Salary Cap fact versus fiction

[KingintheNorth]

Good teams do VERY little of the latter.

The Patriots signing the #1 CB on the marketing in 2017 for top dollar has ended that fallacy years ago. The Rams went all in last year.

We also need to stop with the idea of "off-season champs" or "winning free agency" ..this whole all-or-nothing approach. There's a canyon-sized gap of in-between. You can get significantly better with one to two major acquisitions, as the Patriots showed in 2017.

 

[Nightman]

nit picking, but i thougt paea played good not mcfaddens fault we sucked on O was Kellen Moore drafted? Flemming isnt bad, resigned with us. . the rest of your post is ok.

1. Paea was a huge injury risk and another Band-Aid at best
2. KMoore was a trade I believe but the idea of a bargain basement fix applies
3. Flemming was really bad last year..... IDK what people were watching
4. McFadden was another terrible signing because he was part of the terrible idea of replacing a superstar in DMurray with 4 JAGs...... McFadden's ceiling was our floor

 

[jterrell]

The problem with the overreliance on building through the draft is that even if you buy into the notion that you will hit on most of your picks, that by the time your talent has developed you will naturally have new holes. Fix the offensive line and by the time they're all solid contributors, your secondary is a liability. Fix the secondary, and now some of your offensive linemen have priced or aged themselves out of the plan. It's plugging dam holes with your fingers.

It's also arrogant and ignorant to assume you are that much better at drafting than your playoff competitors. Even with recent success, you can't just expect to make bigger strides than your competitors. It's simply not realistic. Take this year for example. We lost to the Rams so it's a logical statement to say the Rams are slightly ahead of us. The Patriots won the Super Bowl so that should be the bullseye we are aiming for. However, both of those teams have more draft capital than us in the upcoming draft (Rams barely, Patriots significant).


The Cowboys also seem to think they will simply improve on their own. Jerry recently said the team can expect to advance by individual players improving. He acts as if they exist in a vacuum, that only his team will get better via the draft and that only his players will get better through individual improvement.

Free agency isn't "bad" and avoiding it because you are bad at it is like punting on 4th and 1 in critical games. You're playing scared and you're not giving yourself a chance to make it.

Draft capital is only worth what you put into it.
If you draft and develop guys instead of signing veteran free agents to play those same positions they have a much better chance of success.
Avoiding an over-reliance on FA also leads to supplemental draft picks which again provide you the most valuable capital of call, cheap talent.

Dallas isn't avoiding FA. They are being very picky in it.

DAL has signed 3 UFA:
Re-signed Cam Fleming
Signed Chris Covington
Re-signed Olawale

lost 2:
Cole Beasley
Damien Wilson

LAR:
lost 2 FA:
Roger Saffold
Lamarcus Joyner
signed 1:
Eric Weddle

NE:
lost 6 FA --SIX!!!
Flowers
T. Brown
Cord Patterson
Dwayne Allen
Eric Rowe
Mal Brown

signed 4:
Ellington
LaCrosse
Boldin
RE-signed Mccourty.

So my man, those 2 teams in fact have done less net in FA than Dallas.

 

[Nightman]

The Patriots signing the #1 CB on the marketing in 2017 for top dollar has ended that fallacy years ago. The Rams went all in last year.

We also need to stop with the idea of "off-season champs" or "winning free agency" ..this whole all-or-nothing approach. There's a canyon-sized gap of in-between. You can get significantly better with one to two major acquisitions, as the Patriots showed in 2017.

Don't forget Aqib Talib and DRevis before Gilmore and plenty of DL and WRs

 

[jterrell]

The Patriots signing the #1 CB on the marketing in 2017 for top dollar has ended that fallacy years ago. The Rams went all in last year.

We also need to stop with the idea of "off-season champs" or "winning free agency" ..this whole all-or-nothing approach. There's a canyon-sized gap of in-between. You can get significantly better with one to two major acquisitions, as the Patriots showed in 2017.

This is the kind of drivel that kills brains cells.
The Pats made one large signing in basically a decade and have won titles many tiles proving the EXACT opposite.

This is really to the point of lying it is so woefully dishonest.

 

[Rockport]

No one said to break the bank but you have to do something. Again if this team flops this year like they do every time they have any success then maybe its time to change the way your doing things.

Why exactly do you have to overpay in the first couple of days of FA?

 

[Rockport]

This is fair tbh but I do have an English BA degree and was referring largely to the "which has become accepted in common usage" part of the definition. Like saying "There is no such thing as cap hell" to me does rate very similarly to saying "It is raining cats and dogs".

On reflection though DOGMA would be a far better word choice. And had I ever actually used that BA for anything I'd probably be more accurate.
These are blanket statements accepted as true and in reality are dubious at best.

Point being, in salary cap parlance we have created these sayings which are largely unchallenged, often do not mean exactly what it stated and are accepted as fact.
Because of that, cap management is "self-taught" on boards and apps in a very poor way.

Also you need to dumb it down for some of these posters. They have no clue what you’re talking about..

