Beating Marinelli's Scheme

[Creeper]

Its not so much the scheme as the players.

 

[Whyjerry]

Rod runs a very basic cover 2 scheme and does his best to keep to 4 rushers. He doesn't understand that this defense is outdated due to rule changes and offensive scheme changes.

Like everything Dallas Cowboys he does VERY little to create deception. When he goes single high safety teams know to look for a blitz, either LB, CB or, very rarely, S. He will do a little stunting/twisting at the DL but often it is straight line rush. He has pulled his LBs more off the LOS and has them reacting rather than attacking / filling at the LOS. That is a huge issue because his interior line gets inconsistent push. He doesn't have the space eating DT to take on a couple blockers. The also is a big issue. The other thing that bothers me is he doesn't seem to key on players. They did a good job on Wilson in the playoffs (Smith spied him) but he gets away from doing that too much. Another thing he doesn't do is stack pass rushers. Good defenses will stack up 3 guys on a blocker or 2 and have at it. Dallas again is too straight line.

The guy has done a terrible job.

 

[TheBigEasy]

When I see someone scheming w/ the Dallas D on Madden, I always smile and know that they're in for a long day. Grant it...it's just a video game, but if I can march up and down the field against it, I know that it's time for a new philosophy.

 

[doomsday9084]

It struck me against Minnesota how vulnerable Dallas is to a lead blocker. If everyone takes their gaps, then the guy in the target hole has to deal with a lineman and a fullback. Once that guy is beat, everyone is tied up and its relatively easy to turn it into an 8+ yard gain. That's what happens over and over in this defense. They stop for no gain frequently but when one guy gets beat, its a big play.

As a side note, the other problem with the defense is that it has a very soft middle on passing plays. I swear that teams can get 5 to 7 yards over the middle on every play if they want it. Its highly predictable too. There are no zone blitzes where a defensive lineman drops off into coverage. The QB knows where everyone is going to be and opposing players have publicly said so.

Dallas' offensive scheme needs to be tweaked but the defensive concept needs to be trashed entirely. As is being noted all over, the defense has sucked for the better part of a decade now. Its funny how the Romo vs Dak narrative is slowly changing as the Dak supporters see how hard it is when you have to score 30+ every week to get a W.

 

[quickccc]

I prefer some two gap defense with a rush coming off the edge but it's not happening this year anyway

Question: what other NFL team that is running a 4-3 scheme would be the ideal 4-3 defense that you would like to see here in Dallas instead ?

 

[quickccc]

It struck me against Minnesota how vulnerable Dallas is to a lead blocker. If everyone takes their gaps, then the guy in the target hole has to deal with a lineman and a fullback. Once that guy is beat, everyone is tied up and its relatively easy to turn it into an 8+ yard gain. That's what happens over and over in this defense. They stop for no gain frequently but when one guy gets beat, its a big play.

As a side note, the other problem with the defense is that it has a very soft middle on passing plays. I swear that teams can get 5 to 7 yards over the middle on every play if they want it. Its highly predictable too. There are no zone blitzes where a defensive lineman drops off into coverage. The QB knows where everyone is going to be and opposing players have publicly said so.

Dallas' offensive scheme needs to be tweaked but the defensive concept needs to be trashed entirely. As is being noted all over, the defense has sucked for the better part of a decade now. Its funny how the Romo vs Dak narrative is slowly changing as the Dak supporters see how hard it is when you have to score 30+ every week to get a W.

A physical lead FB is an extra OL on the move into the incoming tackler, if you have a really good one that is great at that area, it runs such interefere and disruption to the secondary defenders
and presents a problem with LBs trying to shed off that key lead blocker... and it's several good teams ,..like even the Saints and Pats, that use an occasional lead FB, it's just they do it in spots,
occasions and select packages. and i'm assuming those FBs also contribute on special teams in one way or another. ..ala Keith Smith, Jamele Owalale (sp)

While I think a single backfield is the still by far leading state of art run plays, and it's better for the vision and maneuverability of the RB to not be as slow down waiting for a FB, I think
it really does help to have that occasional crush-blocking FB to add and change up the blocking scheme to the defense and it's second level of defenders.in delivering a different look and an immediate physical mode
But this current coaching staff doesn't place value in lead blocking as our starting FB Jamele is so very average and finesse in that area.

 

[quickccc]

Marinelli is just a title this year. He is a glorifed DL coach. Richards is running the defense and doing the positioning and play calling. He's got LVE and Jaylon all screwed up, and that is the future foundation of the defense.

