds, I think Vander Esch would have been drafted first.

Evans is very light at 232 and he has been in the Pro Like weight program at Alabama. The 232 would be OK if he was really fast but he refused to run the forty at either the combine or Pro Day. Fast players are generally eager to run the forty.
 

jday

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I like the op's posts but would question If he thinks will mcclay just blew it on this guy. Sounds like he's very coachable. If that's the case he should be fine. I think it was a great pick.
I trust Will McClay...but that doesn't necessarily mean I think he's above making the wrong pick.

As the title suggest, this is a boom or bust pick. I feel Jerry even acknowledged that in his phone conversation with LVE when they were picking him...he said something to the effect that we like your "potential." LVE absolutely has potential and his ceiling is sky high because of his athleticism. But I also believe his floor is direct proportionate to that ceiling...his floor is Bobby Carpenter. In my opinoin, that is way too much of risk to use a first round pick on.
 

jday

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Listen to interviews of Vander Esch, Evans and Tremaine Edmunds. Which one do you think has a mental makeup most similar to Sean Lee in terms of ability to learn complex NFL schemes?

If Vander Esch had started as many games as Edmunds, I think Vander Esch would have been drafted first.

Evans is very light at 232 and he has been in the Pro Like weight program at Alabama. The 232 would be OK if he was really fast but he refused to run the forty at either the combine or Pro Day. Fast players are generally eager to run the forty.
Yeah, Evans definitely had his own collection of red flags. I'm not ignoring those. But for me the question is what do you allow to have the louded voice: Combine performance or what you see on the TV screen?

For me, I obey my eyes and Evans played with a nastiness I like and really good recognition. The truth is I'm not one of those who would like to see the Cowboys fail just so I can be right. That's not my bag at all. I really hope I'm wrong and I fully recognize his potential, which I thought I made clear in the OP. So either people didn't take time to read and only made assumptions about the content or I failed in my effort.

Either way, Se la vie! :thumbup:
 

Corso

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Watch him. I believe he relies to heavily on his athleticism versus technique. Rather than taking blocks on and maintaining lain integrity, he attempts to run around blockers, and play catch up to the ball carrier. Against the lesser-competition he faced in college and being one of the faster guys on the field, that worked for him. It won't work in the NFL.

That said, that's really not what the OP was about. People think this was me crying over the pick without the benefit of actually reading the OP. If you did read the OP you would see this was an olive branch; an attempt for me to acknowledge that though I wasn't particularly thrilled about the pick, I do recognize his potential.
You know what I saw that I liked? His recognition, while in action, and ability to adjust on the fly. I get what you're saying though.
I think this kid is going to have a monster 2nd year. Barring anything catastrophic.
 

jday

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You know what I saw that I liked? His recognition, while in action, and ability to adjust on the fly. I get what you're saying though.
I think this kid is going to have a monster 2nd year. Barring anything catastrophic.
Corso - I think you know me well enough to know that I really hope you are right. I don't mind being wrong at all...especially when it pertains to my Cowboys.
 

xwalker

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Yeah, Evans definitely had his own collection of red flags. I'm not ignoring those. But for me the question is what do you allow to have the louded voice: Combine performance or what you see on the TV screen?

For me, I obey my eyes and Evans played with a nastiness I like and really good recognition. The truth is I'm not one of those who would like to see the Cowboys fail just so I can be right. That's not my bag at all. I really hope I'm wrong and I fully recognize his potential, which I thought I made clear in the OP. So either people didn't take time to read and only made assumptions about the content or I failed in my effort.

Either way, Se la vie! :thumbup:

How did you rate Evans in coverage?
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Watch him. I believe he relies to heavily on his athleticism versus technique. Rather take blocks on and maintain lain integrity, he attempts to run around blockers, and play catch up to the ball carrier. Against the lesser-competition he faced in college and being one of the faster guys on the field, that worked for him. It won't work in the NFL.

That said, that's really not what the OP was about. People think this was me crying over the pick without the benefit of actually reading the OP. If you did read the OP you would see this was an olive branch; an attempt for me to acknowledge that though I wasn't particularly thrilled about the pick, I do recognize his potential.

I'm not dogging you, bro. I just have a different opinion on specifics and am discussing them. I get that you are not mindlessly pessimistic and instead thoughtful. It's obvious.

I have watched him. 6 games. And I just got done responding to this notion of his "running around blocks" in the post you said was perplexing. I was right to think taking on blocks was the concern.

I agree that when he is slow to diagnose and allows the OL to release to the second level he needs to utilize technique that he did not display in the stack and shed. I'm just saying that you need to realize that he was working on other things first specifically play diagnosis and playing off OL shoulders.

If you put on the Virginia tape he looks awful. He is slow to diagnose and gets eaten up by second level blocks. My point is he learns quickly by week 14, about 2 months later, his diagnosis is instantaneous and OL are engaged at the line. He plays off the block like a champ. He doesn't stack because he doesn't need to.

I've watched Hitchens, Lee, Smith, and Wilson stack. Hitchens I know for a fact could not do that in college like most prospects. I really see no issue with LVE learning to do the same and it should be better.

There is going to be a learning curve but he has 34" arms ie longer than most NFL interior linemen. Hitchens and Lee have short arms and if they didn't get really good pop they get hooked and taken for rides. LVE should be able to keep OG from latching onto his pads at the arm pit as they all try to do with said length.
 
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