Henry vs Zeke

[Aviano90]

His 99 yd run wasn't a monster run. It was some of the absolute worst tackling I've ever seen.

Yeah, those stiff arms had nothing to do with it. If only Zeke could get so lucky with bad tackling he may gain more than 40 yards one of these years.

 

[Sydla]

so much so that running back carried the team to the #1 overall seed? that's with a rookie qb...

no...they had a 4th round rookie..

That rookie 4th round pick played very well.

I see you ignored the question. Using your logic, Dallas would have gone 13-3 with Brandon Weeden as QB, right?

 

[kskboys]

Yeah, those stiff arms had nothing to do with it. If only Zeke could get so lucky with bad tackling he may gain more than 40 yards one of these years.

Yeah, that was so silly I didn't even want to respond!!!!!!! A 99 yd run is always a monster run.

 

[Aviano90]

so much so that running back carried the team to the #1 overall seed? that's with a rookie qb...

no...they had a 4th round rookie..

Well, we went 12-4 in 2014 with Murray carrying the team with an undrafted QB.

 

[stuckindc]

That rookie 4th round pick played very well.

I see you ignored the question. Using your logic, Dallas would have gone 13-3 with Brandon Weeden as QB, right?

he did play well...no doubt ...Who knows..with Weeden and a good running game. Most likely not...But none of it happens with either QB without Zeke. He was the reason Dak was able to do what he did. When teams decided to take Zeke away and load the box..How did Dak do?

 

[stuckindc]

Well, we went 12-4 in 2014 with Murray carrying the team with an undrafted QB.

excellent point..I stand corrected!

 

[Sydla]

he did play well...no doubt ...Who knows..with Weeden and a good running game. Most likely not...But none of it happens with either QB without Zeke. He was the reason Dak was able to do what he did. When teams decided to take Zeke away and load the box..How did Dak do?

See the difference here is that you think it was Zeke that did everything whereas I think there were a number of RBs running behind this OL that could have produced what Elliott did.

When Elliott was suspended, Dak did play worse. But also note the team didn't play great since the 2016 season when Elliott did play, especially recently. So over the totality of his career, just how valuable has Elliott been? The answer is he's important but clearly not as valuable to our success as people want to think.

 

[kskboys]

But isnt the argument explosive overall? That's not settled by a stop watch timing of how long it takes them to get to the hole.

Of course.

The stats you were saying undermined my argument are the stopwatches. I agree it doesn't settle anything.

Henry is a semi. He takes a bit to get going, but is unstoppable once he does. You can watch TENN's O and see that they scheme to get him the ball further back most of the time so he has some steps to get going. One of the equalizers I see is that even when he's not at full speed, he's still massively hard to tackle.

I'm not interested in the Henry vs Zeke argument in the usual sense. Bores me. Right now, there's no doubt that Henry is the better back. I don't know if Zeke will ever get back to where he was, as he appears to be unmotivated and only interested in what he can get by w/ using strictly his natural gifts, as opposed to getting in great shape and taking his game to another level. He's been highly disappointing.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

It has taken Henry a few years to really get going, this place would have already ripped him to peices before he got to this point of productivity.

Henry would have been productive Day 1 in our offense.

Alfred Morris who we pulled off the street was productive for us. To think that Henry would have struggled behind our 2016 line is a joke.

 

[Hennessy_King]

never thought Ramsey worth the money, but I don't mind head aches

we need some head aches around here ... way too many boy scouts lacking kill in the their mentality

I'll take nut cases like Dandy Don, Lily, Hayes, Duane Thomas, Hollywood, ... Irvin, Haley or even Dez and TO over the iffy playmakers all too common on this team

We trying to run this team like a corporate office with corny accountants with no swag that show up to work 30 minutes early to brown nose.

 

[stuckindc]

See the difference here is that you think it was Zeke that did everything whereas I think there were a number of RBs running behind this OL that could have produced what Elliott did.

When Elliott was suspended, Dak did play worse. But also note the team didn't play great since the 2016 season when Elliott did play, especially recently. So over the totality of his career, just how valuable has Elliott been? The answer is he's important but clearly not as valuable to our success as people want to think.

I think without Zeke they don't sniff a 13-3 record and all the offensive success revolved around him...No play action , which was where Dak hurt teams in the passing...Dak's success was due to teams having to account for Zeke..whether it was him actually running or receiving is not the point ..the point is Zeke made everything else go...LB's bit on the play fake because Zeke was gashing teams..thus allowing Dak to hit wide open guys or be check down charlie as he was commonly refereed to..I think it's lazy to diminish Zeke's importance. They got exposed when Zeke was suspended. And until they got Amari for Dak ...they were 3-5? Defenses committed to stopping Zeke and make Dak beat them

 

[khiladi]

Henry is having a season for the ages. Zeke has been better than him through the length of their careers.