I think Marinelli is just going to retire. He's 70 years old.

this organization just loves and adores Marinelli, they think he's old school and unique, and they've went on record as saying they are " so lucky to have him "

Leads me to think they want Marinelli to handle the DL coach role as long as he wants.

and those old dinosaurs tend to hang on and around for years and years after. they have to be pushed to retirement or push off the team as not re-signing them .

 

[CowboyRoy]

I thought I'd run a strategy by you all for beating Marinelli.

His whole shtick is getting his defense upfield through a gap and run defending "on the way to the QB". Ok. Use that against him.

Either a defender is in a gap you plan to hit with the RB, or not.
If yes, block.
If not, usher the dlineman upfield *where he's trying to go* and go block a LB.

Unlike a two gap which holds a line of defense across the LOS, Marinelli's one gap rush is vacating the LOS if they can manage to get upfield. So let them. Help them. Help the *right* ones.

Teams seem to abuse us in the run game by getting up on our LBs. Eberflus simply spanked us that way. How? Should be one defender trying to get upfield somewhere the play ain't going. That's one blocker who can go looking for a LB.

There was talk about the Rams having "tells" on our dline. Do you really need tells? Just react on where the dlineman lines up and tries to go. If the dlineman is going somewhere the ball ain't, help him get there, and go block a LB. Or just another lineman.

I'm sure it's not quite so simple, but I do think this is the basic strategy to use against Marinelli. Use the attempt get upfield past the oline to our advantage.

I honestly don't think it as much a scheme thing as it is a personnel thing. Our DT's are abysmal for the most part. The job of the DT is to get a push and keep the lineman from getting to the linebackers. Which takes us to the 2nd issue. Jaylon Smith is NOT a good MLB at stopping the run. He gets washed out by lineman too easily. This was a problem for him in college as well. And then of course we all know we have a safety problem. We are very very weak against the run up the middle.

Then I think you can get to the predictability and tells with the defense.

 

[bigdnlaca]

The pass defense hasn't been the problem, it's been solid. It's the run D, which is heavily reliant on not missing tackles. Giving up 140 yards after contact isn't going to get it done.

This part isn't true. They are good when they know it will be a passing down. However, they struggle against the pass if the opposing team are on 1st down or down and distance where a run could be called.

Proof is Aaron Rodgers. He torched the Cowboys without his number 1 target in the first half and they weren't even running the ball much this year. In fact, he did the same thing in 2016 playoffs.

 

[Tabascocat]

The one-gap rush is killing our linebackers. It would help with better DT’s but we don’t have that luxury right now. Hopefully, the DLine is properly addressed this offseason.

 

[ondaedg]

Teams have been letting our "rushmen" run right by them while they hit huge holes for awhile now. Im not sure if it started vs Colts but since that game we've been exposed several times.

I also think this defense is detrimental to our LBS. We need to keep em clean and utilize their strengths.

We need a more effective defense scheme.

Yep on several of those big runs they would completely ignore the DE on the opposite side of the run. This means they have 3OL blocking our 3 down linemen and 2OL and a TE hitting our linebackers. The math sucks for us.

 

[quickccc]

I believe the story about the tells with the Rams. My point was that I don't think you need tells to beat Marinelli's system.

Obviously with better players you get better results, but even with high level DTs, will Marinelli's system work? I see a schematic issue against the run.

I believe it goes beyond the Rams game,.. I believe (and seen) several other games we've had where these run defense flaws were already revealing themselves before it
eventually got at it's worst by the time Colts and Rams game came on to the scene,
And you have to give yourself the eye ball test vs PFF stats that can be misleading

For instance, the Packers are not a running team, they lead off Aaron Rodgers , ..but yet this is the 2nd time straight lesser heralded Aaron Jones has made swiss- cheese fools
out of this run scheme.

And it's not all on the DL, as the LBs have to be made accountable too for whiff tackles, fooled out of position and not getting off blocks, but I will always protest that
it all starts up front ..

.and think about any top notch run defense,- and you will always see recognized personnel talent added by the coaching staff and scheme.
and it's not just the 1 tech role, and just one lone player ...you need the complete unit as a collective team to combine as a great group.

