Henry vs Zeke

[G2]

He faces many more stacked boxes than Zeke does. Baltimore is one of the best defenses in the league and had 8-9 man boxes on 63% of Henry's runs this past weekend. Henry still gashed them.

I think that it's worth mentioning that not all 8-9 in the box are going after the RB specifically, many fall back into coverage. Literally having that many means 2 players cover the back lot. Not realistic.

 

[stuckindc]

As noted, they went 12-4 two years prior with Murray at TB. Somehow they did that without Elliott. No one is denying Elliott's importance. It's simply pointing out that people like you overvalue his importance. He was a cog in the wheel, not THE wheel all by itself.

If you want to give credit to anyone for 2016, start with the OL. They were probably more responsible for 13-3 than any other position on the field.

PS - In 2017 when Elliott got suspended........... they were 6-4 with Elliott, 3-3 without him while suspended. Hardly that big a difference that one can conclude with certainty that the 2017 season was lost because we didn't have Elliott for 6 games.

as noted.??? really...you mean the 2014 season with Romo ??? big difference between Romo and Dak...and you can say the same for the 2014 season in regard to the oline.

 

[Sydla]

as noted.??? really...you mean the 2014 season with Romo ??? big difference between Romo and Dak...and you can say the same for the 2014 season in regard to the oline.

I never suggested anything other than this. My Murray point was simply to point out that in 2014 the Cowboys used the same recipe to win as they did in 2016 with different players. So to say 2016 was all due to Zeke is just an overstatement by the crowd that constantly has Zeke blinders on.

2014 and 2016 were probably mostly on the backs of having an OL that just pretty much dominated game in and game out.

 

[khiladi]

In the 2016 season, we started off the season 2-3, with a pass heavy offense.

Linehan then went heavy Zeke and had the Cowboys run Zeke over 20 times a game and they went on a three game win streak. They then went into the six game suspension and Dallas imploded.


We were 3-3 when Zeke was suspended, but we couldn't even break double digit scoring against average to good teams. We lost three games in a row to winning teams and Dak had couldn't even average 150 yards throwing through three games. We committed 8 TOs those games.

Our 3 game win streak were against bottom dwellers, with teams in worse conditions than us and even then Dak struggled. The Commanders, he didn't even break 100 yards scoring. It was actually the defense that carried us, generating 7 TOs in that stretch. Even against the Giants, about 140 yards came on busted secondary plays by the Giants, where Dak just dinked it off and Smith and Beasley took it to the house or ran like 50 yards. And that all came in the 4th when the Giants imploded.

So no, our offense hasn't proven to be able to run without Zeke consistently.

 

[CATCH17]

Henry is having a season for the ages. Zeke has been better than him through the length of their careers.

You can just watch both guys play and it's obvious as anything that Zeke is a better player then Derrick Henry but Henry is hot right now.

The problem with Henry is he almost strictly north and south and you might get 1 cut upfield if youre lucky.

But he is a different guy when he hits top speed. Look out. It's Adrian Peterson like in those situations.

What blows my mind is they have had him for awhile and they've barely used him. I think he could've been traded for last year for not a lot.


Now the Titans look like they are a Bill Parcells type team and they're going to try and orchestrate W's with that run game.

 

[stuckindc]

I never suggested anything other than this. My Murray point was simply to point out that in 2014 the Cowboys used the same recipe to win as they did in 2016 with different players. So to say 2016 was all due to Zeke is just an overstatement by the crowd that constantly has Zeke blinders on.

2014 and 2016 were probably mostly on the backs of having an OL that just pretty much dominated game in and game out.

the difference between 2014 and 2016 is huge..considering you have a pro bowl veteran top tier QB..having one of if not his best season as a pro vs a rookie 4th round qb...Meaning that Zeke was way more instrumental and the wheel ..not the cog like Murray in that teams success...Comparing those two teams and leaving out Romo vs Dak is an extremely large difference. So lets put Zeke on the 2014 team and Murray on the 2016...you're saying the results would have been the same?

 

[stuckindc]

In the 2016 season, we started off the season 2-3, with a pass heavy offense.

Linehan then went heavy Zeke and had the Cowboys run Zeke over 20 times a game and they went on a three game win streak. They then went into the six game suspension and Dallas imploded.


We were 3-3 when Zeke was suspended, but we couldn't even break double digit scoring against average to good teams. We lost three games in a row to winning teams and Dak had couldn't even average 150 yards throwing through three games. We committed 8 TOs those games.

