Making sense of LB at 17

cnuball21 · Apr 19, 2020

I've been pretty vocal about thinking an off ball LBr at 17 would be a bad move unless we know LVE has more serious injury concerns than we're aware of. Saw an interesting tweet from someone that covers the Cowboys today (Jeff C.) that got me thinking. He references Murray but you could also insert Queen or Baun's name as well.

"If they pick Kenneth Murray you'd know 1 or 2 or 3 of the following:

1) Buyer's remorse on a certain contract
2) Worries about LVE neck
3) More multiple fronts

Baun's one of my top targets at 17 as I think he's the 2nd best rusher in the class, but just curious what others think about our situation at LBr. Has anyone heard anything on LVE?

fivetwos · Apr 19, 2020

4) Sean Lee has about 8 more games left in his career

Taking an LB because its BPA makes plenty of sense to me.

cnuball21 · Apr 19, 2020

fivetwos said:
4) Sean Lee has about 8 more games left in his career

Taking an LB because its BPA makes plenty of sense to me.

True...but the 3rd LBr in our defense has traditionally only been on the field for a lower percentage of snaps. If you're referencing playing more multiple fronts than we either need to draft someone who can also rush the passer or we look at Jaylon going into that role.

stilltheguru · Apr 19, 2020

Its interesting that off ball linebackers are so much more appreciated than running backs. But if you look around the league they are similar positions. Many mid round linebackers are pro bowlers. Why do people think we have to take that position so early? Its the same as running back to me and Murray isnt Zeke so nah. Murray....malik harrison.....meh

cnuball21 · Apr 19, 2020

stilltheguru said:
Its interesting that off ball linebackers are so much more appreciated than running backs. But if you look around the league they are similar positions. Many mid round linebackers are pro bowlers. Why do people think we have to take that position so early? Its the same as running back to me and Murray isnt Zeke so nah. Murray....malik harrison.....meh

This is why drafting one so early is not my preference. I'd rather target Wilson or Brooks in the 3rd/4th.

Dylan88Wilson · Apr 19, 2020

Even if all three are true, you can make the case Willie Gay Jr. is the best LB in the draft. If you aren’t afraid of his red flags, you can get him in the 3rd or 4th. I’d much rather go that route.

cnuball21 · Apr 19, 2020

Dylan88Wilson said:
Even if all three are true, you can make the case Willie Gay Jr. is the best LB in the draft. If you aren’t afraid of his red flags, you can get him in the 3rd or 4th. I’d much rather go that route.

I think there's too much risk with him to take him as early as the 3rd, but agree with looking at a mid rounder to develop or plug in as I think Joe Thomas is servicable.

CalPolyTechnique · Apr 19, 2020

I’d advocated for Murray, but Gay Jr., Logan Wilson, Brooks are all fine as well.

Linebacker is a position of need as far as I’m concerned. I have zero confidence is Jaylon as a 3-down player; LVE’s immediate and long term future is in question; Lee is 34; Gifford is an unknown; and the rest of the guys are solid depth.

cnuball21 · Apr 19, 2020

CalPolyTechnique said:
I’d advocated for Murray, but Gay Jr., Logan Wilson, Brooks are all fine as well.

Linebacker is a position of need as far as I’m concerned. I have zero confidence is Jaylon as a 3-down player; LVE’s immediate and long term future is in question; Lee is 34; Gifford is an unknown; and the rest of the guys are solid depth.

I think Smith is arguably the most overrated player on the team...we might agree on something. Just curious what you don't like about him?

fivetwos · Apr 19, 2020

cnuball21 said:
True...but the 3rd LBr in our defense has traditionally only been on the field for a lower percentage of snaps. If you're referencing playing more multiple fronts than we either need to draft someone who can also rush the passer or we look at Jaylon going into that role.

All I'm saying is dont pass on a higher rated LB for a lower rated CB.

cnuball21 · Apr 19, 2020

fivetwos said:
All I'm saying is dont pass on a higher rated LB for a lower rated CB.

