Can we Find the Defensive Coaching Equivalent of Kellen Moore?

[Montanalo]

It would be quite an accomplishment to find the defensive equivalent to Moore.

Before we burn Marinelli in effigy, since taking over as DC, the Cowboys have finished in the top half of the NFL defensive stats in terms of PPG and YPG. The thing I like most about Marinelli is his drive and motivation. Leaving aside the disastrous year+ at Detroit and Marinelli is a real inspiration - particularly in his personal life.

The thing that drives me crazy about Marinelli is the apparent lack of game-day adjustments and the lack of turn-overs.

Sadly, I do think the game has past him by.

 

[JBond]

Rod Marinelli has enjoyed an illustrious career. Reality? He's old and due for retirement. Coach Richard has done some nice work with the DBs, though I am beyond frustrated with his stubborn insistence on Brown over Jourdan Lewis...and the lack of secondary turnovers.

Now look...this coaching duo could prove me wrong in the balance of the season. This post has nothing to do with changes within the next 13 weeks. We may be Super Bowl bound. We might win it all. If that happens...make Richard DC gawd.

If not...Could be time for changes. A new defensive DC...An innovator. Some real changes. What would a defensive equivalent of Kellen Moore look like? I don't think such a guy is inside the organization.

Jerry might ought to give $10 mil for the Bears, Bills, or Ravens DC. That money aint' capped.

I get the desire for the equivalent on the other side of the ball.

I believe we will adjust on defense and that our D will grow during the season. We have the players.

 

[EGTuna]

Defense is probably more about talent than scheme. Unless you're talking about Bill Belichick who uses a different scheme every week (heck, sometimes every play) based on the opponent. Also, defenses year to year show more inconsistency than offenses due to coaching, QB and OL play. Football Outsiders did a long, long article about this a few years ago.

Rarely are the Pats ranked high in yards given up (usually they're pretty low) due to teams having to play catch up. Same with the Rams the last two years. KC's defense is just plain bad. Anyone can run on them, but they get such big leads, teams have to abandon the run and KC does have some decent pass-rushers.

The true marks of a strong defense are (in no particular order):
ppg
third down percentage
red-zone percentage
turnovers
sacks

The Cowboys defense is doing great in 1,2, decent in 3, and poor in 4&5. 4&5 often go hand in hand.

Right now, the Cowboys have a good defense with the potential to be great if they can get more sacks and turnovers. It's not scheme. Rob Ryan had the most "exotic", innovative scheme in the Garret era, and how many times did they get caught with too many men on the field or give up leads in the 4th quarter? The Chargers toyed with a significant innovation last year in the WC round vs. Baltimore by deploying 6-7 DBs every snap, and it worked brilliantly (having Derwin James helps, as he can be a beast at all 3 levels), but then they foolishly deployed the same scheme vs. the Pats, and it didn't work out too well.

Sorry, one last point. Teams have been defending the Rams with 6 men on the DL, and taking away the Rams' bread-and-butter outside zone runs, and it's working. Their offense has been decent so far, but they're not the same team that ran up and down the field in 2017 and most of 2018.

 

[Future]

The DL play is holding this team back right now. Tank is under performing, but between Tank and Quinn we should be above average at DE. Our DT play is the elephant in the room. Marinelli needs to be put out to pasture.

The DL has been dominant in the last two games.

If the DBs could catch anything, the conversation around the defense is entirely different.

 

[charron]

Better players would make a difference. This unit can get better in so many areas but one thing they are really good at is not giving up many TD's. If we can get better in any other defensive catagory we will look dominant.

 

[camaro69]

The DL play is holding this team back right now. Tank is under performing, but between Tank and Quinn we should be above average at DE. Our DT play is the elephant in the room. Marinelli needs to be put out to pasture.

Why is it that when the Cowboys pay guys they under perform it never fails. We need talent at the DT position and stop with all the cast offs and bargain basement DT.

 

[zrinkill]

I like Richard.

 

[Sydla]

I think we play too passive as a defense overall. I think our problems in generating turnovers is tied to the fact we are a more passive style of defense and not an attacking defense (there are some other issues as well - such as DBs who I am not sure are great ball hawk types).

For example, our LBs have gotten criticized, especially Smith, for coverage thus far but how much of it is the play of the LBs and how much is it our passive scheme? There have been numerous times where backs or a TE catch an easy pass over the middle for 6-7 yard gains and it seems it's because our LBs seem trained to immediately back pedal on pass plays and play deeper zones. We don't seem to challenge anything short passing game. We seem content to let teams to complete short stuff all day and just prevent big plays and/or hope the offense screws up.

The defense isn't bad or terrible. It's probably anywhere from decent to good. But I think we have the personnel to be a bit more aggressive on D. Maybe that will happen as we enter the meatier portion of our schedule and face better offenses than the three dregs we just played.

 

[Whirlwin]

Why is everybody up in arms against the defense so far? There have been years when it’s been really bad and it’s killed us. This unit has shut bad teams down until garbage time. It can play a lot better, but it should be expected that it will as the season goes on if we stay healthy. It’s a really young group.