Our 3 game win streak were against bottom dwellers, with teams in worse conditions than us and even then Dak struggled. The Commanders, he didn't even break 100 yards scoring. It was actually the defense that carried us, generating 7 TOs in that stretch. Even against the Giants, about 140 yards came on busted secondary plays by the Giants, where Dak just dinked it off and Smith and Beasley took it to the house or ran like 50 yards. And that all came in the 4th when the Giants imploded.

So no, our offense hasn't proven to be able to run without Zeke consistently.

2016 they started out 11-1

 

[OmerV]

the difference between 2014 and 2016 is huge..considering you have a pro bowl veteran top tier QB..having one of if not his best season as a pro vs a rookie 4th round qb...Meaning that Zeke was way more instrumental and the wheel ..not the cog like Murray in that teams success...Comparing those two teams and leaving out Romo vs Dak is an extremely large difference. So lets put Zeke on the 2014 team and Murray on the 2016...you're saying the results would have been the same?

Dak's stats in 2016 were very much the same as Romo's in 2014, and Murray's stats in 2014 were as good or better than Zeke's stat's in 2016. Accordingly, you can't say success in 2016 was any more about the running game than in 2014. The balance was very close to the same in both years.

 

[Sydla]

the difference between 2014 and 2016 is huge..considering you have a pro bowl veteran top tier QB..having one of if not his best season as a pro vs a rookie 4th round qb...Meaning that Zeke was way more instrumental and the wheel ..not the cog like Murray in that teams success...Comparing those two teams and leaving out Romo vs Dak is an extremely large difference. So lets put Zeke on the 2014 team and Murray on the 2016...you're saying the results would have been the same?

I think the results would have been quite similar, yes. Largely because the OL was what drove those teams, not the TB.

 

[khiladi]

2016 they started out 11-1

You know what I mean that it doesn't need a whole post to point out just that.

 

[khiladi]

Dak's stats in 2016 were very much the same as Romo's in 2014, and Murray's stats in 2014 were as good or better than Zeke's stat's in 2016. Accordingly, you can't say success in 2016 was any more about the running game than in 2014. The balance was very close to the same in both years.

No they weren't. Romo threw for 34 TDs and 9 INTs.

 

[G2]

I never suggested anything other than this. My Murray point was simply to point out that in 2014 the Cowboys used the same recipe to win as they did in 2016 with different players. So to say 2016 was all due to Zeke is just an overstatement by the crowd that constantly has Zeke blinders on.

2014 and 2016 were probably mostly on the backs of having an OL that just pretty much dominated game in and game out.

Yeah, that's how good running games work. They have good O lines.

 

[stuckindc]

Dak's stats in 2016 were very much the same as Romo's in 2014, and Murray's stats in 2014 were as good or better than Zeke's stat's in 2016. Accordingly, you can't say success in 2016 was any more about the running game than in 2014. The balance was very close to the same in both years.

Dak's stats in 2016 were very much the same as Romo's in 2014, and Murray's stats in 2014 were as good or better than Zeke's stat's in 2016. Accordingly, you can't say success in 2016 was any more about the running game than in 2014. The balance was very close to the same in both years.

except Romo had 11 more TD's ...

 

[Sydla]

Yeah, that's how good running games work. They have good O lines.

And?

 

[stuckindc]

You know what I mean that it doesn't need a whole post to point out just that.

I know...Just messing with you...and really enjoying the posts ...Good arguments by everyone...This is what happens when the Boys aren't in the playoffs...we split hairs...Nothing else to do..

 

[stuckindc]

And?

I think he/ they are telling us that our argument is getting tedious and that neither team would do anything without the Olines...I could be wrong.

 

[G2]

And?

And I think you're not a fan of any Dallas players.

 

[G2]

I think he/ they are telling us that our argument is getting tedious and that neither team would do anything without the Olines...I could be wrong.

Or a solid RBs. It takes a bunch of stuff.

 

[OmerV]

except Romo had 11 more TD's ...

Not if you count Dak's rushing TD's. That makes the difference 5. And of course the stats aren't identical - Romo's were a tick better. But they were still very similar, and with very similar contributions from the running game. In the end, they were very similar teams that relied on an efficient and effective passing game and a strong running element for offensive success.

 

[Sydla]

Or a solid RBs. It takes a bunch of stuff.

Thanks for proving my point. It takes "a bunch of stuff". In other words, the 2016 season wasn't all due to the exploits of Elliott like some here are opining. It took a bunch of things. But if you want to start with who gets credit, start with the OL first and foremost.