Tom Brady hasn't been that great in the playoffs

[Kevinicus]

Yeah yeah, everyone likes to say he's the GOAT, but that's mostly due to team accomplishments (though his career regular season numbers are shaping up very well in that regard now as well).

However, in the playoffs, he's had quite a few stinkers. He's been fortunate that in many of those, the team was still good enough to win. It's yet more evidence to add to the already huge mountain of evidence the clearly demonstrates that football is very much a team sport, and teams should be judged by wins and losses, not players.

Brady has 38 playoff games in his tenure. For seventeen (45%), including 5 of 6 in the first two super bowl winning years, of those game, he had a passer rating below 90. The Patriots were 10-7 in those games with W's coming with Brady passer ratings of: 70.4, 84.3, 86.2, 73.3, 76.1, 57.6, 66.4, 57.5, 78.4, and 68.6).

In 9 of the games (24%) he has had multiple interceptions. Three years in a row - not counting his injured 2008 - he threw 3 interceptions in a playoff game (The Patriots managed to win 2 of these to advance to Conference Championship games - and 1 Superbowl). He's had bad games in pretty much every playoff run except for 2004, 2014, and 2017 - this year TBD.

His overall Passer rating is an unremarkable 91.4, with an equally unremarkable 7.01 YPA.

The Patriots are 3-4 on the road, with Brady only twice having a rating over 84 in those 7 games.

 

[Ranched]

He hasn't been that great in Super Bowls either.

HE'S NOT GOING THIS YEAR! ​

 

[Pape]

the Pats went 3-5 on the road this year.

As for Brady.... who would you rather have?

 

[DFWJC]

Road playoff games are not easy.
I doubt that any NFL QBs (with decent sample size) have a road playoff QB rating as high as their overall career rating.
Probably not even very close.

 

[Kevinicus]

the Pats went 3-5 on the road this year.

As for Brady.... who would you rather have?

Depends. When are we talking? That's a lot of years.

Is everything else equal? Same Patriots teams and coaches?

 

[Kevinicus]

Road playoff games are not easy.
I doubt that any NFL QBs (with decent sample size) have a road playoff QB rating as high as their overall career rating.
Probably not even very close.

That's true. I think the road reflects more on the overall impact it has on the team, as Brady had plenty of stinkers at home too.

 

[Mountaineerfan]

Open your mouths and remove all doubt.

 

[DFWJC]

That's true. I think the road reflects more on the overall impact it has on the team, as Brady had plenty of stinkers at home too.

I hear you Kevin.

Still, given the huge sample size and time span...a 91.4 career Playoff QB rating IS very good.
A 90 rating in 2006 would be about the same as a 100 rating now, for example. You need to add at least 10 for decade back and another 5-10 for 20 years back.
It's all relative.

For example, Roger Staubach's career playoff rating is only 76.
Aikman's was 88, but in different era.

But again, yes, Brady has had some really bad games where they won anyway. Must be nice.

Someone that was amazing is Joe Montana. Even way back when, his career Playoff rating was 95. That's like having a rating of 110 now, most likely.

 

[Pape]

Depends. When are we talking? That's a lot of years.

Is everything else equal? Same Patriots teams and coaches?

Is everything equal? You want to drop another qb into the Patriots line up and say here??? sorry life doesn't work like that... this isnt Madden... Pick a qb you'd rather have... Career wise.

every player has good weeks and bad weeks ... so, no you don't get to cherry pick years... pick a player who you'd rather have...

me? I'll stick with Brady. But then I am 100% biased.

 

[Kevinicus]

Is everything equal? You want to drop another qb into the Patriots line up and say here??? sorry life doesn't work like that... this isnt Madden... Pick a qb you'd rather have... Career wise.

every player has good weeks and bad weeks ... so, no you don't get to cherry pick years... pick a player who you'd rather have...

me? I'll stick with Brady. But then I am 100% biased.

Peyton Manning to me is on a completely different level than any QB I've seen in my lifetime (Mahomes looks like he may have this potential as well - though in a different way).

I thought your question was more focused than just a broad generalization of careers. And I think the "all else equal" is an important distinction because team plays a huge role in how many view individual players. For example, would I take Brady and all the Patriots teams and coaches he's had during his career, or Manning and the same for his Colts/Broncos teams? In that case, Brady, but that's more due to the teams. If the question was, Brady or Manning, on all the Patriots teams with the Patriots coaches that Brady had (or both but using the Colts/Broncos), then I would easily take Manning in that situation.

 

[Kevinicus]

I hear you Kevin.

Still, given the huge sample size and time span...a 91.4 career Playoff QB rating IS very good.
A 90 rating in 2006 would be about the same as a 100 rating now, for example. You need to add at least 10 for decade back and another 5-10 for 20 years back.
It's all relative.

For example, Roger Staubach's career playoff rating is only 76.
Aikman's was 88, but in different era.

But again, yes, Brady has had some really bad games where they won anyway. Must be nice.

Someone that was amazing is Joe Montana. Even way back when, his career Playoff rating was 95. That's like having a rating of 110 now, most likely.

His more recent years have really helped a lot.
The previous two years, and last weeks game raised his rating about 4.5 points (86.96 before that). Three of the 4 years before that were below 88 (2 below 85).

 

[Pape]

Peyton Manning to me is on a completely different level than any QB I've seen in my lifetime (Mahomes looks like he may have this potential as well - though in a different way).

