An Honest Question About Dak

[Philmonroe]

3 years is still pretty young for the QB position. Actually, there are a lot of QB’s historically who continue to improve their game past 3 years in the league.

They might have statistical improvement but the actual skill set growth I think is done in the first few years. I feel this way in most things not just for Dak. You reach a peak and maintain thenngo down usually not just keep going up and up. Since Dak throwing wise has been the same since Miss St I don't think he has much room to grow skills wise. Maybe a better OC and scheme can help with the stats though. At best he gets one more year of being young and I hope people stop saying it after next year.

 

[Birch_Wood]

Honest answer: its just a shame folks can't debate this thing without all of the labels and profiling. What's the fastest way to shut down a healthy debate, label the poster or posters. When you can debate while controlling your emotions, when you can debate without the labels, when we realize that no matter how passionate we are about player, we could still be wrong, then you can objectively debate an issue.

 

[Ken]

There’s something about Dak that some fans don’t like.

His numbers and W/L record prove his worth. Men lie, women lie, numbers don’t lie. He was a top-10 QB after the Cooper trade, period.

So it’s something else. Something he’ll never be able to change.

We have our franchise QB; we also have many VERY stupid fans.

Luckily, those of us on the Dak Train has the backing of the entire front office of the Dallas Cowboys.

So those not on said train are seeing things that aren't there.

I like being right.

 

[aikemirv]

There’s something about Dak that some fans don’t like.

His numbers and W/L record prove his worth. Men lie, women lie, numbers don’t lie. He was a top-10 QB after the Cooper trade, period.

So it’s something else. Something he’ll never be able to change.

We have our franchise QB; we also have many VERY stupid fans.

I won't, but I could make a short video of probably 3-4 plays that are a short description of why I don't like Dak as our QB.

And these plays happen almost every week. But everybody just says look at the stats....

7 points from the offense in the first half is a continuation of what we have seen all year. This time though, our defense was not good enough to make that 7 keep us in the game.

 

[Pass2Run]

I would like to ask the forum why we as an NFL treat Dak so different from any other young QB. The easy answer is he’s the Cowboys QB, but let’s dive in a little more.

Dak just finished up year 3. His biggest criticisms are:

-Inconsistent with decision making and accuracy.
-Issues with pocket awareness.
-“Game Manager”

Here are his first 3 years:

Dak Prescott- 975 completions on 1,475 attempts for a 66% completion percentage and about 3,625 passing yards a season. He’s averaged 23 TD passes and 8 interceptions. His YPA for his career is 7.4

Let’s look at 3 other quarterbacks in their first 3 years

Russell Wilson - 794 completions on 1,252 attempts for a 63.33 completion percentage for about 3,316 passing yards a season. Over those years he averaged 24 TD passes and about 8 interceptions. His YPA in those 3 years was 7.8

Big Ben - 644 completions on 1,032 attempts for a 62 % completion percentage and about 2,840 yards passing a season. He averaged about 17 TD passes and 14 interceptions. His YPA those years was 8.4

Tom Brady - 954 completions on 1,541 attempts for a 62% completion rate and about 3,409 yards passing a season. He averaged about 23 TD passes and 13 interceptions. His YPA was 6.7

Dak arguably has performed the best statistically of all these teams with worse coaching and worse players (remember these are all Super Bowl teams within those first 3 years of those guys careers).

I hear so much talk on this forum about how much better Romo was and they back it up with stats and highlights from when Romo already had years of experience and reps.

Dak is only in year 3. While the other QB’s mentioned above were given some of the same criticisms, they also were given time to grow.

-R. Wilson was a game manager who routinely sailed fastballs over WR’s heads.
-It took Tom Brady 5 years to shake off his rep as a game manager with an all time great HC.
-Big Ben barely got to throw the ball this first few years.

Why do most other QB’s get a chance to improve while Dak is supposed to be at peak potential right away?

Is it because Dak’s lows are aesthetically unpleasant while his highs don’t look that sexy either? Is it the color of his skin? Is it the 2016 season that spoiled us all?

Dak has obviously made strides in improvement this season once he got a semblance of a WR/TE group.
Why do most fans shut the door on any more improvement from him? Why do we give Jared Goff a pass for bad QB coaching but Dak doesn’t? Help me understand why we as a fanbase refuse to give Dak the same leash as everyone else. All these QB’s were limited in their first few years, let’s let the growth process complete before we make a definitive judgment.

This doesn't really seem like a question, though.

 

[Philmonroe]

There’s something about Dak that some fans don’t like.

His numbers and W/L record prove his worth. Men lie, women lie, numbers don’t lie. He was a top-10 QB after the Cooper trade, period.