 

[CWR]

and Thornton, Paea, Mayowa, Olewale, Butler, Flemming, McFadden, DThompson, BeneB, KMoore, Weeden

Im not upset about Flemming yet, but we will see lol

 

[slick325]

The problem with the overreliance on building through the draft is that even if you buy into the notion that you will hit on most of your picks, that by the time your talent has developed you will naturally have new holes. Fix the offensive line and by the time they're all solid contributors, your secondary is a liability. Fix the secondary, and now some of your offensive linemen have priced or aged themselves out of the plan. It's plugging dam holes with your fingers.

It's also arrogant and ignorant to assume you are that much better at drafting than your playoff competitors. Even with recent success, you can't just expect to make bigger strides than your competitors. It's simply not realistic. Take this year for example. We lost to the Rams so it's a logical statement to say the Rams are slightly ahead of us. The Patriots won the Super Bowl so that should be the bullseye we are aiming for. However, both of those teams have more draft capital than us in the upcoming draft (Rams barely, Patriots significant).


The Cowboys also seem to think they will simply improve on their own. Jerry recently said the team can expect to advance by individual players improving. He acts as if they exist in a vacuum, that only his team will get better via the draft and that only his players will get better through individual improvement.

Free agency isn't "bad" and avoiding it because you are bad at it is like punting on 4th and 1 in critical games. You're playing scared and you're not giving yourself a chance to make it.

"The King in the North!"

 

[Killerinstinct]

I think we are about 2 years away from "going for it"

Over the next 2 years we need to sign Dlaw, Dak, Cooper, Jones, Jaylon, Mo Collins, Zeke and I am sure I am forgetting others. Once we have that core, or as much of it as possible locked up on long term deals then there will be a better idea of how much room there is to add those 1 or 2 pieces from the outside to put them "over the top".

Then we could see some restructuring of contracts to create big space to add those pieces.

It could happen next year if we get enough of the core locked up.

 

[Sydla]

Basically..... all you needed to say was the Cowboys are killing it!

 

[KingintheNorth]

Draft capital is only worth what you put into it.
If you draft and develop guys instead of signing veteran free agents to play those same positions they have a much better chance of success.
Avoiding an over-reliance on FA also leads to supplemental draft picks which again provide you the most valuable capital of call, cheap talent.

Dallas isn't avoiding FA. They are being very picky in it.

DAL has signed 3 UFA:
Re-signed Cam Fleming
Signed Chris Covington
Re-signed Olawale

lost 2:
Cole Beasley
Damien Wilson

LAR:
lost 2 FA:
Roger Saffold
Lamarcus Joyner
signed 1:
Eric Weddle

NE:
lost 6 FA --SIX!!!
Flowers
T. Brown
Cord Patterson
Dwayne Allen
Eric Rowe
Mal Brown

signed 4:
Ellington
LaCrosse
Boldin
RE-signed Mccourty.

So my man, those 2 teams in fact have done less net in FA than Dallas.

I don't know if you're intentionally leaving players out or not, but some of your math is wrong.

Cowboys lost Swaim too and even though I think he's a Jag, he was a starter.

The Patriots cut Allen and they also re-signed Simon. They also signed Terrance Brooks and Maurice Harris. These aren't big names (neither is Christian Covington and Cameron Fleming) but if your argument is a simple plus/minus, you'd still be wrong.

And the Cowboys are definitely avoiding free agents by lowballing them. They aren't being clever, they are being stubborn, expecting players to play for Dallas at a discounted rate.

At the end of the day, this is what I determine is a successful off-season or not for the Cowboys. If our expectation is that the Cowboys compete with the Rams, Saints, Eagles, and some other NFC contenders, have they improved on last year's team? Did we catch those teams shorten the gap as far as talent (players and coaching) ? Every single team will attempt to get better through the draft. Are we addressing weaknesses that caused us to come up short last year? Will Christian Covington and the 58th pick be enough to catch the Rams? hold off the Eagles? beat the Saints on the road in January?

I just want us to get better. Our off-season strategy seems to be once again hoping everyone else gets worse.

 

[KingintheNorth]

This is the kind of drivel that kills brains cells.
The Pats made one large signing in basically a decade and have won titles many tiles proving the EXACT opposite.

This is really to the point of lying it is so woefully dishonest.

Don't forget Aqib Talib and DRevis before Gilmore and plenty of DL and WRs

You were saying?

 

[KingintheNorth]

Basically..... all you needed to say was the Cowboys are killing it!

Yet again, another apologist pointing out how everything we do is magic.

Who needs Super Bowl appearances?

 

[Rockport]

I don't know if you're intentionally leaving players out or not, but some of your math is wrong.

Cowboys lost Swaim too and even though I think he's a Jag, he was a starter.

The Patriots cut Allen and they also re-signed Simon. They also signed Terrance Brooks and Maurice Harris. These aren't big names (neither is Christian Covington and Cameron Fleming) but if your argument is a simple plus/minus, you'd still be wrong.