For me it's about Swagger. Demarcus Lawrence was standing there disgusted that they were cheering for Quinn after his sack . That seemed to motivate him. Were the only team that has not started inside the opponent's side of the field. You want the other team punting from their 30-40 not then don't break all the way down to our side of the field. For me again it's about Swagger motivation who's the leader of this defense. Because we definitely have the talent

 

[dfense]

3-0 is not acceptable.... they can do better.

 

[quickccc]

Why is everybody up in arms against the defense so far? There have been years when it’s been really bad and it’s killed us. This unit has shut bad teams down until garbage time. It can play a lot better, but it should be expected that it will as the season goes on if we stay healthy. It’s a really young group.

I guess because even with these bad, weak sister teams we've played, the expectations is so high that we should have had multiple sacks but instead the Eli, Keenum and Rosen still have
ample time to sit in pocket and wing it away into our pass defense - and have came up with chunk plays (per Awuzie mostly, imo)
if those lower QBs can do that, what will happen when we get to the better QBs on our schedule ? Rodgers, Brady, Goff, Stafford, Wentz, etc.

the Cowboys coaches and execs have already admitted that they need to get a better pass rush than what is seen thus far.
and I've already been saying we will never be a top turnover unit with those two starting CBs in the lineup, their game is never geared to getting INTs.

 

[Idgit]

For me it's about Swagger. Demarcus Lawrence was standing there disgusted that they were cheering for Quinn after his sack . That seemed to motivate him. Were the only team that has not started inside the opponent's side of the field. You want the other team punting from their 30-40 not then don't break all the way down to our side of the field. For me again it's about Swagger motivation who's the leader of this defense. Because we definitely have the talent

Sure. But that normally develops over the course of a season. We didn’t peak as a defense last season until, like, week 12. Teams develop into contenders over the course of the season.

The success we’re having on offense is going to get countered, too. Eight weeks in, teams will be figuring it out, and we’ll have to adjust or win by out-talenting teams again. Or the defense will start putting it together and actually be a force that the offense just complements.

 

[Sydla]

Moore is an aggressive offensive play caller. I'd like to see someone of the same ilk on defense. We have two LBs that can really move and are good blitzers. For all the crap I give Heath, he's quick enough to be an effective blitzer from the SS spot.

I'd like to see us attack the LOS more. We play a more read and react kind of defense than I'd like.

 

[quickccc]

My peeves with Rod Marinelli:
- I do not like the revolving door and low regard for the 1 tech role, that seems to be continuing under Marinelli as he was insistence in hanging on to scrubs like nick hayden for years
I still see some here continue want “ fatties” to which I don’t want a fattie, just for the sake of having one, I want a legit, stud run stopper regards of what his size is .

- people like Broaddus can keep saying McClay was in on the pick of Taco, but there’s no question he was influenced by the preference of Marinelli, and desire for “Length “, and David Irving types.
That prompted the pass over of TJ Watt, and lead to selection of Taco – and while the talk of length and size, we were already committed to 237 lbs randy gregory as a 4-3 DE,
but yet we supposedly had issues with TJ Watt as a 4-3 end ? ( 15+ pounds bigger than Gregory)

- another thing I was so surprised about with the Taco pick , was Rod has always seemed to emphasized get off burst with his ends and tackles, and get off was the worst thing going for Taco per his game tapes.He looked slow and cumbersome and I had such a hard time trying to convince myself to like the pick.
Oddly, I had no such issue with Trysten Hill’s game tape but I most certainly did with Taco’s. Hill displayed the get off that Rod has previously been expressing,

- I think McClay may have uncharacteristically “ reached ‘ for Taco because he was concerned that there would not have been the DEs on his board by the time of
our 2nd round pick came around.

- So that’s where I do blame McClay for not sticking to his draft value board and picking the best available defensive player according to that board.
and while we are still scratching and searching for that key edge rusher (hopefully Quinn) TJ Watt is still collecting 13-15 sacks seasons in Steeler land.

 

[Sydla]

My peeves with Rod Marinelli:
- I do not like the revolving door and low regard for the 1 tech role, that seems to be continuing under Marinelli as he was insistence in hanging on to scrubs like nick hayden for years
I still see some here continue want “ fatties” to which I don’t want a fattie, just for the sake of having one, I want a legit, stud run stopper regards of what his size is .

Absolutely agree. This team has treated the 1T as the most fungible position on the defense along with S. Just look at the assets spent on those positions and it tells you that their "plan" is to skimp on resources there and use them in other places. And that "plan" is largely based on the influence and desires of Marinelli.

- people like Broaddus can keep saying McClay was in on the pick of Taco, but there’s no question he was influenced by the preference of Marinelli, and desire for “Length “, and David Irving types.
That prompted the pass over of TJ Watt, and lead to selection of Taco – and while the talk of length and size, we were already committed to 237 lbs randy gregory as a 4-3 DE,
but yet we supposedly had issues with TJ Watt as a 4-3 end ? ( 15+ pounds bigger than Gregory)

McClay was definitely on board but others like Sturm have also said Marinelli was a heavy influence in that room to also pick Charlton. Just like how apparently McClay was on board with Hill. But still, Hill gets picked only because Marinelli gave them the blessing. But at least with Hill, he doesn't seem to have the motivational baggage that Charlton seemed to have coming out of Michigan.