But in what he does, the specialty of that 1 tech should be a starting foundation to a great run defense (ala Lindvall Joseph)
then you work on the other DL members (which Maliek is an inconsistent run guy too and a problem,imo) before you go to the LBs (which Jaylon is still too up and down
and LVE is a mere shell of himself in 2019)

- But I will still persist that we really need to change and upgrade the DL coach, the preference and personnel.
the secret is out that we can be " out-physical " and we can be out-fooled and we wont get to be a genuine top run defense until we get Marinelli outta here

 

[quickccc]

The one-gap rush is killing our linebackers. It would help with better DT’s but we don’t have that luxury right now. Hopefully, the DLine is properly addressed this offseason.

won't matter if the current DL coach remains here ,,as he will still insist on his preferred low regarded 1 tech (JAGs) that he thinks he can upgrade to a top defender, he is still going to want his
size /mass preference, he is still going to want his quick twitch movement type over brute strength/bulk, he is still going to run his one gap run scheme, which teams are either out-physical or/and out fooling them with stronger trench men or misdirection in one sense or another.
and he will still insist and be content with these revolving door 1 tech JAGs that we continue to come and go. And I will never understand how he puts his best DL guys on the sideline in many of these red zones and goal line situations.

 

[Blackspider214]

The Dallas defense is Basic.

No one is fooled.

Its all Cover 1 or 3.

Man or zone.

We see the odd LB or slot blitz a few times.

That's about it.

Everyone is playing 1 gap.

The DEs don't contain, so the outside is always open.

Sam Darnold, who is a god awful QB even when healthy, came back from mono and torched this defense and crapped all over our scheme in public. That tells you all you need to know about Rod's defense. I despise him and Garrett. They are the root problems of our scheme and why we get outplayed so often.

Coaching matters much more in the NFL than the lower levels because the talent discrepancy is very minimal. Every team is fast, strong and talented. This is where the coaches come into play and dissect game film and find a way to get an edge. Make adjustments during the game to counter what the opponent is doing and trying to stay a step ahead. We have none of that on either side of the ball. We run the most basic offense and defense that can be figured out by high school players.

 

[Blackspider214]

won't matter if the current DL coach remains here ,,as he will still insist on his preferred low regarded 1 tech (JAGs) that he thinks he can upgrade to a top defender, he is still going to want his
size /mass preference, he is still going to want his quick twitch movement type over brute strength/bulk, he is still going to run his one gap run scheme, which teams are either out-physical or/and out fooling them with stronger trench men or misdirection in one sense or another.
and he will still insist and be content with these revolving door 1 tech JAGs that we continue to come and go. And I will never understand how he puts his best DL guys on the sideline in many of these red zones and goal line situations.

Rod is the reason we passed on very talented players for junk guys that end up hating him and he hates them i.e. Taco and Hill. I have zero idea where this moniker that he is some great coach and he works magic. All of his DTs are atrocious.

 

[JohnsKey19]

As many complaints I've had about Marinelli, I think his defense could be rock solid and consistent, if we simply upgraded the DT positions and SS. But that will never happen for whatever reasons....

 

[Haimerej]

He doesn't understand that this defense is outdated due to rule changes and offensive scheme changes.

How is it outdated? Elaborate.

The fact is every team in the league runs a version of cover 2, cover 3, single high, etc. This whole, "outdated," argument is nonsense. I think people like to use it because he's old.

 

[doomsday9084]

A physical lead FB is an extra OL on the move into the incoming tackler, if you have a really good one that is great at that area, it runs such interefere and disruption to the secondary defenders
and presents a problem with LBs trying to shed off that key lead blocker... and it's several good teams ,..like even the Saints and Pats, that use an occasional lead FB, it's just they do it in spots,
occasions and select packages. and i'm assuming those FBs also contribute on special teams in one way or another. ..ala Keith Smith, Jamele Owalale (sp)

While I think a single backfield is the still by far leading state of art run plays, and it's better for the vision and maneuverability of the RB to not be as slow down waiting for a FB, I think
it really does help to have that occasional crush-blocking FB to add and change up the blocking scheme to the defense and it's second level of defenders.in delivering a different look and an immediate physical mode
But this current coaching staff doesn't place value in lead blocking as our starting FB Jamele is so very average and finesse in that area.

Good post. I was just noting that a 1 gap scheme is going to be more susceptible to a FB in the hole than a 2 gap. In a 2 gap, the linemen are supposed to plug up the oline and leave the linebackers free to follow the FB into a hole. In a 1 gap, you might have Jaylen assigned to a hole having to shed a lineman AND a fullback and if he fails, the RB is through to the next level.

Its even worse if the offense runs into a stunt and picks the right gap.

 

[buybuydandavis]

. Despite the Ram game, we had a top 5 run defense last year. Whats changed? IMO, the LB core has changed. It is trash this year. I don't know if its scheme or what.

Both LVE and Smith don't look right. If Smith isn't wearing his drop foot orthotic, he should put it back on.

But last year we also got spanked by the Colts and that Rams. It's not just a drop off from players.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Poor defensive tackles that lose their matchup. Pretty simple really.

Crawford, Taco, Ross, and Reid. Those are the guys we're missing from last year. You think they're the secret sauce? I don't.