So it’s something else. Something he’ll never be able to change.

We have our franchise QB; we also have many VERY stupid fans.

The lazy take crew at it again. Online always allows lazy behind takes that could easily not be used irl to be played online smh. We can have a room full of never be able to changes that won't like dude and it'll be more lazy rhetoric from some.

 

[ClintDagger]

Just this past week i seen Jimmy Johnson, Terry Bradshaw, rod Woodson and Eric Dickerson praise him. Even after the loss

So? Nobody said he’s not a capable guy. He’s a legitimate NFL starter. The question is, is he a legitimate franchise guy on the level of the top 10 or so QBs in the league. And if he’s not (and clearly he isn’t right now), what are the odds he gets there. Most talent evaluators would say Dak has a high floor but a low ceiling. You might not like that, and you don’t have to accept that Dak can’t get better. But he is what he is right now. Arm talent, pocket awareness, read anticipation. None of those are anywhere near elite and those are what the top QBs in the league have in spades. Probably the only one that can really improve is read anticipation. But he needs someone that Dallas clearly doesn’t have on staff now to help with that. And even then, maybe he never gets it

Maybe you just look at this emotionally and not rationally. But it’s not hard to do research and see what the top talent evaluators say about Dak if you really want to know. Even with his production improving and Dallas finishing strong all the same issues that Dak exhibited even in college are still present. There’s just been a better job (mostly thanks to Cooper) of Dallas putting Dak in situations where he can succeed at a greater clip. But that can only take you so far unless you have an ultra elite supporting cast which he doesn’t have. My hope is that we get Dak a coach or coaches that can help with pre-snap reads and more importantly with read anticipation. Teach him to make decisions and get the ball out quickly to the right spot. Even as great as Luck was, he had to learn that during his absence because he was taking unnecessary shots and it made him even better. A guy like Dak that lacks in critical areas could really use that skill.

 

[DandyDon1722]

You answered your own question.

There's no need to dive into the numbers or the way he's covered in the press or fan reaction. He is the quarterback of the most hated team in sports and nothing is rational.

Don Meredith had taken us to two straight NFL Championship games that were heartbreaking. His offenses set NFL records that I believe some still stand today. He was beloved in Dallas, having been an All American at SMU. He was as courageous and graceful as any player in Cowboy history, but to us, that didn't matter. He was driven out of town under relentless criticism with the most ridicules standards. Nope, Don just wasn't good enough.

Roger was Captain American and was really the only Dallas QB immune to any criticism. This is due to the emergence of America's Team in the 70's, his service to the country, the way he conducted himself and Super Bowl wins (along with two he could've won). He was a childhood hero of presidents. He's on the Mount Rushmore of American Athletes.

Danny White to this day never gets the credit he deserves. I'd like to know the list of QB's who have taken a team to three straight NFC Championship games. because It's not very long. But he never got to a SB and for some stupid fans, that's all there is, nothing about a QB's career means anything without winning a Super Bowl in the greatest team sport there is.

Aikman won three Super Bowls and is in the Hall Of Fame, yet once again Dallas turned on their own and from '97 on, he was constantly getting ripped and even booed at home games. As Troy said best about fans booing him at home, "Dallas isn't a Cowboy's town, it's a winner's town."

We all know how Tony was treated. It's only in retirement is he is appreciated. Never mind he's the 4th highest rated QB of all time. This was an undrafted free agent who on the very week he signed his second contract, pulled over on an expressway in Dallas to change the tire of an elderly couple. How many athletes do that, hell, how many of us would do that, being as dangerous as it is. Romo is a perfect example of why you must ignore the noise for Dak, there's nothing that will silence it.

So now Dak is under the gun. Our fanbase is locked into a distant past, thinking we are entitled to Super Bowls and NFC Championship games. I will be the first to say to go 23 years is unacceptable and we all know where that blame falls. It's only going to get worse for Dak until he gets us further. Those very same Dak supporters who still give him the benefit of the doubt will soon turn on him as well. This will be year 4 and with a good team around him he's in the crosshairs.

Bottom line is to try and analyze how or why people treat Dak like they do, remember, it is about performance, it is personal and it is unfair and it's been going on around here for 50 years.

Welcome to the hardest position in all of sports.

 

[tm1119]

Eyeball test. Maybe you need glasses.
Sorry, but I just find it funny when fans use this as a reason either good, bad or indifferent.
As there is a lot more going on during the play.

However, I prefer they give him another year before extending his contract.
They need to extend Zeke first.