I wouldn't, but outside of Baun I don't have a higher rated LBr than CBs like Fulton or Terrell.

fivetwos · Apr 19, 2020

cnuball21 said:
I wouldn't, but outside of Baun I don't have a higher rated LBr than CBs like Fulton or Terrell.

Nothing wrong with that. The teams board may be different.

Doesnt mean they are right. All of these dudes are crapshoots because a whole other list of variables is introduced once they are drafted and get into a brand new situation.

Corner is a desperate need. Anyone can see that, but I hope they dont leave a higher graded player on the board for one, even if it's an OT.

cnuball21 · Apr 19, 2020

fivetwos said:
Nothing wrong with that. The teams board may be different.

Doesnt mean they are right. All of these dudes are crapshoots because a whole other list of variables is introduced once they are drafted and get into a brand new situation.

Corner is a desperate need. Anyone can see that, but I hope they dont leave a higher graded player on the board for one, even if it's an OT.

Im all about BPA but at position of need. I don’t think I could get behind OT at 17 since we have 2 pro bow caliber players under 30. Someone would have to tell me there are serious health concerns for Smith.

fivetwos · Apr 19, 2020

cnuball21 said:
Im all about BPA but at position of need. I don’t think I could get behind OT at 17 since we have 2 pro bow caliber players under 30. Someone would have to tell me there are serious health concerns for Smith.

You also dont know what may happen.

Would it shock you if Smith hurt his back again in camp and decided to hang it up at some point in the next year? Top 10 LTs dont fall in your lap every year, but one did at 17, but they passed because corner was a bigger need, and that guy cant get on the field because he didnt pan out.

Now, no one knows who will bust and who wont, but needs change all the time. Who would have guessed two months ago Dallas was considering a center in round one this year?

Just take the higher rated player is all I'm saying. Better chance they dont bust.

Cowboyny · Apr 19, 2020

I was probably the biggest supporter of drafting Lve two years ago cause the team just couldn't hold their breath every time Lee came off the field. He had some medical concerns heading into the draft with stingers. Missed several games in college, but came back to full strength and had a tremendous final season. It is my understanding this is the same injury and is expected to make a full receovery.

In my opinion, all this LB interest has enough to do having a backup plan for Lve's health. It is more about being able to field multiple fronts. If Jaylon becomes more of a rusher, somebody needs to play off the ball, if they run some 3-4, they need more linebackers, etc.

beware_d-ware · Apr 19, 2020

I'd agree with Cavanaugh's take. Drafting Murray at #17 means bad news, even though I like the player.

Man, I wish LVE could stay healthy. Dude is the absolute perfect modern day linebacker.

cnuball21 · Apr 19, 2020

fivetwos said:
You also dont know what may happen.

Would it shock you if Smith hurt his back again in camp and decided to hang it up at some point in the next year? Top 10 LTs dont fall in your lap every year, but one did at 17, but they passed because corner was a bigger need, and that guy cant get on the field because he didnt pan out.

Now, no one knows who will bust and who wont, but needs change all the time. Who would have guessed two months ago Dallas was considering a center in round one this year?

Just take the higher rated player is all I'm saying. Better chance they dont bust.

So would you draft a QB or RB at 17 if it was BPA bc anything can happen? I get what you're saying...but disagree.

cnuball21 · Apr 19, 2020

beware_d-ware said:
I'd agree with Cavanaugh's take. Drafting Murray at #17 means bad news, even though I like the player.

Man, I wish LVE could stay healthy. Dude is the absolute perfect modern day linebacker.

I thought LVE was a slight reach when we took him but was ok with the pick. If he can stay healthy and bounce back to being the all pro he was, he should've been drafted top 10.

Like you mentioned, he's the perfect modern day MIKE.

If he's not healthy...I don't like Murray as a replacement at all. He's best suited for WILL and his instincts worry me. Draft Wilson or Brooks mid round.

reddyuta · Apr 19, 2020

imo no off the ball LB is worth a 1st Rd pick unless they have serious wow factor and talent like Simmons.

cowboyec · Apr 19, 2020

I still say if we draft Murray or Queen in rd1....it has everything to do with new dc Mike Nolan and what he intends to do on that side of the ball....and less with LVE.

Making sense of LB at 17

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