And the Cowboys are definitely avoiding free agents by lowballing them. They aren't being clever, they are bing stubborn, expecting players to play for Dallas at a discounted rate.

At the end of the day, this is what I determine is a successful off-season or not for the Cowboys. If our expectation is that the Cowboys compete with the Rams, Saints, Eagles, and some other NFC contenders, have they improved on last year's team? Did we catch those teams shorten the gap as far as talent (players and coaching) ? Every single team will attempt to get better through the draft. Are we addressing weaknesses that caused us to come up short last year? Will Christian Covington and the 58th pick be enough to catch the Rams? hold off the Eagles? beat the Saints on the road in January?

I just want us to get better. Our off-season strategy seems to be once again hoping everyone else gets worse.

Stubborn or wise?

 

[KingintheNorth]

Stubborn or wise?

That's fair and time will be the ultimate judge, but seeing how we have not been able to lure any significant free agents to sign for less than market value and the free agents we have signed (Carroll, Thornton, Paea, Mayowa, etc) have been mostly bad, it appears stubborn is the leader in the clubhouse.

 

[jterrell]

Shorter: Bills come due eventually.

My pet peeve is people saying that keeping a player on the roster instead of cutting them "saves cap" because dead money doesn't come due that way, instead of *adding this year's salary * to the player's cumulative cap hit.

Dead money is dead. It is not resurrected by pushing it off to future years *and* adding another year's salary to the damage.

You are right and I should have added that.

You lose a spot, usually a starting slot and you have to pay to replace that spot.
You almost always get worse at the spot and see it eat large cap dollars.

Pitt is eating over 10% of their cap for Antonio Brown.
That's a double hit.
Lose a top 3 WR and lose 10% of the cap at the same time.

 

[jterrell]

I don't know if you're intentionally leaving players out or not, but some of your math is wrong.

Cowboys lost Swaim too and even though I think he's a Jag, he was a starter.

The Patriots cut Allen and they also re-signed Simon. They also signed Terrance Brooks and Maurice Harris. These aren't big names (neither is Christian Covington and Cameron Fleming) but if your argument is a simple plus/minus, you'd still be wrong.

And the Cowboys are definitely avoiding free agents by lowballing them. They aren't being clever, they are being stubborn, expecting players to play for Dallas at a discounted rate.

At the end of the day, this is what I determine is a successful off-season or not for the Cowboys. If our expectation is that the Cowboys compete with the Rams, Saints, Eagles, and some other NFC contenders, have they improved on last year's team? Did we catch those teams shorten the gap as far as talent (players and coaching) ? Every single team will attempt to get better through the draft. Are we addressing weaknesses that caused us to come up short last year? Will Christian Covington and the 58th pick be enough to catch the Rams? hold off the Eagles? beat the Saints on the road in January?

I just want us to get better. Our off-season strategy seems to be once again hoping everyone else gets worse.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/dallas-cowboys/

 

[KingintheNorth]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/dallas-cowboys/

So with Tavon Austin we are +1 on retaining talent via free agency. That's not counting losing Terrence Williams and David Irving (complete non-factors in 2018).

So is it your argument that we have gained on the Rams? A net gain of Christian Covington and our 2nd round pick versus a net loss of Roger Saffold plus the Rams 1st round pick?

 

[jterrell]

I don't know if you're intentionally leaving players out or not, but some of your math is wrong.

Cowboys lost Swaim too and even though I think he's a Jag, he was a starter.

The Patriots cut Allen and they also re-signed Simon. They also signed Terrance Brooks and Maurice Harris. These aren't big names (neither is Christian Covington and Cameron Fleming) but if your argument is a simple plus/minus, you'd still be wrong.

And the Cowboys are definitely avoiding free agents by lowballing them. They aren't being clever, they are being stubborn, expecting players to play for Dallas at a discounted rate.

At the end of the day, this is what I determine is a successful off-season or not for the Cowboys. If our expectation is that the Cowboys compete with the Rams, Saints, Eagles, and some other NFC contenders, have they improved on last year's team? Did we catch those teams shorten the gap as far as talent (players and coaching) ? Every single team will attempt to get better through the draft. Are we addressing weaknesses that caused us to come up short last year? Will Christian Covington and the 58th pick be enough to catch the Rams? hold off the Eagles? beat the Saints on the road in January?

I just want us to get better. Our off-season strategy seems to be once again hoping everyone else gets worse.

Signings obviously aren't over but I included everyone whose contract have hit the league office and been released.

The Pats will cut many of those fringe guys to get com picks for the top guys they lost.
They do this yearly.
Most smart teams strive for a net loss in FA.

The Pats lost signed for a total of 190Mil in FA, the guys they signed totaled maybe 50M. And no single player has been paid more than 10M TOTAL.
If you are trying to argue they improved or added talent you are lying to yourself.

They are working budget FA which I highly advocate. Then you release guys you don't need and work the comp formula to your advantage as DAL did last year.