- I think McClay may have uncharacteristically “ reached ‘ for Taco because he was concerned that there would not have been the DEs on his board by the time of
our 2nd round pick came around.
- So that’s where I do blame McClay for not sticking to his draft value board and picking the best available defensive player according to that board.
and while we are still scratching and searching for that key edge rusher (hopefully Quinn) TJ Watt is still collecting 13-15 sacks seasons in Steeler land.

Absolutely and I think it was reported at the time that the Cowboys wanted a DE or CB in the first round and given how the draft board fell, they were confident there would be CBs available in the 2nd and 3rd round that they really liked, so they reached and went DE in the first. There was also mixed stories on Watt. Some said Marinelli didn't think he could find a way to use Watt, others said Marinelli would have been OK with Watt.

Regardless, they botched that draft pick plain and simple. Doesn't mean McClay isn't good at what he does, but he made a mistake there and I think it was heavily influenced on Marinelli's input.

 

[quickccc]

Rod Marinelli has enjoyed an illustrious career. Reality? He's old and due for retirement. Coach Richard has done some nice work with the DBs, though I am beyond frustrated with his stubborn insistence on Brown over Jourdan Lewis...and the lack of secondary turnovers.

Now look...this coaching duo could prove me wrong in the balance of the season. This post has nothing to do with changes within the next 13 weeks. We may be Super Bowl bound. We might win it all. If that happens...make Richard DC gawd.

If not...Could be time for changes. A new defensive DC...An innovator. Some real changes. What would a defensive equivalent of Kellen Moore look like? I don't think such a guy is inside the organization.

Jerry might ought to give $10 mil for the Bears, Bills, or Ravens DC. That money aint' capped.

- With Jordan lewis, I think fans are insisting on him because he plays a feisty game and seems to have the best INT hands and ball hawk skills among the DBs.
Jordan seems like a give some- take some DB, he can make some breakup in coverage and make some INTs if positioned, but he can also be took in coverage and at times for big plays
and if schemed right and given a limited role, he can be effective. if he has to take a bigger role as to running with the speedsters on the flank, I think he can be exposed,

- I tend to think Lewis would work best in a cover 2 scheme where he can play off cushion and keep plays in front of him to jump INTs, he may not just be a fit in Richard’s man press
coverage scheme. And I’ll take Richard’s way per his Legion of Boom direction, he has a proven resume and credentials to me.

- What I’d be interested in Richard if he takes over the full DC is his preference for the DL coach – would he continue with Marinelli ,
Would management (who seems to adore Marinelli) insist that Richard keep Marinelli as DL coach?
and Kris has had success as a DC in Seattle, before Carroll and he had indifference in philosophy that led to his dismissal.

- I've read where Kris prefers to blitz, ..he likes man press to wear down WRs, and he has a bigger preference to gamble and get the opposition off field, more than Marinelli’s
bend don’t break tendencies (to which players complaint) The Byron jones conversion to CB maybe remain Richard's biggest stamp of approval thus far,

I still don't think we have all the necessary tools needed, we lack the disruptive horses in the middle, I have my doubts about Awuzie, Jones lack of INTs will ever make us limited,
and Heath has his tackling limitations and we have a lack of ball hawks on this team.

- My issue was more on management than even the coaches, as the failure to sign proven All pro FS stud Earl Thomas, who the team was obviously interested in trading for .
but yet when Earl became a FA, and no picks needed to get him, suddenly acquiring him wasn’t a high prioriety ? Lack of turnovers – Earl here would have immediately addressed that.

- Pair him with Xavier and let it rip. But nope that idea and golden opportunity goes outta the window.(sigh)

 

[Diehardblues]

It’s really a little too early to know what we have in Moore yet. Let’s wait until all the results come in before we anoint him the 2nd coming.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I think that has more to do with the schedule and who we played.

With that said I do not think the D is bad but I would like to see us blitz more often and hide the blitz better.

Understood but if the defense is bad then it shouldn't matter who they play. A bad defense gives up points against a bad team. Look at the Giants. They let Winston throw all over them.

The defense hasn't come into form yet and I do worry if it ever will but its being overblown how bad they've been. Usually teams who score 30 a game give up a lot of points a game. The more points you score the more you give up. That hasn't been the case for this team though I'm sure it will even itself at some point.

 

[John813]

@quickccc I think the Thomas interest was there, but not at the price tag he got. They are dollar store shoppers in FA land. I think had they traded for him they would of been more willing to pay him to not lose him after a year rental.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Richard is getting the blame for lack of turnovers but fact of the matter is if you can't get pressure on the quarterback and make him throw stupid passes then you aren't going to generate many picks. People fail to realize that most interceptions come from stupid passes by the quarterback. It doesn't come because of great cornerback or safety play. Its not Richard's fault then the pass rush isn't there and when they do get a pick they can't hold on to it. HE can't catch it for them too.

I like though how we assume that there is defensive guru that's just sitting out there lol. Cowboys got lucky with Moore. Don't hold your breathe on them finding another one.