 

[khiladi]

The value of Zeke is seen in how teams defend the Cowboys.

Even if other RBs are on this team and they are rushing for a thousand yards, like in 2015 for example, nobody is stacking the boxes for them.

And the irony is, the Titans were average with Mariotta as QB. They added Tannehill, who was having a mediocre career, and since he's had this RG, he's been at the top of the league in QB play. This man is throwing at 70% at 22 TDs and only 7 INTs and unlike Dak, these are numbers he's doing with a mediocre PASS BLOCKING line that has given up 56 SACKS THIS YEAR.

So if anybody doesn't think the Cowboys have options in changing QBs with this RG, they are delusional.

 

[Jake0]

The value of Zeke is seen in how teams defend the Cowboys.

Even if other RBs are on this team and they are rushing for a thousand yards, nobody is stacking the boxes for them.

Henry is demanding 9 man fronts in Tennessee and still gashing the hell out of them bro.

 

[Sydla]

I think without Zeke they don't sniff a 13-3 record and all the offensive success revolved around him...No play action , which was where Dak hurt teams in the passing...Dak's success was due to teams having to account for Zeke..whether it was him actually running or receiving is not the point ..the point is Zeke made everything else go...LB's bit on the play fake because Zeke was gashing teams..thus allowing Dak to hit wide open guys or be check down charlie as he was commonly refereed to..I think it's lazy to diminish Zeke's importance. They got exposed when Zeke was suspended. And until they got Amari for Dak ...they were 3-5? Defenses committed to stopping Zeke and make Dak beat them

As noted, they went 12-4 two years prior with Murray at TB. Somehow they did that without Elliott. No one is denying Elliott's importance. It's simply pointing out that people like you overvalue his importance. He was a cog in the wheel, not THE wheel all by itself.

If you want to give credit to anyone for 2016, start with the OL. They were probably more responsible for 13-3 than any other position on the field.

PS - In 2017 when Elliott got suspended........... they were 6-4 with Elliott, 3-3 without him while suspended. Hardly that big a difference that one can conclude with certainty that the 2017 season was lost because we didn't have Elliott for 6 games.

 

[khiladi]

Henry is demanding 9 man fronts in Tennessee and still gashing the hell out of them bro.

The Titans were struggling period with Mariotta and Henry.

The Titans were average with Mariotta as QB. They added Tannehill, who was having a mediocre career, and since he's had this RG, he's been at the top of the league in QB play. This man is throwing at 70% at 22 TDs and only 7 INTs and unlike Dak, these are numbers he's doing with a mediocre PASS BLOCKING line that has given up 56 SACKS THIS YEAR.

Tannehil's metric has gone up since he's been paired with a decent run attack. He can throw

So if anybody doesn't think the Cowboys have options in changing QBs with this RG, they are delusional. And if anybody doesn't think Dak's success isn't part of the greatness of Zeke, they are delusional

 

[Sydla]

The Titans were struggling period with Mariotta and Henry.

The Titans were average with Mariotta as QB. They added Tannehill, who was having a mediocre career, and since he's had this RG, he's been at the top of the league in QB play. This man is throwing at 70% at 22 TDs and only 7 INTs and unlike Dak, these are numbers he's doing with a mediocre PASS BLOCKING line that has given up 56 SACKS THIS YEAR.

Tannehil's metric has gone up since he's been paired with a decent run attack. He can throw

So if anybody doesn't think the Cowboys have options in changing QBs with this RG, they are delusional. And if anybody doesn't think Dak's success isn't part of the greatness of Zeke, they are delusional

Delusional is thinking that Elliott is somehow some transcendent TB that you can basically plug in anyone at QB and we'd roll.

 

[khiladi]

Delusional is thinking that Elliott is somehow some transcendent TB that you can basically plug in anyone at QB and we'd roll.

I don't think that, as is evidenced by Dak.

It's also the same as Henry, as is evidenced by Mariotta.

But even Mariotta had no pass blocking. Dak isn't afforded that excuse.

The RG is supposed to grant you certain looks, which is what it does, whether in Dallas or in Tennessee. Defenses fear both.

In 2015, defenses didn't care about our rushing attack even with the yards we ran. They didn't need to stack boxes.

 

[Aviano90]

Henry is demanding 9 man fronts in Tennessee and still gashing the hell out of them bro.

He faces many more stacked boxes than Zeke does. Baltimore is one of the best defenses in the league and had 8-9 man boxes on 63% of Henry's runs this past weekend. Henry still gashed them.

 

[G2]

The advantage Elliott has is he's been pretty consistent for 4 seasons. On the field, he's only missed games they rested him. And, they extended his contract early. If Henry is somehow this Ninja RB, he'll be paid more.