Yes, because obviously using cherry picked stats and then comparing them to QB’s that played in a different era is a much better measuring stick

If you can’t watch a QB play and formulate your own opinion you probably shouldn’t be watching football.

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

Nobody really says this.

And the problems always arise when people do stuff like compare him to quarterbacks who are a) far better right now and b) played their first 3 seasons years ago. 4,300 yards in today's NFL is NOTHING.

There are plenty of Dak haters who say exactly this. Just go look at some of the posts by Pappy.

 

[Philmonroe]

There are plenty of Dak haters who say exactly this. Just go look at some of the posts by Pappy.

Pappy is a expletive outlier show all this from non outliers. I wish people would stop doing the online thing and turning a vocal minority into some way bigger numbers than they are. Now yes people have sides but I think for the most part on both sides you have rational people with a few outliers

 

[RamziD]

Nobody really says this.

And the problems always arise when people do stuff like compare him to quarterbacks who are a) far better right now and b) played their first 3 seasons years ago. 4,300 yards in today's NFL is NOTHING.

Only 8 QBs threw for 4300+ yards this season. I guess 24 starting QBs are a buncha NOTHINGS.

 

[Future]

big passing numbers were big every since Warner

No, not to the depth they are now. There weren't poor quarterbacks throwing for 4,500 yards in 2001...only 2 were even over 4,000. The other was Peyton. That year, there were only 5 qbs with a passer rating over 90. This year, there were 12 over 4,000 and 3 who had more yards than Warner. 24 quarterbacks had ratings over 90, 9 were over 100. This is unprecedented. In 2012, there were 11 over 4,000 yards, but only 10 with a rating over 90.

Dak has the arm to be a more explosive QB, but he simply does not see down the field well enough or push the ball often enough to do it right now. Some of that is the system, but in a league where passing is easier than it has ever been, it is silly to compare Dak to QBs who are from the previous era - even if this era is only 2-3 years old.

 

[Future]

Only 8 QBs threw for 4300+ yards this season. I guess 24 starting QBs are a buncha NOTHINGS.

13 paced it. Keep up. But yea, more than half of the quarterbacks in the league are nothings, and some of them are in that group.

There's maybe 15 quarterbacks in this league who are a positive impact on their team, and Dak is one of them, but a prolific passer he has not been.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Mind you, a QB in his 3rd year, is supposed to constantly carry the weight of a coaching staff who can adjust to be outcoached/out scheme in the mist of a game, where the opposing coaching staff has their game plan and play calling figured out. Dak is expected to have the QB position perfected in his 3rd season, meanwhile, we have a coaching staff with a combined 20+ years of NFL experience. And they can't recognize how their play calling or players tendencies are made predictable, from how other coaches study film on our team.

And then have the coaching knowledge to know how to adjust or switch things up, so they won't always be outcoached and out schemed in games. I can understand or agree with some of the issues people criticize Dak on. But, when it comes to the playoffs, the Cowboys are always going to have to overcome superior and great coaches and play calling, if this franchise wants to get back to winning the Superbowl.

And if we have repeats of games where the coaching staff is made to be outcoached/out schemed, due to the other coaching staff having our coaches figured out. Like was the case with the Rams, knowing what our D line was doing, then it's unrealistic to expect Dak or any other Cowboys QB, to overcome a poorly coached game on a consistent basis.

Maybe, a QB can overcome a poorly coached game, in one big game, during a playoff run. But, the majority of time, QBs win Superbowls, because of how their coaching staff was able to properly game plan. QBs who won Superbowl, won them, because of their coaching staff being able to out coached and out scheme. Superbowl winning QBs, have coaching staffs who can make adjustments during the game.

How many times have we heard other players and teams say that our playcalling on both sides is predictable?

 

[Kevinicus]

Dak was 415 yards short of this for the year. If he had a legit #1 WR for those 1st 7 games, je would have been way over that.

The 4300 number literally came from extrapolating his last 9 games over a full season...

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Could you imagine hyping up 1.5 passing tds per game average in this era of passing attacks.

Crazy.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Also can people stop saying he's only in his 3rd season? It's true. But it's also time to decide whether to pay him or not.

The average NFL career is just 3 years.

Such a silly excuse.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

Luckily, those of us on the Dak Train has the backing of the entire front office of the Dallas Cowboys.

So those not on said train are seeing things that aren't there.

I like being right.

So those of us that Support Garrett have the full backing of the FO as well and everyone else are seeing things that aren't there. I too like being right!

 

[Ken]

So those of us that Support Garrett have the full backing of the FO as well and everyone else are seeing things that aren't there. I too like being right!

Agreed! There are no better options than Garrett at this time. If we don't improve next year, it is bye bye clappy.