I thought your question was more focused than just a broad generalization of careers. And I think the "all else equal" is an important distinction because team plays a huge role in how many view individual players. For example, would I take Brady and all the Patriots teams and coaches he's had during his career, or Manning and the same for his Colts/Broncos teams? In that case, Brady, but that's more due to the teams. If the question was, Brady or Manning, on all the Patriots teams with the Patriots coaches that Brady had (or both but using the Colts/Broncos), then I would easily take Manning in that situation.

fair enough...

If Manning were on the Patriots, would he have taken less to keep a solid team around him? He never did in Indy... and if he didn't, would they have had that type of success? Manning has some dreadful numbers especially in the playoffs

... could he have put up the same numbers without being surrounded by talent? Harrison, Wayne, etc? could he have done the same things with less, like Brady has over the years?

 

[JD_KaPow]

Yeah yeah, everyone likes to say he's the GOAT, but that's mostly due to team accomplishments (though his career regular season numbers are shaping up very well in that regard now as well).

However, in the playoffs, he's had quite a few stinkers. He's been fortunate that in many of those, the team was still good enough to win. It's yet more evidence to add to the already huge mountain of evidence the clearly demonstrates that football is very much a team sport, and teams should be judged by wins and losses, not players.

Brady has 38 playoff games in his tenure. For seventeen (45%), including 5 of 6 in the first two super bowl winning years, of those game, he had a passer rating below 90. The Patriots were 10-7 in those games with W's coming with Brady passer ratings of: 70.4, 84.3, 86.2, 73.3, 76.1, 57.6, 66.4, 57.5, 78.4, and 68.6).

In 9 of the games (24%) he has had multiple interceptions. Three years in a row - not counting his injured 2008 - he threw 3 interceptions in a playoff game (The Patriots managed to win 2 of these to advance to Conference Championship games - and 1 Superbowl). He's had bad games in pretty much every playoff run except for 2004, 2014, and 2017 - this year TBD.

His overall Passer rating is an unremarkable 91.4, with an equally unremarkable 7.01 YPA.

The Patriots are 3-4 on the road, with Brady only twice having a rating over 84 in those 7 games.

Brady has a 97.6 rating and 7.5 Y/A over his career in the regular season and a 91.4 rating and 7.0 Y/A in the postseason. When you remember that he usually has one of the easiest regular-season schedules, thanks to playing the dumpster fires that are the other AFCE teams twice each year, looks to me like he's basically the same guy.

 

[Kevinicus]

fair enough...

If Manning were on the Patriots, would he have taken less to keep a solid team around him? He never did in Indy... and if he didn't, would they have had that type of success? Manning has some dreadful numbers especially in the playoffs

... could he have put up the same numbers without being surrounded by talent? Harrison, Wayne, etc? could he have done the same things with less, like Brady has over the years?

I think it's pretty difficult to say Brady has had to do things with less over the years. He's had a ton of guys, Moss, Welker, Edelman, Gronk, Cooks, and other very solid supporting players like Amendola, Branch, etc.

The money question is separate from their ability as a player.

You're right, Manning has had some pretty awful playoff performances as well. The point of this thread isn't really to down on Brady. The bigger point I am trying to make, which is one that so many here and in the sports world just don't seem to get, is that it's a team game. Manning's playoff performances illustrate this as well. I wouldn't say Peyton had a single "good" game in either of the two Superbowl runs his teams went on. In both instances, the defenses were the strongest points during those runs.

 

[Bigdog]

The most important stat is W and that he has plenty of in the playoffs.

 

[Pape]

I think it's pretty difficult to say Brady has had to do things with less over the years. He's had a ton of guys, Moss, Welker, Edelman, Gronk, Cooks, and other very solid supporting players like Amendola, Branch, etc.

The money question is separate from their ability as a player.

You're right, Manning has had some pretty awful playoff performances as well. The point of this thread isn't really to down on Brady. The bigger point I am trying to make, which is one that so many here and in the sports world just don't seem to get, is that it's a team game. Manning's playoff performances illustrate this as well. I wouldn't say Peyton had a single "good" game in either of the two Superbowl runs his teams went on. In both instances, the defenses were the strongest points during those runs.

of course its a team game, but right or wrong, wins or losses are attributed to the quarterbacks...and at 207-60 is where Brady stands

and all those guys you listed? welker, moss, gronk, etc? all came after 2007... before that we were rocking with troy brown, david patten, david givens, reche caldwell, deion branch, bethel johnson etc... a real roster of jags ...

 

[Tabascocat]

He is still the GOAT IMO. He is not the best ever passer or most talented but you can't argue his hardware and drive to win.

 

[Kevinicus]

of course its a team game, but right or wrong, wins or losses are attributed to the quarterbacks...and at 207-60 is where Brady stands

and all those guys you listed? welker, moss, gronk, etc? all came after 2007... before that we were rocking with troy brown, david patten, david givens, reche caldwell, deion branch, bethel johnson etc... a real roster of jags ...

Well, it's clearly wrongly that some (I refuse yo give in to the idiocy) attribute wins that way.

And what was Brady's output prior to 2007 (not that all of those guys were chopped liver)?

 

[cowboyec]

huh???
how the hell did he win 5 Super Bowls if he hasn't been great in the play-offs???
he is CLEARLY the greatest....although I will always consider Roger the greatest.
Brady has accomplished more with less than anyone I can remember.
I think he'll be just fine.

 

[Pape]

2001 thru 2006, top 10... 2007, with welker and moss he exploded... 2008, out due to knee injury... after 2009 to present, near the top of the leader boards until this year.